My journey into 4-SF - Dexfield GWR 30's ish

[MikeH_83]

I thought it was about time to start sharing my project on here,  I have been and will continue to document it on my YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/MrVenrith) but it would be nice to show off progress I make here for those that don't use YouTube and for general smaller things as I go along.  This is my first layout since having a unfinished one 20 odd years ago when I was a teenager.  I have built the fiddleyard already and used a 2ft radius with peco flexitrack as the entrance to it and all peco code 75 trackwork within the fiddleyard itself.  That is all wired up using megapoints for the point control.  I am then left with a U shape consisting of roughly 29ft length and 3ft wide.  Control method is currently using a Digikeijs DR5000 using a mix of computer control, Z21 app and various wireless controllers.

 

I have decided finally that my layout will be a countryside single track line with a passing station and a goods area at the top end and at the bottom I will have an industry which I have yet to design the track plan for, But that can come later!  I know it might not offer as much running potential as a big mainline type layout but having grew up going to many preserved railways I think the whole single track line running through the countryside has stuck with me.  This also allows me to build the layout and hopefully complete it within a reasonable timeframe and to see how 4-SF works and how durable hand built track is (More on that below)  I am not sure where to set this layout yet, I would prefer somewhere midlands or further south but I do like LNER, LMS and Southern loco's so for now I am working towards that.  Timeframe is also something I am torn between, I am currently trying to decide between 30's, early 50's or 60's (for the steam and diesel traction)

 

I have decided to handbuild all my trackwork (which I might regret later) to 4-SF,  This should provide some nice running whilst not having to play about too much with wheelsets.  I am going with functional chairs and ply sleepers,  I decided on using 3-bolt AS1 chairs because although I cannot 100% decide on a location and timeframe it at least covers more bases and to be honest most people probably won't look that closely. 

 

 

 

This is the current track plan,  At the bottom of the picture you can see where the line to the industry will run,  I have yet to design this.  The headshunt for the goods yard might also need extending but I can do that later.  This is the final plan though as a whole as I have been playing about with ideas for years and I really need to start!  Also I have printed off the track plan and placed it all down on cork now ready for track building.

 

This is the bottom end of the trackplan as it exits the fiddleyard, Also this is where the industry will go as I have a little more space to use in front of the fiddleyard access area.

 

I have dropped the boards quite low for this section (I couldn't do that everywhere due to things underneath and other obstacles.  I know open frame might have been easier but oh well..  Either way this should allow me to do some interesting scenics!

 

This is the station and goods area,  Might be a little difficult to see from this angle but the station will hold a large train and 4 coaches I think.  Also ignore the incline.. that was for another idea I had awhile ago that didn't pan out!

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by MikeH_83
title rename

[Captain Kernow]

This sounds very interesting and the best of luck with the project, but I'm not sure what '4-SF' is?

[MikeH_83]

This sounds very interesting and the best of luck with the project, but I'm not sure what '4-SF' is?

 

Thanks very much,  4-SF is basically a narrower version of 00,  It allows slightly better running characteristics and smaller gaps at the common crossing on points.  From the testing iv'e done it seems to work well and others have had no issues so I thought I would give it a go  

[Junctionmad]

4-SF Is it's Templot designation , it's more commonly called 00-SF

[Captain Kernow]

4-SF Is it's Templot designation , it's more commonly called 00-SF

Ah, that explains it!

 

Doing a little project along those lines myself.

[MikeH_83]

Well most of today has been spent playing with my proxxon table saw,  First cutting up some 1.5mm birch plywood into strips and then into individual sleepers..  It took awhile   Not entirely finished but gives me a good head start.

 

 

Thanks to Gordon S for the tip on making up a guide for the table saw for quickly setting up cutting widths,  I made this one up in templot and works like a charm!

 

My last bit was trying out some wilko's Jacobean dark oak wood dye on some to try and get the right colour..  I am not sure but I am thinking about either number 5 or 6 (around the middle of those if you can't read my tiny writing) is not far off, especially once you factor in a general weathering once laid down and ballasted.

[martin_wynne]

4-SF Is it's Templot designation , it's more commonly called 00-SF

 

It was 00-SF in Templot too. In fact it was yours truly who originally coined the 00-SF designation (for "special fine"). There wasn't room on the Templot menu for its original name "EM minus 2".

 

I changed it to 4-SF because there was so much heat (here on RMweb, nowhere else) that 00 could only mean 16.5mm, and 16.2mm wasn't it.

 

Now that so many have tried it and found that it works fine, things have cooled down a bit. I originally proved that it works in 1974 and supplied pointwork built to it, but it takes a week or two for ideas to be accepted in this hobby.

 

Martin.

[polybear]

My last bit was trying out some wilko's Jacobean dark oak wood dye on some to try and get the right colour..  I am not sure but I am thinking about either number 5 or 6 (around the middle of those if you can't read my tiny writing) is not far off, especially once you factor in a general weathering once laid down and ballasted.

