The Great Bear Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 With the iMaterialize standard resin, is there any surface-finish degradation beneath overhangs, e.g. on the turn-under of the coach side? I can't see any in the photo above. No, the finish was consistent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Pictures of the samples with a single coat of grey paint (by hand): SLA Nylon raw SLS Nylon factory polished iMaterialise Standard Resin: The single coat of acrylic primer does not cover the resin material well, not helped by my application no doubt! It does show a pattern from the printing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Painted samples: SLS Nylon: SLS Nylon polished iMaterialise standard resin These photos are rather cruel close ups. My rubbish painting rather levels things, whilst the resin is still the best my painting has softened some details, whereas on the other ones to an extent it hides blemishes. Given my painting limitations I am not sure how representative of other's experience with materials? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 As someone who has also done a bit of amateur dabbling with 3D printing, you've managed some very impressive results. For me the thickness of the sides is disappointing but understandable given the limitations of the material. I am however wondering whether a mix of materials may be an answer. I can see a benefit to creating a 3D print underframe, interior and possibly bogies, with an etched brass body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 As someone who has also done a bit of amateur dabbling with 3D printing, you've managed some very impressive results. For me the thickness of the sides is disappointing but understandable given the limitations of the material. I am however wondering whether a mix of materials may be an answer. I can see a benefit to creating a 3D print underframe, interior and possibly bogies, with an etched brass body. Thank you. The thickness is as you say restricted by the materials, the ones above were thickened slightly to work with the resin; with the nylon they could be a little bit thinner. The toplight body shape makes it harder, the paneling (and the droplights for that matter) eat into the sides and the thickness of the walls at the non-door windows is then exaggerated by the bollections. Below are some shots of another test sample, painted more neatly, including using a burgundy porcelain marker pen for the droplights and bollections - whilst not perfect the results are better than my hand painting. The material was SLS nylon polished but with some design changes: adding blobs for the door stops and hande, exaggerating the louvres on the door vents (so now just about visible a tad more perhaps needed) and a punt at adding the "commode" door handles. The latter I think I will drop - whilst not a disaster, they are over-scale of necessity and by the time you've painted them you might as well add the brass parts available from Comet or Roxey mouldings, especially if pilot holes for these are in the model shell. Also the moulded handles smack of Railroad Hornby! On the bottom left of this you can see the panel recess eating into the wall thickness. I reckon I can reduce the depth of the recess for that a bit. Heading in the right direction, but more experimentation needed. Thanks for the interest shown Jon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 The best way to show these prints to compare quality would be a light coat of spray primer. Halfords' own brand is very good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 The best way to show these prints to compare quality would be a light coat of spray primer. Halfords' own brand is very good. Would that be the gray plastic primer or the yellow filler primer? I have tried this but my results were rather hit and miss. Ought to try again with more care. I have a few more samples ordered with design on both sides so double the stuff to practise on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Would that be the gray plastic primer or the yellow filler primer? I have tried this but my results were rather hit and miss. Ought to try again with more care. I have a few more samples ordered with design on both sides so double the stuff to practise on. The ordinary, grey primer, not the filler primer, and put on sparingly. One doesn't want to cover over the details, even - for assessment purposes - the spurious texture in the print. I've heard reports that the filler primer doesn't help much with rough prints anyway. Haven't tried it myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 One thing about aerosol primer paint, the Halfords grey is the best , and is used my many military modellers on a variety of hard to paint plastics. BUT, don't use it on WSF or simlilar. It won;'t do any harm, but it won't do much good. The WSF plastic will absorb everything you can throw at it, and when it dries (eventually) it is very pale grey. Better just to get some decent non clogging sandpaper and take your time . Don't bother with acryllic or enamel paints, just use low cost emulsion paint pots. It works and is far far cheaper. Most colours are available. Unfortunately dark green(BR/GWR) is not, so you will have to mix your own. If you don't want to leave it matt, then just use some gloss varnish(that is acryllic), again available at any DIY store. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 I wasn't particularly pleased with the finished coach, the paint job and the glazing so I stripped the paint and re-did things. The glazing, using much thicker plastic, 0.75mm is much better. My painting is a bit better this time. Things like the door hinges here were bits of platic stut glued on and can be done in the printing I've worked out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
