Craftycomputerpaper.co.uk

[cctransuk]

11 minutes ago, rdr said:

i'm sure i've seen the numbers and such applied this way

 

You may well have done so - it's called Tampo printing, and is widely used in the factory environment.

 

It does require a special machine though; it's not as simple as dipping a stamp in paint and then applying it to the model by hand.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[rdr]

i thought i had seen it done. Where a machine is needed to automate something a simplified method would certainly produce results. A simple jig and an ink/paint pad would work quite well.

Edited June 17, 2019 by rdr

[lyneux]

That's not quite how tampo printing works but similar.

 

If you want to understand the process, you could do worse than watching a video, e.g. 

 

 

The 'ink' (paint?) looks to be held in an etched plate, then transferred to the pink pads before being applied to the part.

 

Guy

[rdr]

yes i had a look at a quite a few videos.

1. ink/paint the pad 

2. align to the job

3 apply the ink/paint

With the greatest of respect, it's not that complicated, but each to their own i guess.

[cctransuk]

32 minutes ago, rdr said:

yes i had a look at a quite a few videos.

1. ink/paint the pad 

2. align to the job

3 apply the ink/paint

With the greatest of respect, it's not that complicated, but each to their own i guess.

 

Could you perhaps outline how you would go about '1.'?

 

Having seen the real thing operating, (decades ago in the Hornby factory at Margate), I know that you are somewhat over-simplifying a complex process.

 

Did you note in the video the numerous adjustments required to ensure that the application position and pressure is correct? That could not possibly be reproduced in a manual application.

 

Whatever - no doubt you will try your suggestion, and I look forward to seeing the results here in due course.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[rdr]

1. spread a thin layer of paint across a surface and press the stamp onto it.

 

Should i have to design a complicated machine to do this, would the paint have to be a specific thickness and be within a specified tolerance regarding viscosity. Would the ambient light have to be just right and the mains voltage be monitored in case of voltage spikes or frequency changes. Would i have to install air conditioning or make a "clean" room.

 

What i did see when reading through this thread was the inventiveness of the modelling community and the positive nature of each person, sadly John you seem to have missed out on these points.

 

I have no need to try this, i merely offered an alternative from a different viewpoint.  I could regale you with examples of i was there and i saw that, but that would be silly, wouldn't it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lyneux]

1 hour ago, rdr said:

yes i had a look at a quite a few videos.

1. ink/paint the pad 

2. align to the job

3 apply the ink/paint

With the greatest of respect, it's not that complicated, but each to their own i guess.

 

You're missing off...

0.1 design artwork and get etched plate made.

0.2 apply ink to etched plate.

4. re-ink the pad using precise alignment so that you don't get any ghosting effect.

...

 

For ad-hoc work, I'll be sticking to printed transfers.

 

Guy

[rdr]

Thanks Guy, the method i described did not need an etched plate, you've got that from a video i guess.

 

I seem to have come across a very unwelcoming group of members with you and John. My apologies in having an idea outside your viewpoint or skill set, i'll remember to avoid such situations in the future.

[lyneux]

Sorry, but what you are suggesting is totally impractical and from an effort/reward point of view disproportionate with a questionable outcome.

 

Don't be surprised if people on here with any real-world modelling experience think it's a daft idea.

 

Guy

Edited June 18, 2019 by lyneux

[WIMorrison]

There are a huge number of suggestions made across all of the pages in RMWeb that are impractical from a cost and/or effort perspective yet they are still followed with a level of interest that encourages the posters to experiment unlike the posts in this thread where the so called ‘experts’ are knocking the suggestions down before they have even been tried, and not in a supportive manner.

 

If the attitudes displayed lately in this thread were followed across the hobby then there would be no innovation, development or progress.

 

there are ways to suggest that something is impractical which are not the ways used in these posts and I rather encourage the poster to try what he suggests, it may just work (it wouldn’t be the first off the wall idea that has proved useful and workable) -  and if it doesn’t work then at least the idea has been tested and known not to work with lessons being learned along the way.

[justin1985]

On 07/01/2019 at 22:47, Albion47509 said:

 

One word of warning - Ghost do charge a very high flat shipping rate, so I would advise buying more decal foil with an initial purchase, as now I've seen how good the decal sheets are I've just ordered another 10 which came to £25, but with an eye-watering £28 shipping on top.

 

Cheers,

Tony.

 

This is a really useful post! I've been thinking about getting one of these toners myself - I already have an HP m277 multi-function colour laser that they cater for. 

