3d printed GWR coaches - something big...a D51

[The Great Bear]

I thought I try getting something printed using the 3D Hubs network. Rather than a single manufacturer like Shapeways it is a collection of small printing companies or individuals all over the world, prices vary depending on the supplier, you pick whichever one takes your fancy. I went for a resin print and took a punt on a chap in China(!)...

 

Here's the bare model as received:

 

Under the corners of the door grab handles you can see a small bit of surplus material, what I assume is the support material, remaining.

 

Here it is following removal of these with a knife (as usual with me perhaps a bit more finesse and thoroughness wouldn't go amiss!) and a spray of grey primer:

 

 

 

 

Some of the handles still need a little bit of tidying up it can be seen in this view

 

Overall I am pleasantly surprised with it - it was a punt. There is good detail and defnition to edges, again may have overdone the primer a bit, and generally no signs of stepping on the sides of the model unlike the Shapeways FUD.Even with shipping from China (DHL took 3 or so days), it came to $60, so £42, hence about 1/2 the price of Shapeways FUD. This may just be lucky this one and I am not sure how 3d Hubs works if the print isn't up to expectations, they do seem to offer some protection.

 

The best so far, I think, so I will try another print of something else from this supplier, including maybe the interiors.

 

All the best

 

Jon

[Denbridge]

I thought I try getting something printed using the 3D Hubs network. Rather than a single manufacturer like Shapeways it is a collection of small printing companies or individuals all over the world, prices vary depending on the supplier, you pick whichever one takes your fancy. I went for a resin print and took a punt on a chap in China(!)...

 

Here's the bare model as received:

 

Under the corners of the door grab handles you can see a small bit of surplus material, what I assume is the support material, remaining.

 

Here it is following removal of these with a knife (as usual with me perhaps a bit more finesse and thoroughness wouldn't go amiss!) and a spray of grey primer:

 

 

 

 

Some of the handles still need a little bit of tidying up it can be seen in this view

 

Overall I am pleasantly surprised with it - it was a punt. There is good detail and defnition to edges, again may have overdone the primer a bit, and generally no signs of stepping on the sides of the model unlike the Shapeways FUD.Even with shipping from China (DHL took 3 or so days), it came to $60, so £42, hence about 1/2 the price of Shapeways FUD. This may just be lucky this one and I am not sure how 3d Hubs works if the print isn't up to expectations, they do seem to offer some protection.

 

The best so far, I think, so I will try another print of something else from this supplier, including maybe the interiors.

 

All the best

 

Jon

leaving off the handles and grabrails would improve things no end. The finished coach would also look much better with these as seperate fittings.

[The Great Bear]

leaving off the handles and grabrails would improve things no end. The finished coach would also look much better with these as seperate fittings.

I do have some Commet or Roxey mouldings etched parts for the "commode" handles. I'm not convinced as to their looks, two dimensional. Are there any cast alternatives?

[sem34090]

The Printed ones look fine - they stand proud and don't look moulded. They also look more 3D than etched ones.

[MGR Hooper!]

I thought I try getting something printed using the 3D Hubs network. Rather than a single manufacturer like Shapeways it is a collection of small printing companies or individuals all over the world, prices vary depending on the supplier, you pick whichever one takes your fancy. I went for a resin print and took a punt on a chap in China(!)...

 

Here's the bare model as received:

 

Under the corners of the door grab handles you can see a small bit of surplus material, what I assume is the support material, remaining.

 

Here it is following removal of these with a knife (as usual with me perhaps a bit more finesse and thoroughness wouldn't go amiss!) and a spray of grey primer:

 

 

 

 

Some of the handles still need a little bit of tidying up it can be seen in this view

 

Overall I am pleasantly surprised with it - it was a punt. There is good detail and defnition to edges, again may have overdone the primer a bit, and generally no signs of stepping on the sides of the model unlike the Shapeways FUD.Even with shipping from China (DHL took 3 or so days), it came to $60, so £42, hence about 1/2 the price of Shapeways FUD. This may just be lucky this one and I am not sure how 3d Hubs works if the print isn't up to expectations, they do seem to offer some protection.

