cctransuk Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 46 minutes ago, Suffolk Dave said: Nice but it looks a bit ‘modern’ to my eyes. Hatton’s lists it for eras 2 and 3 but according to this site https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Fisons The company didn’t become ‘Fisons Ltd’ until 1942. Another figment of someone's imagination - a modern, might-have-been livery on an ancient tank wagon. The trouble is - the liveries applied to the prototype were not that visually striking. This flight of fancy will be attractive to the kiddies! John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 The livery is late 1950s I believe. I think this is where the photo was. Seems to have disappeared. https://hmrs.org.uk/fisons-ipswich-12t-ammonia-tank-m12-46-op-1959-exwks-f3r-possible-duplicatelicate-of-aau412.html I think the Grahams Lager one was also dismissed as being fictional until the real one was found. Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 The green can be spotted just on later wagons on Paul Bartlett's site, generally filthy condition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk Dave Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 On 12/12/2020 at 22:32, Steamport Southport said: The livery is late 1950s I believe. I think this is where the photo was. Seems to have disappeared. https://hmrs.org.uk/fisons-ipswich-12t-ammonia-tank-m12-46-op-1959-exwks-f3r-possible-duplicatelicate-of-aau412.html I think the Grahams Lager one was also dismissed as being fictional until the real one was found. Jason Suspicions confirmed, perhaps: this Fisons wagon isn’t really suited to periods before WW2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 I'm curious about them myself. Tankers are one item of rolling stock that I don't really have many of. I haven't really looked but I found some more modern ones on Paul Bartlett's site which I presume replaced them. The date on them is 1958-9 so I'm now thinking the missing photos on the HMRS site is of that type. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/fisonsammonia Unfortunately I don't think they are in any of the PO wagon books I have and they aren't mentioned on the list of wagons covered in books on the Lightmoor website. https://lightmoor.co.uk/category.php?section=CatPrivateOwner The only reference is this which I assume is also the later type. The RT2 refers to British Railway Private Owner Tank Wagons by Richard Tourret Fisons Fertiliser [[Unknown] [Modern tanker] RT2/32 I'll keep on looking but I'm not expecting to find much online. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 It could actually be pre 1942 as there are advertisments on Graces Guide for Fisons Fertiliser in the 1920s. https://gracesguide.co.uk/Fisons Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 But the triangle logo with the ploughed field and tree as on the Oxford wagon appears to originate from the 40s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Could be. I found something about sulphuric acid wagons built for WD use by Charles Roberts. I can't find the link now. If I do I'll post it. Maybe they were those sold on after the war. I might just get one anyway and if they aren't exactly right it's no real problem personally. They'll fit in somewhere. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 If only manufacturers referenced their source material publicly; their are endless threads doubting the accuracy of one model or another. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) There are three photos of sulphuric acid tanks in the Cheona paperback on tank wagons, one a WD and two others. The two others are actually the same photo! They look very close to this model but are rated at 14 tons rather than 12. The two wagons appear to be almost identical despite the WD one having been built by Charles Roberts and the Broxburn example by Hurst Nelson. Both were built in 1940. The only obvious difference is the filler stack and lid, that on the latter being somewhat chunkier. In both cases this fitting is taller and narrower than would be usual on a wagon built for oil or petroleum traffic. John Edited December 15, 2020 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Butler Henderson said: If only manufacturers referenced their source material publicly; their are endless threads doubting the accuracy of one model or another. Can't be done - they would be constantly saying 'After the style of .......'! Why let odd details such as wheelbase, chassis length, decade of prototype, vaguest resemblance (whilst squinting) to the prototype, etc. interfere with a 'pretty' product? John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2020 Just found another photo towards the back of the Cheona book. Another WW2 example of Hurst Nelson build similar to the Broxburn one, but liveried for the Ministry of Supply. Again, pretty close in appearance/proportions to the Oxford model, though I think probably 9' or 9'6" wb, a bit shorter than the model. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 Here is one of the Carless wagons that I converted to P4 and have lightly weathered. There will be a little more grime around the underframe when I drag the airbrush out. From the few photos I can find, i think the livery is late 1930s (I model early 1920s) but it is a very nice model. I think the stone colour is a bit too yellow but I am not inclined to do a repaint. Regards, CraigW 12 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted December 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2020 One of the Benzol tanks crept into my order for the Dapol Mogul. I am very impressed with it, whilst I'm not much of an expert on tanks, it certainly looks very finely made. Craig, a very thin wash of white would have toned the yellow down. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 11 hours ago, 57xx said: One of the Benzol tanks crept into my order for the Dapol Mogul. I am very impressed with it, whilst I'm not much of an expert on tanks, it certainly looks very finely made. Craig, a very thin wash of white would have toned the yellow down. I have one more to do, shall give it a go. Regards, Craig W Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk Dave Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 On 22/12/2020 at 11:32, Craigw said: Here is one of the Carless wagons that I converted to P4 and have lightly weathered. There will be a little more grime around the underframe when I drag the airbrush out. From the few photos I can find, i think the livery is late 1930s (I model early 1920s) but it is a very nice model. I think the stone colour is a bit too yellow but I am not inclined to do a repaint. Regards, CraigW You've made a lovely job of the weathering and I am intrigued by the conversion to P4. It would be interesting to know what that entails. Have you added compensation or replaced any of the original model? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Suffolk Dave said: You've made a lovely job of the weathering and I am intrigued by the conversion to P4. It would be interesting to know what that entails. Have you added compensation or replaced any of the original model? Hi Dave, I used the original chassis and it is rigid. I suspect all will be ok though. The axle length is a little over 26mm but the axles are 2mm dia. I retained the original axles but fitted Ultrascale wheels, secured in place with loctite. The brake lever is fine but I thought the brakegear was a little heavy so I the removed safety straps and replaced them with brass ones. The brakegear needs to be pushed out a little to suit the P4 wheels and then secured in place. I also removed the plastic moulded inside V hanger and fitted an etched one. Finally, I fitted Exacoscale 3 link couplings and hook as they looked a bit finer. The weathering is just a build up of washes to tone down the colour a little, I will be doing a bit more underframe dust and grime when I get my airbrush out. Looking at photos from prewar (not that there are many), the Class A tanks do not really seem to have got really grimy. Regards, Craig W 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk Dave Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, Craigw said: Hi Dave, I used the original chassis and it is rigid. I suspect all will be ok though. The axle length is a little over 26mm but the axles are 2mm dia. I retained the original axles but fitted Ultrascale wheels, secured in place with loctite. The brake lever is fine but I thought the brakegear was a little heavy so I the removed safety straps and replaced them with brass ones. The brakegear needs to be pushed out a little to suit the P4 wheels and then secured in place. I also removed the plastic moulded inside V hanger and fitted an etched one. Finally, I fitted Exacoscale 3 link couplings and hook as they looked a bit finer. The weathering is just a build up of washes to tone down the colour a little, I will be doing a bit more underframe dust and grime when I get my airbrush out. Looking at photos from prewar (not that there are many), the Class A tanks do not really seem to have got really grimy. Regards, Craig W Thanks for this Craig. The P4 world always raises my curiosity but I’ve never dipped my toe into it! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) I have read through this topic and comments on various other forums that the Oxford Rail 12t tank wagon is a very good and accurate model. As for the liveries produced so far it would appear that: (1) Mobil (Class B c1955-1964), BP ( Class A post war) and Colfix (livery photo date 1927??) are accurate models, confirmed by photographic evidence. (2) An HMRS photograph confirms Carless livery is correct, but the photo is of a 14t wagon with larger diameter tank. No evidence that a 12t version was owned. (3) Fisons, Graham's and Benzol liveries appear ok but no evidence the companies owned this type of tank wagon. Would that be a fair summary? Paul Goldsmith Edited January 2, 2021 by PaulG 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Steve Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Jim Smith Wright has picked up one thing I hadn't picked up on (mainly because I've ditched them) in that the two vertical "L" section stanchions for the tank cross heads have their vertical webs to the same side rather than on opposite sides: https://www.p4newstreet.com/good-old-fashioned-kit-bashing-with-a-spot-of-rtr-bashing-too.html I've checked against the RCH drawings in "Oil On The Rails" by Alan Coppin and they all show these to be made from "T" section steel rather than the "L" section used on the OR tank. This may account for the error in that when viewed from the side, part of the "T" section is hidden by its vertical web giving the impression of "L" section. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 3 hours ago, SP Steve said: I've checked against the RCH drawings in "Oil On The Rails" by Alan Coppin and they all show these to be made from "T" section steel rather than the "L" section used on the OR tank. Easy to see why the Oxford rail "Engineers" made such a fundamental error in using L section as opposed to T. They should have looked at more photies. A good majority of these tank wagons differed from the RCH drawings in that the vertical end stanchions were made from a T section pressing. Fortunately easily rectified. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Harvey Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) The BP version is now showing in stock at Oxford:- https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/collections/new-in/products/po-tank-wagon-bp-no-1061-or76tk2007 OXFORD RAIL 1:76 Scale PO Tank Wagon BP No 1061 — Oxford Diecast Edited June 10, 2021 by Mike Harvey Added link 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 8 hours ago, Mike Harvey said: The BP version is now showing in stock at Oxford:- https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/collections/new-in/products/po-tank-wagon-bp-no-1061-or76tk2007 OXFORD RAIL 1:76 Scale PO Tank Wagon BP No 1061 — Oxford Diecast Have they done it with SHELL on t'other side? They have correctly numbered it SM for the Shell - Mex BP joint marketing operation introduced in the early 1930s. Paul 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 I believe so. It was announced after the others and I can't find the details anywhere. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinTrucks Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 On 10/06/2021 at 15:48, hmrspaul said: Have they done it with SHELL on t'other side? They have correctly numbered it SM for the Shell - Mex BP joint marketing operation introduced in the early 1930s. Paul The livery samples for said tank are here: https://www.facebook.com/Oxford-Rail-2176618712550434/photos/pcb.2635107770034857/2635105620035072 Best regards Martin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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