County of Yorkshire Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 One thing you might want to try with painting the droplights and bollections is using the end of cocktail stick, and apply enamel paint sparingly? It will take longer - much longer really - but I think you would get better results as the cocktail stick would give you more control then a brush imo. I'll post a picture of my C30 re-livery project when I can muster up the courage to go into my sub-freezing hobby room! CoY 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted March 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2018 A very brave and well thought through set of projects. Very impressive. As has been said earlier, users will have to come up with their own level of compromise/acceptance on the 1mm min wall thickness: "Do I put up with thicker window apertures and get that (inset drawing number) Open Third of 1912 at last, or do I steadfastly refuse and have nothing?" Personally I am all up for a level of compromise. I think you will always battle to get a good paint finish tho - the samples have all come out with very "lumpy" texture to them, especially the SLA and SLS nylon. Until you can get the base smooth and un-dimpled, you will never get an RTR level of smooth glossy paint finish unless you spoon the paint on, and then you will lose the door lines and lovely panel detail you have got so very correct. This base finish is the next key to your success. Very impressed. As for the brass versus 3D debate - as someone who can't solder for toffee, I know where my preference will lie when the smoothness of the finish is sorted.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 Here's a screenshot of some work in progress. I need some more composites so the next carriage I am doing and will print is an E88. The first coach I did the whole coach model in one piece cutting out the windows etc a pain to change details, thicknesses etc. Now I've adopted a modular approach: a compartment section (as per the test pieces) - which can be stretched for 1st class ones (looking at pictures the compartment side windows seem the same, it's the panel in between that stretches) - and other modules for the wc and end. This should mean I can do most variations of coaches with less work. Brakes will need bespoke brake compartment sections. I'm planning on printing this one in iMaterialise Standard Resin, which has the tightest constraints on wall thickness being 1mm, so the walls and details have been sized on that. I see rumours of the return of Slaters' range which may mean less need for me 3d printing Toplights, though of course there are plenty of other diagrams I can do, including 70 footers. Thanks for looking Jon 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Here's a screenshot of some work in progress. I need some more composites so the next carriage I am doing and will print is an E88. The first coach I did the whole coach model in one piece cutting out the windows etc a pain to change details, thicknesses etc. Now I've adopted a modular approach: a compartment section (as per the test pieces) - which can be stretched for 1st class ones (looking at pictures the compartment side windows seem the same, it's the panel in between that stretches) - and other modules for the wc and end. This should mean I can do most variations of coaches with less work. Brakes will need bespoke brake compartment sections. I'm planning on printing this one in iMaterialise Standard Resin, which has the tightest constraints on wall thickness being 1mm, so the walls and details have been sized on that. I see rumours of the return of Slaters' range which may mean less need for me 3d printing Toplights, though of course there are plenty of other diagrams I can do, including 70 footers. Thanks for looking Jon More than rumours. Ive played a dmall part in getting the toplights back into production. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 More than rumours. Ive played a dmall part in getting the toplights back into production. Hopefully not breaking in to Mr Dunn's abode and retreiving the moulds! Did Slaters also do clerestories too, are they returning? Given the price the kits fetch for on Ebay it will be interesting to see where the reinstated products are pitched. Likely cheaper than 3d printing certainly with FUD/Resin I would guess. Given the above I might just stretch the one above to a 70' compo, beauty of my modular design approach. Anyway, once I've got Toplights cracked I can move on to Concertinas, fingers crossed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted March 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2018 Jon Keep up the good work. Even if Slaters put your Toplights into a "no win" position" your amassed skills and "modular approach" (which i like) will be good for the dozens of other diagrams needing to be revived as they are no longer on sale: 013 Milk Brake L10 van etc etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Hopefully not breaking in to Mr Dunn's abode and retreiving the moulds! :jester:All i can really say is that Slaters 4mm kits will