 

Prices seem to have gone up further though - it now seems to be a flat £38 for delivery! That does seem implausible given the cost of shipping other things from Germany, but as you say it is a good product, I might just go ahead and swallow it. (But order plenty of decal film with it).

 

Any further experience with the Ghost toner? Did you ever try overlaying other colours on top of the white with a second print pass?

 

J

[Albion47509]

Hi Justin1985,

 

Yes I've used it a lot more in the last few months for an Eastern region weedkiller train (my reason for taking the plunge in the first place) and I'm more than impressed with the results - on the spray coach I wanted white on black for the Departmental running number, but I just printed the black patch and then added an extra white transfer over the top - the carrier film is so thin you can get away with it. However, it is something I've been meaning to try but suspect the the alignment will not be consistent enough - may be O.K for large transfers, but most of mine have been tiny so far as working in N.

 

I've attached some photo's from my weedkiller train as examples - even the inspection dates on the sole-bar are just about legible 

Everything on the attached photo's is home printed apart from the electrification flashes which are from the Fox range.

 

For further pics check out - https://tonybuckton.smugmug.com/NGaugeModels/BR-Eastern-Region-Weedkiller-Train/

 

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Albion47509

[justin1985]

On 01/03/2020 at 18:15, Albion47509 said:

Hi Justin1985,

 

Yes I've used it a lot more in the last few months for an Eastern region weedkiller train (my reason for taking the plunge in the first place) and I'm more than impressed with the results - on the spray coach I wanted white on black for the Departmental running number, but I just printed the black patch and then added an extra white transfer over the top - the carrier film is so thin you can get away with it. However, it is something I've been meaning to try but suspect the the alignment will not be consistent enough - may be O.K for large transfers, but most of mine have been tiny so far as working in N.

 

 

Hi Tony,

 

Those look absolutely amazing! My Ghost toner arrived last week, and I started with a design for a sheet of GER decals I had been planning to commission from one of the suppliers.

 

I'm also working in N - well 2mm Finescale - so this little scratch built sand wagon is pretty tiny. I think the decals stand up well! The butter wagon next door was printed on the last of my old Crafty Computer Paper laser sheets, using normal HP toners (thankfully no white needed on that livery!)

 

As I'm mainly modelling pre-grouping, I'm keen to do plenty of different private owner wagons as well. White obviously not now a problem, but white with black shading (quite common) might be a bit tricky. I might try printing the second layer of black shadow on a second pass, but if no luck, I'll give your two layers of decal solution a try. The simplest solutions are often the best!

 

J

[Albion47509]

Yes I imagine that the shading could be quite tricky - separate transfers may be an easier answer. 

Your results look great - can't see any shading in the planking - whereas the transfers applied the shark ballast plough I did didn't quite settle into the gaps.

[justin1985]

9 hours ago, Albion47509 said:

Yes I imagine that the shading could be quite tricky - separate transfers may be an easier answer. 

Your results look great - can't see any shading in the planking - whereas the transfers applied the shark ballast plough I did didn't quite settle into the gaps.

 

Thanks! They haven't settled entirely into the gaps either side of the (comparatively) hefty vertical beam, but its pretty much perfect into the normal planking. I did the full Micro-Set then Micro-Sol treatment, and returned to slosh on plenty of extra Micro-Sol (red bottle) after a few hours, several times, until there was no sign of air gaps within the planks. That seems to work really well with this paper - as you've said, its commendably thin!

[Albion47509]

Thanks Justin - I'll have to try that in the future - I just used Humbrol Decal fix which has performed fine on flat surfaces, but not so good on the planking.

[njee20]

Sorry, bit of a thread resurrection, but I'm interested in try one of these Ghost toners. I don't have a laser printer at all at the moment, but I'm printing more and more of my own decals, and I've now built a wagon where all the lettering is white; which I think may become expensive quickly once I start getting quite a few custom printed. Equally I'm quite happy to do away with the process of varnishing the decals printed on inkjet.

 

If you're printing white, can you only print white? I'm thinking of a logo which is black and white, this one specifically:

 

Not sure if that's what you mean with the shading @justin1985 Would that be possible with a single pass, or do you need a white 'under layer' with a black decal over the top?

 

Edit: ah, the white replaces the black, so two passes required. Shame. And now £42 shipping from Ghost regardless of what you buy! Flat rated for a single sheet of decal foil or a laser printer!

Edited May 15, 2020 by njee20

[justin1985]

20 hours ago, njee20 said:

Sorry, bit of a thread resurrection, but I'm interested in try one of these Ghost toners. I don't have a laser printer at all at the moment, but I'm printing more and more of my own decals, and I've now built a wagon where all the lettering is white; which I think may become expensive quickly once I start getting quite a few custom printed. Equally I'm quite happy to do away with the process of varnishing the decals printed on inkjet.