 

Hi,

 

Just a couple of thoughts:

 

1. It may be worth (after it's fully dried) checking that the wood dye doesn't unduly affect the ability to obtain a strong bond between chair and sleeper.  You won't be a happy bunny if all that cutting work goes to waste..... 

 

2. Your photos suggest not much in the way of bracing beneath the baseboards to prevent warping.  If this is the case may I suggest adding some before going further, especially with the large temperature variations experienced in a loft?

 

HTH

Brian

[MikeH_83]

Hi,

 

Just a couple of thoughts:

 

1. It may be worth (after it's fully dried) checking that the wood dye doesn't unduly affect the ability to obtain a strong bond between chair and sleeper.  You won't be a happy bunny if all that cutting work goes to waste..... 

 

2. Your photos suggest not much in the way of bracing beneath the baseboards to prevent warping.  If this is the case may I suggest adding some before going further, especially with the large temperature variations experienced in a loft?

 

HTH

Brian

 

Thanks Brian,  Good points,  I shall stick some down tonight and test it!  It should work as others have used wilko's dye before but like you say, better safe than sorry.  I did wonder if that was enough supports or not.. It's 9mm ply and seems ok at the moment but I can certainly add a few more to be on the safe side.

 

Cheers

[polybear]

Thanks Brian,  Good points,  I shall stick some down tonight and test it!  It should work as others have used wilko's dye before but like you say, better safe than sorry.  I did wonder if that was enough supports or not.. It's 9mm ply and seems ok at the moment but I can certainly add a few more to be on the safe side.

 

Cheers

 

The norm is to have some battening (or strips of ply on edge) beneath the baseboards, both lengthwise and crosswise - a quick search on RMweb should give some more info.

[Junctionmad]

The norm is to have some battening (or strips of ply on edge) beneath the baseboards, both lengthwise and crosswise - a quick search on RMweb should give some more info.

Use ply as the strengthening ribs. Otherwise you end up with the ply stabilising the 2x1 .

[Junctionmad]

Well most of today has been spent playing with my proxxon table saw, First cutting up some 1.5mm birch plywood into strips and then into individual sleepers.. It took awhile Not entirely finished but gives me a good head start.

 

IMG_20180120_130225.jpg

 

IMG_20180120_130231.jpg

Thanks to Gordon S for the tip on making up a guide for the table saw for quickly setting up cutting widths, I made this one up in templot and works like a charm!

 

IMG_20180121_114905.jpg

My last bit was trying out some wilko's Jacobean dark oak wood dye on some to try and get the right colour.. I am not sure but I am thinking about either number 5 or 6 (around the middle of those if you can't read my tiny writing) is not far off, especially once you factor in a general weathering once laid down and ballasted.

Personally , I don't think staining looks great , the ply grain is nothing like the original sleeper , I airbrush mine post construction Edited January 23, 2018 by Junctionmad

[MikeH_83]

Personally , I don't think staining looks great , the ply grain is nothing like the original sleeper , I airbrush mine post construction

 

I can see where your coming from,  But wouldn't airbrushing just hide the fact your using actual wood?  I must admit a post all over blast with an airbrush would be alot quicker and easier..  What colour do you use?  Do you have any pictures of the final result? 

 

Cheers

[hayfield]

I use an old can of Colron spirit based stain Not dye, thinned 50/50 with white spirit. If the ply is of good quality the stain takes well and you will subtle variation of colour, how much of that is retained once the ballast has been painted and the whole lot weathered is down to how thick the weathering is laid.

 

Be careful as some dyes have a waxy finish which repels the solvent used to stick the chairs.

 

If using plastic flexi track just use the same paint on both 

[dasatcopthorne]

Hi Mike.

 

Good to see someone else having a go at 00-SF/4-SF.

 

For sleepers I 'stain' them with diluted Precision Weathered Wood. Paint + about 25% thinners.

 

If you haven't already spotted it, 'Falcon Road TMD' etc., etc in this forum is built to 00-SF.

 

A few pics of trackwork in there.

 

Dave

[Junctionmad]

I can see where your coming from,  But wouldn't airbrushing just hide the fact your using actual wood?  I must admit a post all over blast with an airbrush would be alot quicker and easier..  What colour do you use?  Do you have any pictures of the final result? 

 

Cheers

Because I use RTR plain track , mixed with 00-Sf on ply points , I'm actually trying to disguise the ply . I'll post some pics soon as I'm laying track at present

[MikeH_83]

Hi Mike.

 

Good to see someone else having a go at 00-SF/4-SF.

 

For sleepers I 'stain' them with diluted Precision Weathered Wood. Paint + about 25% thinners.

 

If you haven't already spotted it, 'Falcon Road TMD' etc., etc in this forum is built to 00-SF.

 

A few pics of trackwork in there.

 

Dave

Thanks,  Might give that a go!  I shall order some of their paint and thinners as yours look good.

 

Because I use RTR plain track , mixed with 00-Sf on ply points , I'm actually trying to disguise the ply . I'll post some pics soon as I'm laying track at present

Ah I see, Yeah I am trying to keep the "wood" effect as much as possible myself.