 

The best so far, I think, so I will try another print of something else from this supplier, including maybe the interiors.

 

All the best

 

Jon

This 3D print is the best I've seen that's commercially available to the majority at an affordable price. I needed to get a few parts resin cast. Would you kindly help me with a link to the website and possibly the guy who did this 3D print for you?

[sem34090]

Is it possible for you to leave us a link? I could do with cheap prints at that price.

[MGR Hooper!]

I found this, hope this is what Jon was referring to - https://www.3dhubs.com/ 

 

Once you upload, you're flooded with potential 3D Printing Companies. I just found 3 suppliers from China that have quoted a price ranging from $28 to $34 (before shipping) for a full HO scale DEMU Powercar body and chassis. And by the looks of it, their quality is absolutely superb. All 3 of the Chinese firms has SLA/resin that looked very much like what Jon received.

[sem34090]

I'll need to investigate that for the future - the resin looks to be able to go down pretty thin as well.

[MGR Hooper!]

I'll need to investigate that for the future - the resin looks to be able to go down pretty thin as well.

Yes 0.5mm as I read it. I will however keep it at 0.7mm for sturdiness. Quite amazed. Next week I shall place an order for one of my upcoming RTR models. I'll get a few 3D prints to use as resin masters so that I can portray one loco in 3 different variations.

[The Great Bear]

I found this, hope this is what Jon was referring to - https://www.3dhubs.com/

 

Once you upload, you're flooded with potential 3D Printing Companies. I just found 3 suppliers from China that have quoted a price ranging from $28 to $34 (before shipping) for a full HO scale DEMU Powercar body and chassis. And by the looks of it, their quality is absolutely superb. All 3 of the Chinese firms has SLA/resin that looked very much like what Jon received.

Yes that's it. The chap I used was called Ivan. He offered two print resolutions, I paid extra to get thw finer of the two, 50 microns. There was another hub similar price but shipping costs a bit opaque whereas the one I used it was given upfront.

 

A word of caution, the headline price I think is a guide, some suppliers, when you select them the price varies. In any case what happens is you get a quote to accept and proceed or not.

 

Bear in mind only used this once, so I am slightly tempering my enthusiasm until do another one or two.

 

Good luck with it

 

Jon

Edited April 19, 2018 by The Great Bear

[The Great Bear]

Yes 0.5mm as I read it. I will however keep it at 0.7mm for sturdiness. Quite amazed. Next week I shall place an order for one of my upcoming RTR models. I'll get a few 3D prints to use as resin masters so that I can portray one loco in 3 different variations.

 

I think that bit extra is prudent. I had to change a bit of my design, the cables at the end were originally separated from the body, hanging down but the supplier said was too thin so changed design so they are moulded to the ends, hardly noticeable I hope and no different from say Slaters kits. He did say that 1mm thickness was preferred. Bits of my coach are thinner than this, off hand I think locally down to 0.8mm behind the droplights but the walls below the windows are twice as thick to give decent rigidity to the model. The model feels a lot more rigid than ones done in say FUD.

[MGR Hooper!]

Yes that's it. The chap I used was called Ivan. He offered two print resolutions, I paid extra to get thw finer of the two, 50 microns. There was another hub similar price but shipping costs a bit opaque whereas the one I used it was given upfront.

 

A word of caution, the headline price I think is a guide, some suppliers, when you select them the price varies. In any case what happens is you get a quote to accept and proceed or not.

 

Bear in mind only used this once, so I am slightly tempering my enthusiasm until do another one or two.

 

Good luck with it

 

Jon

My next step would've been to actually inquire about the shipping costs. Ivan was one of the companies that showed up in my list the other one was called Adam.

I think that bit extra is prudent. I had to change a bit of my design, the cables at the end were originally separated from the body, hanging down but the supplier said was too thin so changed design so they are moulded to the ends, hardly noticeable I hope and no different from say Slaters kits. He did say that 1mm thickness was preferred. Bits of my coach are thinner than this, off hand I think locally down to 0.8mm behind the droplights but the walls below the windows are twice as thick to give decent rigidity to the model. The model feels a lot more rigid than ones done in say FUD.