 

If you're printing white, can you only print white? I'm thinking of a logo which is black and white, this one specifically:

 

Not sure if that's what you mean with the shading @justin1985 Would that be possible with a single pass, or do you need a white 'under layer' with a black decal over the top?

 

Edit: ah, the white replaces the black, so two passes required. Shame. And now £42 shipping from Ghost regardless of what you buy! Flat rated for a single sheet of decal foil or a laser printer!

 

 Hi @njee20 - yes its two passes needed for white + any other colour involving black.

 

It would be theoretically possible to include colours based on the CMY colours BUT the big catch is the fact that all home/office printers work with RGB colours from your computer and convert them to CMYK colours to suit the toners, themselves. Even if you design in CMYK in your graphics software. 

 

So whatever colour you design, the printer is assuming it can use white (paper) and black (K) to modulate that colour. If you print any other colour when you have the white toner fitted, you might get quite unexpected results because it will be mixing in the white as if it were black, if that make sense.

 

But, I did find layering two decal sheets, one printed with white, the other with black/other colours, was very successful, because the decal film is so thin. Two passes through the printer with the same film seems good enough for the t-shirt printing etc that seems to be their main market, but not accurate enough for small scale models, unfortunately.

 

 

This 2mm scale private owner wagon has the shadow applied as one layer, with the white layer over the top.

 

 

Justin

[Izzy]

Could you produce the logo by just using white inkjet decal paper? Have to be careful about bleed at the edges but can work okay.

 

Izzy

[meld]

Some great work there Tony.

 

I was just wondering what font you are using and how do you get down to that small point size, produce as a Jpeg ( or similar ) and the reduce in editing software?

 

Many Thanks

 

Meld

[njee20]

10 hours ago, Izzy said:

Could you produce the logo by just using white inkjet decal paper? Have to be careful about bleed at the edges but can work okay.

 

Izzy

I definitely could, with appropriately chosen background colour to fill in the gaps; and that’s the current plan. With heavy weathering I’m sure that’ll be fine, but colour matching isn’t all that easy. 
 

It’s more the other data panels and writing, all of which is white, which is a pain!

 

The ‘two layer’ approach looks great though, definitely food for thought. 

[njee20]

Well I've bought one, see we'll see how we get on! There was a new, sealed Ghost White cartridge on eBay, and coincidentally the printer it fits (from a totally different seller) on auction; so I won the latter, and purchased the former! Printer (HP 177 FW) gets mediocre reviews, mainly seems to be around rubbish connectivity and copying, but seems to print ok, so see what happens!

Ghost replied to my email to confirm that they genuinely pay €50 to ship a single sheet of decal foil, because that's how FedEx work. Why you wouldn't use a different courier I don't know!

I've had a lot of luck with "Mr Decal Paper" waterslide paper, and they do a clear (and white backed) laser paper, so going to try that rather than pay the exorbitant fees from Ghost. My concern is whether I'll be able to see where the white is printed on the clear backed one to cut it out, but see what happens.

[K14]

Mr Decal Paper also do A4 Blue-backed sheets:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLUE-BACK-Water-Slide-Decal-Paper-A4-INKJET-LASER-5-Pack-Sizes/172277890804?hash=item281c8ffef4:m:mE-QUCyc6qGIBuOGcnyp9Hw&var=471098940694

[WIMorrison]

Might be a silly question but how do you get white ink to print on this 'paper'? I have a HP7610 and cant seem to find white ink anywhere (for this or any other inkjet  )

[njee20]

You can’t get white inkjet ink. Hence the discussion about Ghost, who have a near monopoly on white laser toner, allowing you to print white at home. OKI do similar, but I think all of their products are now obsolete, so tracking them down is harder. 
 

1 hour ago, K14 said:

Mr Decal Paper also do A4 Blue-backed sheets:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLUE-BACK-Water-Slide-Decal-Paper-A4-INKJET-LASER-5-Pack-Sizes/172277890804?hash=item281c8ffef4:m:mE-QUCyc6qGIBuOGcnyp9Hw&var=471098940694

 

Damn! I always buy through their website (you get 15% off with code MDP15), but I didn’t actually see that listed. Oh well guess I’ll try the clear and see what happens!

 

Edit: it was on page 2, whilst clear and white are on page 1, that'll teach me to not actually look! Still, will give the clear a go, if I buy the blue I'll have almost spent as much on paper as I did on the printer today!

Edited May 18, 2020 by njee20