[MikeH_83]

Well after trying a few different combinations I finally decided on using Colron Jacobean dark oak wood dye.  I have given these 1 coat so far, I think they need a few more..

[MikeH_83]

Hi all,
So it has been a long time since I updated this post so I thought I'd share some progress I have made, If you can call it that!  I have cut every single sleeper out from sheets of ply and threaded every chair on.  The only RTR is the fiddleyard track and points, Everything else is 4-SF/00-SF.

 

 

Still plenty more to do on the layout and trains run on 2 sides of the layout, Currently in the process of wiring up the station area

 

 

[MikeH_83]

Well I had made pretty good progress albeit very slowly.  I managed to complete the loop with everything on the scenic part using fully chaired trackwork to 00-SF standards.  I have ran a veriety of trains over it and everything has ran fine,  Infact I am very impressed with it especially over the curved points.  However after a long think I have found myself loosing interest over teh current track plan, it's quite basic and I think I want something abit more interesting to operate and watch.  So I am considering starting again!  (eek)  So I have attached a track plan I have been working on which is making me abit more excited compared to the current one.   So the idea is a double track mainline with a station and a slow goods passing loop on the clockwise track.  Then there is a branch line which goes into a 3rd platform which also helps with a nice bit of off main goods shunting.  I have added a very small industry on the L/H side but that is starting to look abit cluttered around there so I might make that on the branch line on the button section.  I have keps the main running lines at a scale 8ft distance (because of my curves which go down to 3ft radius) made it 9ft between the main and the slow goods passing loop and then 10ft between the main and the line which forms the goods yard/3rd platform section.  Anyway I would appreciate any comments and suggestions on the plans,  I am aiming for quite realstic but maybe with a bit of modellers licence to have abit more fun with watching/playing.  The bit going into the fiddleyard I will open up to 00 so I can get some tighter curves to try and eek out as much fiddleyard space as I can (5-6 lines for each direction on the main)

 

Thanks

[MikeH_83]

Having been playing with the track plan some more and nudging some timbers I can say I am almost done.  Here it is in pretty much final form apart from the entrance to the fiddleyard as I am trying to work out how tight I can get away with those curves to maximise on storage space.  I'm just not sure on the lye-by or the little industry placement atm so any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.  Cheers

[MikeH_83]

Well I have made the decision to change the layout so I can get more enjoyment out of it long term.  So I have been ripping up the old 00-SF trackwork...  (let's hope I don't regret that decision lol)

[MikeH_83]

Well I have spent some time ripping out all my old trackwork and altering baseboards for this new trackwork (except I have ran out of 9mm birch ply and the cost of it is astrominical at the mo)

So after laying out the trackwork on the new baseboards I have came to abit of a dilemma, The Lye-By for the slow goods as shown between the blue and orange circle is currently 6ft in length which visually looks quite small and was hoping for it to be a tad longer, however I don't want to extend it further south because I would like to leave some space there. So a few options for me..



1) Leave as is, Only stopping any goods trains that are 6ft or less in length (as most will be anyway bar 1)
2) Remove the blue set of points and have trains reverse in.. This means they would pass the signal at the end of the station and be half on that curve heading into the fiddleyard before reversing for that 1 long goods train. (Not sure how that works with signalling)
3)Move the orange set of points back 1ft and remove the blue points to increase it to 7ft in length and have the length from orange points to end of the platforms be 7ft

Given the fact that my fiddleyard space is limited im slightly inclined to go with option 1 or 2 and just run more smaller goods trains but sometimes its nice to get the opinions of those more experienced with railways in the real or model form.

This will be set in GWR (with probably some lms or lner or southern mixed in at times for shared running veriety)

Cheers

Edited October 4, 2022 by MikeH_83

[MikeH_83]

So I have made some progress so far,  I have started the handbuilt trackwork into the station and the entrance to the fiddleyard. (I'll get some photos posted at a later date)  Right now having almost finalised the track plan I am torn between a couple of ideas.  My issue is with the bottom part of the layout,  On my original plan I have the branch following the mainline albeit rising on a slight gradient, However I feel like it follows the mainline abit too much and makes it look abit more "trainsetty" Anyway I have been looking at a couple of alternatives.  The first is to retain a long branch line and have the mainline enter a tunnel and run behind the backscene on that bottom length.  I am however slightly concerned about any derailments and unexpected uncoupling because the roof slopes down quite harsly that side and there is not much room to get in if something happens.  The other plan is to do away with a long branch so I would lose that nice single line through the countryside however I do gain abit of a junction where it meets the branch (the side of this could be swapped) and I could make more of an industry where the branch left the station if I wanted.

[MikeH_83]

I have been playing the junction idea,  I decided to try removing the straight section on the left side and replace that with a sweeping curve.  What do you think?  From the junction and into coming out of the bay platform would be a single slip which I am guessing would be ok for connecting to a mainline as its not facing?