3d printed GWR coaches - something big...a D51

[cctransuk]

One further thought, but about grab handles this time.

 

I've always wondered whether it would be a difficult thing to make up a "former" to bend some decent grade brass wire around. This would get away from the flat look that comes with brass, and also give the better impression that comes from having spearately fitted handles. 

 

Rovex

 

It works well - I tried it back in the 1970s for a couple of plasticard scratchbuilt coaches.

 

Two holes and two brass pegs in an offcut of thickish sheet brass. Then, with suitable softish brass wire, up the rabbit hole, round the two trees, and down the other rabbit hole; a quick tug on the ends of the brass wire and clip off the finished grab handle. (Those of us who were in the Cubs will recognise the aide-memoire)!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited June 12, 2018 by cctransuk

[The Great Bear]

It works well - I tried it back in the 1970s for a couple of plasticard scratchbuilt coaches.

 

Two holes and two brass pegs in an offcut of thickish sheet brass. Then, with suitable softish brass wire, up the rabbit hole, round the two trees, and down the other rabbit hole; a quick tug on the ends of the brass wire and clip off the finished grap handle. (Those of us who were in the Cubs will recognise the aide-memoire)!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

When I sailed I never could tie a bowline in a rope so at 4mm scale in brass that may be too much of an ask for me!

[The Great Bear]

For the D56 I tried doing the grab handles separately, a print in FUD from Shapeways

 

I got the underframe printed in SLS nylon from someone on 3d hubs. (For this material, like Shapeways WSF it is not much if at all cheaper, especially considered Shapeways competitive shipping rates.)

 

The bogies are from Stafford Road Models Shapeways shop

 

The interior was done in resin by 3d hubs, same as the body

 

I am not sure about some of the interior colours especially at the van end.

 

So here's the completed coach

 

The door hinges missing from the 3d print were added using bits of styrene strip

 

I am quite pleased how the FUD grab handles came out. A bit fragile, thankfully printed loads of spares, but not too fiddly to fit. I am trying something else for these, more maybe tomorrow.

 

The end detail, I added from previous versions details for the alarm gear; the wire for the indicators and linkage isn't fitted, should have done that before putting on the grab rails.

 

I am quite pleased how this coach has turned out. My painting is getting a tad neater, need to work on the application of transfers!

 

Thanks for the interest shown

 

Jon

Edited May 28, 2018 by The Great Bear

[MGR Hooper!]

Very good work. Looks just like other kit built coaches. You're skills with the brush have also improved incredibly. We all start somewhere and if your work is anything to go by I think you learn fast. I look forward to more.

 

I'm still waiting for my Tomytec N gauge chassis to be delivered, once that is done I can make the final tweaks to the CAD work and I shall also contact Ivan to have my model 3D printed. I shall also report back on here so that combined feedback from more people about Ivan's 3D printing can be used later by others who may wish to try him.

I'll be doing a NG diesel locomotive in HOe scale and I've used Shapeways' guidelines to design this. I do hope no one assumes that I am hijacking this thread, just hoping to contribute to what is essentially a supplier of 3D printed things. I'd be looking forward to what Ivan's printer can do regarding the grille detail. I've been amazed with the level of detail and smoothness achieved already from images here on this thread.

 

The grille detail I am hoping can be achieved.

Edited June 9, 2018 by MGR Hooper!

[The Great Bear]

Very good work. Looks just like other kit built coaches. You're skills with the brush have also improved incredibly. We all start somewhere and if your work is anything to go by I think you learn fast. I look forward to more.

 

I'm still waiting for my Tomytec N gauge chassis to be delivered, once that is done I can make the final tweaks to the CAD work and I shall also contact Ivan to have my model 3D printed. I shall also report back on here so that combined feedback from more people about Ivan's 3D printing can be used later by others who may wish to try him.

 

I'll be doing a NG diesel locomotive in HOe scale and I've used Shapeways' guidelines to design this. I do hope no one assumes that I am hijacking this thread, just hoping to contribute to what is essentially a supplier of 3D printed things. I'd be looking forward to what Ivan's printer can do regarding the grille detail. I've been amazed with the level of detail and smoothness achieved already from images here on this thread.

 

Over view of the HOe scale NG diesel loco.

ZDM-3 HOe (1).jpg

 

The grille detail I am hoping can be achieved.

ZDM-3 HOe (2).jpg

 

Thank you and no problem, the more info on 3d printing the better!