1.0mm was a little too thick for me, I'll reduce it to 0.8mm and save a copy of both. If he wants 1.0mm I shall send that to him.

[Knuckles]

Coach does look great.

 

Be careful of 3D Hubs.

 

I tried to get something printed ages ago, the guide price was way cheaper than the quoted price so I declined.

 

Then a year or so later Quarryscapes found a DIFFERENT hub with a picture of my mesh on his front page.

 

When I contacted him he gave me a load of gob and said a guy asked him to print it (but he never did...yeah right) and he wouldn't tell me who. Support wouldn't help me either due to their privacy policy crap.

 

So they are not against stealing meshes, internally trading and basically caution is advised.

 

Not saying don't use them yet I am saying it isn't all good.

 

As a first impression I'm put off.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Knuckles

[rue_d_etropal]

Although it has not happened to me, one reason I went with Shapeways was that it was relatively well established. You never know what some of these small outfits are like, and whether they will be there next year. There have been predictions of 3D print shops on the high street, but nothing yet. Something based on what Modelu is doing could work. It is not just model making, but a lot of other small items that people often want(weg replacements for parts , now broken, but could easily be 3D printed).

[Knuckles]

I've seen a 3D printing shop in Reading and went in......but it didn't last long.

[The Great Bear]

I ordered some more prints from the same source, I tried the lower 100 micron resolution.


 

 

This was around 1/2 the price for the print, but clearly not as good. Some details on the side haven't printed, the lower row of door hinges and the door stops. Banding on the end is a lot more visible. Little bits of styrene strip can fix the missing hinges, if I can be bothered.

 

I am experimenting with the grab handles, the holes are to receive ones printed in Shapeways FUD. So whilst the print is not as good as the last one worth continuing to see how this comes together. 

[MGR Hooper!]

I ordered some more prints from the same source, I tried the lower 100 micron resolution.

 

 

 

This was around 1/2 the price for the print, but clearly not as good. Some details on the side haven't printed, the lower row of door hinges and the door stops. Banding on the end is a lot more visible. Little bits of styrene strip can fix the missing hinges, if I can be bothered.

 

I am experimenting with the grab handles, the holes are to receive ones printed in Shapeways FUD. So whilst the print is not as good as the last one worth continuing to see how this comes together. 

@TGB

 

This print also looks really good! I must say that it's still far superior than Shapeways' FUD which seems to have more pronounced printing lines. I know it's not as good as the first but it's still quite a bit better that Shapeways' FUD.

 

My better half is currently finalizing the CAD work for our models and we'll also have a couple of models printed. Our intentions however are to use them as masters to resin cast parts.

[Harlequin]

Hi TGB,

 

It's really encouraging to see your persistence paying off. The 50micron prints look very good and, as has been said, even the 100 micron look better than previous Shapeways examples.

 

Do you know why the new prints are better? Do they have better printers? Better materials?

 

Keep up the good work and be extra careful with the painting!

[The Great Bear]

Hi TGB,

 

It's really encouraging to see your persistence paying off. The 50micron prints look very good and, as has been said, even the 100 micron look better than previous Shapeways examples.

 

Do you know why the new prints are better? Do they have better printers? Better materials?

 

Keep up the good work and be extra careful with the painting!

 

Thank you. The prints from 3d hubs are in resin which is a completley different material and process as I understand it  from anything Shapeways offers. (iMaterialise do offer a resin and the print quality is good, but their design restrictions are too conservative, 1mm wall thickness is too chunky.)

[Edwardian]

This is fascinating.

 

While happy with the quality of Shapeways FUD - though in practice the prices limit my purchases to few and far between at present - Sem of this parish produced a G6 loco body, which I believe was printed by Immaterialise in resin.  That looked superb.  It was also more economical.

 

Immaterialise are conservative - I only got the model I wanted from them by choosing the 'print at your own risk' option; it came out fine. I note that their resin is not an option for Great Bear's coach because of the minimum 1mm depth required. Pity.