return. Hope people will be patient and not start hassling them Did Slaters also do clerestories too, are they returning? Given the price the kits fetch for on Ebay it will be interesting to see where the reinstated products are pitched. Likely cheaper than 3d printing certainly with FUD/Resin I would guess. Given the above I might just stretch the one above to a 70' compo, beauty of my modular design approach. Anyway, once I've got Toplights cracked I can move on to Concertinas, fingers crossed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Hopefully not breaking in to Mr Dunn's abode and retreiving the moulds! :jester:all the 4mm kits will return eventually. Just be patient and await announcements Did Slaters also do clerestories too, are they returning? Given the price the kits fetch for on Ebay it will be interesting to see where the reinstated products are pitched. Likely cheaper than 3d printing certainly with FUD/Resin I would guess. Given the above I might just stretch the one above to a 70' compo, beauty of my modular design approach. Anyway, once I've got Toplights cracked I can move on to Concertinas, fingers crossed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Hopefully not breaking in to Mr Dunn's abode and retreiving the moulds! :jester:all the 4mm kits will return eventually. Just be patient and await announcements Did Slaters also do clerestories too, are they returning? Given the price the kits fetch for on Ebay it will be interesting to see where the reinstated products are pitched. Likely cheaper than 3d printing certainly with FUD/Resin I would guess. Given the above I might just stretch the one above to a 70' compo, beauty of my modular design approach. Anyway, once I've got Toplights cracked I can move on to Concertinas, fingers crossed... I think the constabulary refer to this as a "no comment interview". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 More than rumours. Ive played a dmall part in getting the toplights back into production. Could you elaborate? DrDuncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Could you elaborate? DrDuncan Wouldn't be appropriate. The 4mm kits will be re released including the toplights. Please be patient. Slaters will get them back into production hopefully fairly soon. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 I think the constabulary refer to this as a "no comment interview". ooooh err. What happened to my replies? It wouldn't be appropriate to say too much at this stage. Just be assured that the 4mm kits will be back, including the Toplights. I urge people to be patient and not hassle Slaters. Due to the debacle with Dunn, there is a fair bit of work involved. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 Well I have to say I am fed up with iMaterialise. I had got a model (an E88) ready to go with body in their standard resin, been through their online checking thing and thickened walls a fair bit to get the 1mm minimum only for the order to be cancelled by them due to risk of warping. Their check criteria for materials seem more stringent in any case, certainly for the SLS nylon compared to Shapeways and Sculpteo. So I will probably now try the same model in Shapeways FUD - which anyway seems around same cost as the iMaterialise resin and I think (need to check) may be less onerous in its requirements. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Shapeways can be a pain in the arse with them cancelling things at a whim and for seriously retarded reasons that make zero logical sense...even for things that have printed well many times before. Never heard them use risk of warping as an issue though. Hopefully they won't add that to the list! To be fair they seem to have been improving a lot lately. Edited March 26, 2018 by Knuckles 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) Every so often, I get rejections on some of my early stuff, when there were no software tools to check designs online once uploaded. I even had some iems ptrint OK, I know, I did then test print most stuff. Even noticed that the software tools showed no problem on a couple of items, but I reckon there was potentially a problem still, so , in effect fille up some holes, which would not have been visible anyway. I am amazed at how small FUD can go. Well, that is according to online checking. Working on some gates for my LSWR gatestock coaches, and thought it might only be possible for larger scales, but got them down to TT3 OK. Now N gauge, that might be stretching it too far. EDIT I tried, but increased some thicknesses, and amazingly it says it will print in FUD What I am now realising, and appreciating is that some items(detail) might be better in finer plastic, but the heavier , flatter parts(ie coach body) are still better in WSF. Less of a warping problem. It is getting the balance correct. Having to add a few detailed parts is not kit building. I had considered a modular coach construction when I firsr started doing coaches, but in my research have found many coaches which were just not modular in construction, ie compartments of different lengths. I still might have tosplit coaches into 2 or 3 sections, for Gauge one as the maximum coach length in this scale is between 60ft and 65ft. If I go for even bigger scales(eg 10mm/ft) then this will be necessary for quite a few of my designs. Edited March 27, 2018 by rue_d_etropal 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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