 

Regarding orders from 3d hubs, I have another coach from Ivan in transit. This has been delayed a bit, Rather than use DHL he suggested using another courier, 4PX. THis was I think due to DHL wanting customs declaration or invoice or something, not completely clear from the message. The declared value of the goods was only $5 but he said EU import wanted to see invoice. I would have been happy to pay the duty due, which I think would be just VAT as would still work out cheaper than getting it done elsewhere. Anyway, how the other courier works it would appear is that they do the international shipping bit then pass on to the Royal Mail to deliver to the doorstep. Not as fast as DHL, but the latest package is now here in the UK and on its way to me, probably arriving today or tomorrow (so a week in transit, still good considering). I will wait and see whether I have to pay any duty.

 

The other issue is that the first print, was the best. On subsequent ones the small details, door hinges for instance, didn't print. On the last coach I specified a 100 micron layer thickness so that may well have been it. The two before that I was too clever I think, in that I put in two orders one for the body and one for the interior with different resolutions. I suspect he got confused and did them all at the coarser one. The one its way to me I specified 50 micron layer and reiterated that so hopefully will be as good as the first one. If not then I may investigate alternative supplier on 3d hubs.

 

The perils of international manufacturing!!!

[MGR Hooper!]

All my prints will be done in the 50 micron layers. I need the finer quality because I intend on having parts resin cast. So would prefer the least amount of post-printing work.

[Siberian Snooper]

In the past, before of the CooperCraft debacle, I have bought lost wax commode and T handles from Slaters as separate items, but  I always bought enough for several coaches to make it worth while. It may be worth giving them a ring to see if they can/will supply the parts.

[The Great Bear]

In the past, before of the CooperCraft debacle, I have bought lost wax commode and T handles from Slaters as separate items, but  I always bought enough for several coaches to make it worth while. It may be worth giving them a ring to see if they can/will supply the parts.

 

Thank you. In the meantime I had an experiment with Shapeways' Brass - not sure how it is made, I think by casting?

Pleasantly suprised, although not cheap - this lot cost £12. Might be able to cut that down with a bit more design thought, do more at once?

 

Here they are on a coach

It is wonky as I drilled out the guide hole too much. The coach is the latest arrival, another C32, from Ivan at 3d hubs. This time I made it clear I wanted 50micron layers and it is back to the same standard as the first one I got, with the hinges and door stops printing.

 

I have also experimented with using PLA for the interior. It doesn't need to be detailed, well certainly if you aren't going to get up really close or light the coach.

 

Rough or what? This was done on an Ultimaker apparently and the hub had good reviews for their prints so I am assuming this is typical of what one gets with PLA? Mind you I made no attempt prior to priming it to try and clear it up. Looking at these photos I might go back and try that. In the dark of the coach it probably wouldn't be noticed and this is the most economical way of getting something which is quite a lot of material and bulky printed; Shapeways to do this part in WSF would charge in excess of £30, Sculpteo less, £21 on their economy plan, but their shipping is much more.

Edited June 2, 2018 by The Great Bear

[Quarryscapes]

Thank you. In the meantime I had an experiment with Shapeways' Brass - not sure how it is made, I think by casting?

Pleasantly suprised, although not cheap - this lot cost £12. Might be able to cut that down with a bit more design thought, do more at once?

 

Here they are on a coach

It is wonky as I drilled out the guide hole too much. The coach is the latest arrival, another C32, from Ivan at 3d hubs. This time I made it clear I wanted 50micron layers and it is back to the same standard as the first one I got, with the hinges and door stops printing.

 

They've come out nicely, and lucky to avoid rejection as sprues aren't allowed in Brass.They won't get any cheaper (except due to the exchange rate), £12.18 is the minimum price for a Brass or Bronze part, no matter what you do to the design. It's a pain in the behind when you want to do a lot of small items like that, but it is always going to be an expensive process (print in plastic then lost wax cast). Despite its cost, I use Bronze more than any other material at the moment - I've just used it to make a working ratchet brake lever and sprung buffers for a 16mm Van. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133891-fr-van-116-in-16mm-a-modified-one12-models-kit/?p=3178867. 

[The Great Bear]

They've come out nicely, and lucky to avoid rejection as sprues aren't allowed in Brass.They won't get any cheaper (except due to the exchange rate), £12.18 is the minimum price for a Brass or Bronze part, no matter what you do to the design. It's a pain in the behind when you want to do a lot of small items like that, but it is always going to be an expensive process (print in plastic then lost wax cast). Despite its cost, I use Bronze more than any other material at the moment - I've just used it to make a working ratchet brake lever and sprung buffers for a 16mm Van. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133891-fr-van-116-in-16mm-a-modified-one12-models-kit/?p=3178867. 

Thank you. With a bit of experimentation the optimal arrangement is 24 of them, two rows like the attached, that works out as £16.77, 70p per handle. I guess Shapeways didn't know what they were, that the plate was a sprue. Pity given the way they are produced they can't give a volume discount, having made the mould, but logistically I suppose that's a nightmare. Very nice parts you made there.