 

Great Bear, that panelled toplight van third is among the best I have seen.  It is a good balance of finish, detail and price.  I am persuaded by it.

 

The only compromise is the thickness of the walls.  That is clearly necessary, but does raise the issue of whether flush glazing needs to be developed 'for best results'.

 

I have a prejudice against moulded in grab handles, stemming from Ratio coach kits.  However, the separately fitted brass ones on a Ratio coach with a replacement brass sides do not look that convincing either, as they are flat.

 

Looking closely at yours, I was very impressed to see that the grab handles had daylight behind them across the recessed portions of the body.  I suspect the thickness is over-scale, but there has to be a point of compromise, and this looks better, to me, than either the moulded on ones used with injection moulding or the flat brass ones applied separately, so this was a very nice touch.

 

Another impressive feature is the rounded edge that you can give to beading and bolections, which cannot be achieved in etched brass.  

 

I realise that this is a test piece, but if you can consistently achieve the balance of finish, detail and price that this piece represents, I think you are on to a winner.

 

PS: BTW, I am interested in mist types of GW coaches, but steel bodied toplights, including 70's, have been some of the least well-represented types, even in kit form.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Edwardian

[rovex]

I ordered some more prints from the same source, I tried the lower 100 micron resolution.

 

 

 

This was around 1/2 the price for the print, but clearly not as good. Some details on the side haven't printed, the lower row of door hinges and the door stops. Banding on the end is a lot more visible. Little bits of styrene strip can fix the missing hinges, if I can be bothered.

 

I am experimenting with the grab handles, the holes are to receive ones printed in Shapeways FUD. So whilst the print is not as good as the last one worth continuing to see how this comes together. 

 

Could you deal with the window thickness by putting a rebate behind the windows to receive the glazing?

 

Even if this meant cutting individual glazing for each window it should allow some further refinement.

 

Impressive work though

[rovex]

One further thought, but about grab handles this time.

 

I've always wondered whether it would be a difficult thing to make up a "former" to bend some decent grade brass wire around. This would get away from the flat look that comes with brass, and also give the better impression that comes from having spearately fitted handles. 

 

Rovex

[Harlequin]

Thank you. The prints from 3d hubs are in resin which is a completley different material and process as I understand it  from anything Shapeways offers. (iMaterialise do offer a resin and the print quality is good, but their design restrictions are too conservative, 1mm wall thickness is too chunky.)

 

My understanding was that both your new 3DHubs prints and the Shapeways FUD process were SLA, additive StereoLithography - curing liquid photosensitive resin using light.

(See: https://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/30761-materials-explainer-3d-printing-frosted-ultra-detail-fud.html )

 

If that's correct then I'm still curious to know why the new prints are so much better than Shapeways...

Edited May 18, 2018 by Harlequin

[Guy Rixon]

I think that Shapeways (or their subcontractors for printing FUD/SFDP) have a problem in the rasterisation of the models: the process that decides the extent of each layer of the resin. This causes patterning on some, but not all, vertical surfaces. Whatever Ivan at 3D Hubs is using, it avoids this problem. It may be to do with the firmware in the printer, or it may be an artefact of the horizontal resolution. Perhaps Ivan has a machine with better horizontal resolution?

[Quarryscapes]

My understanding was that both your new 3DHubs prints and the Shapeways FUD process were SLA, additive StereoLithography - curing liquid photosensitive resin using light.

(See: https://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/30761-materials-explainer-3d-printing-frosted-ultra-detail-fud.html)

 

If that's correct then I'm still curious to know why the new prints are so much better than Shapeways...

 

No, FUD is not SLA, hence why it has major problems from support material destroying what would be on an unsupported surface, an excellent surface finish. Shapeway's DLP material High Def Acrylate was the equivalent of SLA (the DLP - Direct Light Projection-  refers to the fact that the light source is a screen projector below the tank rather than a single point laser being directed by mirrors, which should make each layer print faster than traditional SLA)