markw Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 23 minutes ago, 57xx said: Any idea what era that livery is for? It is an early post war repaint as it has the wartime sm prefix which later repaints did not have. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 1 hour ago, SP Steve said: Not so sure it was a later modification - all steel framed RCH drawings that I've seen up until 1927 have a racking plate. The number of holes varied but they all seem to have one with only wooden framed vehicles and the later 1927 variants (with a revised layout for the frame members) not being so equipped. I'm not saying there were none to the same layout as the Oxford item but generally I would have thought there would be more vehicles in service with than without. Excuse my ignorance, but what is a “racking plate”? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 26, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2020 40 minutes ago, 57xx said: Any idea what era that livery is for? Photographs suggest those markings were still being applied to silver tanks up to around 1955. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 26, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2020 14 minutes ago, markw said: It is an early post war repaint as it has the wartime sm prefix which later repaints did not have. Thanks, I'll touch those out when mine arrive. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 26, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2020 15 minutes ago, 26power said: Excuse my ignorance, but what is a “racking plate”? That's a new one on me, too. Looking at the photo, there appears to be a sort of shelf inboard of each end cradle on the wagon next to the loco, that the second one doesn't have, so I think that's probably it. If so, it shouldn't be too difficult to add where necessary. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 22 minutes ago, 26power said: “racking plate” The oblong plates that are riveted (or welded) across the end of each frame above the buffers and drawbar to counter frame twist. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Steve Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 18 minutes ago, 26power said: Excuse my ignorance, but what is a “racking plate”? The racking plate can be seen on the image posted by Porcy Mane on the wagon closest to the train engine - it's a metal plate that fixes to the headstock and sole bars and can just be made out to the left of the front and rear tank retaining bolsters (which are shorter in length than the two central saddles). I believe the purpose of them was to keep the headstock and sole bars at 90 degrees to each other and the term 'racking' simply means something going out of true. The drawings I've seen for steel chassis equipped vehicles all seem to have them until those for 1927 at which point the frame was altered giving added strength to the build. RCH specifications for 1907 show a ten hole rack plate modified in 1911 to four hole (not sure if the holes were for weight reduction, component access or to avoid pooling of product). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted August 26, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2020 1 hour ago, markw said: It is an early post war repaint as it has the wartime sm prefix which later repaints did not have. Ok thanks. I'm looking for livery from pre-war, 1930's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted August 26, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2020 I've found a resource listing a vast array of liveries: http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/12-linind/petrol.htm You have to scroll down a bit past the industrial section. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 2 hours ago, 57xx said: I've found a resource listing a vast array of liveries: http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/12-linind/petrol.htm You have to scroll down a bit past the industrial section. Treat with caution - by the author's own admission, the information is somewhat generalistic and may not be wholly correct / accurate. John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 4 hours ago, 26power said: I don’t know about era but I think maybe about the same as other liveries? Which I think is pre WW2? By the way, this more recent post from markw seems to suggest “Shell” on one side and “BP” on the other - the wagon number is the same on both vehicles, I.e. different names on different sides. markw also refers to a Shell Mex & BP version (singular). There are pictures in British Railway Private Owner Tanks Wagons (Railways in Profile Series No.14) R Tourret Cheona Publicatrions 2001 (ISBN 1 900298 17 1) of no.s 1500 and 7004, both 14T Class A, with SHELL on their side with the comment that it was probably BP on the other side - 1500 dated as 8 March 1952 at Eastfield and 7004 25 May 1956 at Starbeck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 27, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, 57xx said: Ok thanks. I'm looking for livery from pre-war, 1930's. Similar markings, but buff tanks, like the Carless version, not silver. John Edited August 27, 2020 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iltman Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 I think I’m stepping into a minefield here so here goes; the buff colour was introduced for class A tank wagons in 1907. In 1939 the livery was changed to the silver grey livery with red solebars but almost immediately changed to a dull grey for obvious reasons. The silvery grey livery was reinstated post WW2 but the buff livery lasted for some time as BR allowed companies to use it as an alternative into the early 1950s. As for the pictures of the ShellMex BP tanker it’s lettered correctly with Shell on one side and BP on the other and is known as the type one livery which lasted until the late 1950s. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 27, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2020 47 minutes ago, Iltman said: I think I’m stepping into a minefield here so here goes; the buff colour was introduced for class A tank wagons in 1907. In 1939 the livery was changed to the silver grey livery with red solebars but almost immediately changed to a dull grey for obvious reasons. The silvery grey livery was reinstated post WW2 but the buff livery lasted for some time as BR allowed companies to use it as an alternative into the early 1950s. As for the pictures of the ShellMex BP tanker it’s lettered correctly with Shell on one side and BP on the other and is known as the type one livery which lasted until the late 1950s. You didn't step on any mines that I'm aware of. I've seen a photo, dated 1954, of a string of three "Airfix" 20t Shell tanks that appear to be in buff finish. My Airfix models have Shell branding on both sides. Is that OK for the livery post-war or should they have BP on one side? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 Does anyone know the background to the Carless Petrol example? I cannot find anything about a number 10 example in my books Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted August 27, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Garethp8873 said: Does anyone know the background to the Carless Petrol example? I cannot find anything about a number 10 example in my books Specifically No10 or Carless in general? Edited August 27, 2020 by 57xx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said: You didn't step on any mines that I'm aware of. I've seen a photo, dated 1954, of a string of three "Airfix" 20t Shell tanks that appear to be in buff finish. My Airfix models have Shell branding on both sides. Is that OK for the livery post-war or should they have BP on one side? John I wonder if these examples were dedicated to a special traffic? As has been pointed out, Shell and BP pooled their fuel tankers, which carried both companies' logos. However some tanks were not included in this arrangement; the most obvious examples being the ones that ran between Pumphurston and Grain on shale oil and paraffin wax traffic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, 57xx said: Specifically No10 or Carless in general? No.10. I cannot find any information which mentions No.10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Dunsignalling said: You didn't step on any mines that I'm aware of. I've seen a photo, dated 1954, of a string of three "Airfix" 20t Shell tanks that appear to be in buff finish. My Airfix models have Shell branding on both sides. Is that OK for the livery post-war or should they have BP on one side? John By 'Airfix' tank wagons, do you refer to the RTR or kits models? John Isherwood. Edited August 27, 2020 by cctransuk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 27, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, cctransuk said: By 'Airix' tank wagons, do you refer to the RTR or kits models? John Isherwood. The r-t-r ones, the 35t kit ones were (at the time) only used by Esso AFAIK. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted August 27, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2020 27 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: The r-t-r ones, the 35t kit ones were (at the time) only used by Esso AFAIK. John And Regent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 24 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: The r-t-r ones You'll be meaning this one? https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/airfix-54347-shell-20-ton-tanker-489782523 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Just now, Clive Mortimore said: And Regent. & Mobil (Charringtons) & BR 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted August 27, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said: & Mobil (Charringtons) & BR But didn't Esso have the first ones? Also, the Airfix kit only came with Esso transfers, though I understand others have become available since Dapol took it over. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) On 27/08/2020 at 14:09, Dunsignalling said: But didn't Esso have the first ones? The three prototypes were branded Esso. There was also one for BR. The are books and a good many articles that have been published down the years giving chapter & verse on the 35t GLW tanks and models of them. Edited August 30, 2020 by Porcy Mane To correct my BS. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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