[Guy Rixon]

The coach is looking fine, and the commode handles are certainly interesting, although I'm not sure that I'd go with the positive metal print because of the cost and the chance of Shapeways noticing the spruing at some later date (at least one person at Shapeways reads this forum).

 

What might be useful is to print a former around which the commode handle can be formed in brass wire. One can make such a former by hand, from metal scrap, of course, but many potential users of coach prints would not be pared to do that. Producing a former in printed steel, say, might get a wider audience. 

[rue_d_etropal]

 

Thank you. In the meantime I had an experiment with Shapeways' Brass - not sure how it is made, I think by casting?

that is correct. They 3D print a mould then cast from that. Any decent metal caster these days should be able to do something similar. If not they are not using latest technology.

 

Big advantage Shapeways have is being online and having customers worldwide.

 

They actually look good. this is one way to make best use of 3D printing, using different methods for different bits. Given me some ideas.

Edited June 3, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[Quarryscapes]

Thank you. With a bit of experimentation the optimal arrangement is 24 of them, two rows like the attached, that works out as £16.77, 70p per handle. I guess Shapeways didn't know what they were, that the plate was a sprue. Pity given the way they are produced they can't give a volume discount, having made the mould, but logistically I suppose that's a nightmare. Very nice parts you made there.

 

 

The coach is looking fine, and the commode handles are certainly interesting, although I'm not sure that I'd go with the positive metal print because of the cost and the chance of Shapeways noticing the spruing at some later date (at least one person at Shapeways reads this forum).

 

What might be useful is to print a former around which the commode handle can be formed in brass wire. One can make such a former by hand, from metal scrap, of course, but many potential users of coach prints would not be pared to do that. Producing a former in printed steel, say, might get a wider audience. 

 

Rejection depends on who's doing the checks on any given day, designed right sprues need not affect printabiity or more important castability, and I think in such cases they are happy to let them slip through the net. I've done a few where I've formed a sprue of parts into a funky pendant, and I also do a tree of parts to be printed in plastic that the purchaser can then send off to their own caster of choice. It's worth noting that whoever Shapeways are using, the quality is better than your usual railway kit lost wax item. 

[rue_d_etropal]

Have not got much experience with brass fittings, but it does look like Sapeways have someone who knows what they are doing. Again, it also means that there is a word wide customer base, hopefully not affected by any trade disputes. I am wondering if I should do roof vents this way, leaving them off main design, but they can be ordered with the main print.

[MGR Hooper!]

The brass door handles look amazing!

[sem34090]

This Ivan fella... can you drop a link - couldn't find him!

 

In the meantime are you considering offering the toplights for sale?

 

Also, perhaps putting more handrails in will make it better value for money. Same cost, as that is their minimum, but with more volume.

[MGR Hooper!]

This Ivan fella... can you drop a link - couldn't find him!

 

In the meantime are you considering offering the toplights for sale?

 

Also, perhaps putting more handrails in will make it better value for money. Same cost, as that is their minimum, but with more volume.

Hey sem34090

 

Here you go. HTH and sorry for the delayed response. Only just saw your post. I might have earlier referred to Ivan from Hong Kong but I believe Ivan's business is from China.

 

https://www.3dhubs.com/service/ivan3d

Edited June 6, 2018 by MGR Hooper!

[justin1985]

I've only just discovered this thread. These are some seriously good models! Your modular design is really clever (you must be a pretty experienced AutoCAD user aside from the 3D?) And those Chinese prints are superb.

 

I can't help thinking that investing in an airbrush would really help make the most of them though.

 

J

[Guy Rixon]

I've only just discovered this thread. These are some seriously good models! [...]

I can't help thinking that investing in an airbrush would really help make the most of them though.

 

Possibly the OP wishes to continue developing his brush painting. The reasonable investment for airbrushing is around £160 for brush + compressor + cleaning gear + appropriate paints and solvents (add sacrificial goats and black chickens to taste to make it actually work), so not totally trivial.

 

However, I would very much like to see one of these prints finished with an airbrush. If they were in period for me I'd buy one myself.

[The Great Bear]

Possibly the OP wishes to continue developing his brush painting. The reasonable investment for airbrushing is around £160 for brush + compressor + cleaning gear + appropriate paints and solvents (add sacrificial goats and black chickens to taste to make it actually work), so not totally trivial.

 

However, I would very much like to see one of these prints finished with an airbrush. If they were in period for me I'd buy one myself.

Thanks, both. I don't have the space to use an airbrush nor likely the ability. Also there are the fiddly details like the bollections to get in the way of masking effectively and also needing brush painting. I do not hide that my painting and lining isn't living up to the full potential of the bare models. I think I am getting slowly better. I too would be curious to see what someone who knew what they were doing could achieve with them.

[M.I.B]

Practice and technique will improve the look of the paint jobs.

 

Your efforts on the 3d printing are nothing to be ashamed of.

[rue_d_etropal]

I would not worry too much about painting. As long as you start with a good matt acrylic primer(Hsalfords), you can apply thin coats(staining in effect) of paint. Build up layers of paint until it looks right. I would not even consider airbushing or a can of spray paint, except for grey primer for large areas to be covered.

 

What I keep trying to stress is that youneeed to approac 3D printing in a different way. What might have been perfect for more traditional materials might not be so good for 3D printed materials. Not helped now that there is no agreement on best way to clean what used to be called FUD .

 

I had a look at the brass option Shapeways offer, and only really suitable for very small detailed parts or complete bodies (N gaugers use them). I wondered if  coud use it to create some bespoke axles for chassis conversion(big scales), but cost was very high, so looking other materials for that .

[MGR Hooper!]

FWIW I don't think that one has to invest in the best of compressors and airbrushes. During one of my visits to China I had picked up a very basic compressor and airbrush and I've now had it for over 5 years and it has served me well. It's far easier to use. You only require patience to mask and clean the brush properly. It boils down to the owner and how it's looked after. And as usual practice makes perfect.

 

I had paid no more than (USD)$45 for the whole set. The best results are often attained by using a combo of both.

 

If anyone is interested in the brand of my compressor and airbrush is HSENG. Prices may obviously vary as it has been many years since I got mine. Their build quality is superb and my compressor has taken a fall from a 2ft tall bench. No damaged to the compressor. The air-pipe's screw was damaged and they happily sent me a replacement.

 

All that being said, I personally think that TGB's skills with the paint brush are the best I've come across in this hobby. I would love to paint one of his coaches, however shipping up and down would be extremely expensive and decals etc would simply add to the costs.

 

HTH

PS: My workbench setup is fairly simple. I have a study table converted into a workbench and I have it positioned near a window. I always used water based paints/acrylics and whilst painting I ensure that the window is opened, I have a mask on and I set up a small fan to drive the air outwards. I also live in a very small flat currently.

[The Great Bear]

This Ivan fella... can you drop a link - couldn't find him!

 

In the meantime are you considering offering the toplights for sale?

 

Also, perhaps putting more handrails in will make it better value for money. Same cost, as that is their minimum, but with more volume.

The handles, some experimentation shows that 24 no in two rows works out cheapest at just over £16. Noting the comments about rejections and pleased with how they look I have ordered some more and that order has been accepted, so good so far.

 

Regarding offering stuff for sale, I'm flattered that this of interest. This is what I wrote when asked whether they can be for sale in my layout thread.

 

 

Thank you. Maybe is the answer.

 

If you look at the other thread you can see that the Shapeways FUD (or whatever it is called now) is not the best finish, the resin prints I have got from 3d hubs are better. 3d hubs is just a manufacturing service and you can't set up a shop. Also the prints from that service at an economical price come from China which is not so straightforward; latest order is delayed due to issues with shipping/customs. Shapeways I think is far too expensive, the body shell alone in FUD would be £85 (or £58 in WSF but the finish is nowhere near good enough and for the panelled coaches sanding to get a smooth finish would degrade the panelling), the underframe in WSF £18, the interior in WSF £30, so nearly £140. Ouch!!!

 

I am still exploring 3d hubs and if I can reliably get stuff done via that maybe then I can offer these to others I but it is not so straightforward. I am toying with getting a 3d printer but resin printers don't come cheaply and I am not sure I can justify that based on my own needs (or even with the odd print for others) - even with man maths!

 

Thanks for the interest and do watch this space!

 

Jon

 

 Once again, thanks for the interest shown.

[Harlequin]

For resin printing Ivan has a FormLabs Form 2 (cost around $3,900) and a Union Tech Lite 600 (probably cost above $100,000)

 

The Form2's maximum print volume is 145*145*175mm.

 

The Union Tech's print volume is probably 600*600*500mm - and being a commercial machine, you'd expect it to produce high-quality results.

 

(I say "probably" in the context of the Union tech machine because I can't find a machine of that name, only an "RSPro 600": http://en.union-tek.com/product/detail/RSPro_600)

 

The hobbyist/home-user resin printer with the biggest print volume (at a reasonable price) I've found so far is the Kudo 3D Titan 2: https://all3dp.com/1/best-resin-dlp-sla-3d-printer-kit-stereolithography/#kudo-3d-titan-2

Edited June 6, 2018 by Harlequin