"Finer" Z Gauge: Höllentalbahn - German Secondary Line with hand built track

[Lacathedrale]

Had to believe quite how spot on you've got the weathering on that van, good show. Is the overall layout footprint going to remain the same now you have these separate return loops, or will it be extended to 170cm  * X ?

[justin1985]

Now I've built the return curves as separate boards I've been working on a new track plan to fit between them. I'm sticking to the 1200x500mm size of a slab of pink insulation foam as a convenient total size, not least because it is also the length of the short edge of a sheet of ply - and I have a stock of suitable strips of 6mm ply leftover from another aborted project.

 

I felt like this would give me plenty of space to model a small station and viaduct scene in Z, but once its all laid out, I'm still quite short of space! Here is a draft plan drawn up in Templot with a gentle S curse over most of the length to give it a bit more of an organic look. The turnouts are all B6 size, which I'll build using code 40 rail and PCB sleepers as per the samples further up this thread.

 

 

Posing a few buildings and bits of stock on the plan gives a sense of how it will look. 

 

 

 

A very random selection of stock (what I happened to have unboxed) but it makes the capacity of the loop and sidings clear: the platform loop only just accommodates a loco and two coaches; the goods shed siding holds two 2-axle wagons, and the headshunt / dock holds one wagon.

 

This all feels a bit tight! I'm torn between ideally wanting a longer station loop and sidings, and the feeling that it would take away from the scenic side of the layout. While I like the idea of doing a little bit of tokenistic shunting, really I want the layout to be about watching trains go by, through some nice scenery.

 

Perhaps that still points towards finding a way of making a longer passing loop though, to create a regular operating pattern of letting meaningful length trains pass. Swapping the loop turnout to the current location of the goods siding turnout would give that extra length, but would mean the goods siding would probably have to cross the station entrance in order to be workable! (but not without precedent in small German stations? e.g. @2mmMark 's post with photos and a plan of Emmelshausen in 1990).

 

I'd be pleased to hear any thoughts on this!

 

Final photo: the two "train set" wagons I've weathered and fitted with Microtrains couplings posed on the Faller viaduct - the open wagon now with a load courtesy of a random bush in my front garden!

 

 

Justin

Edited January 19, 2020 by justin1985
typos

[2mmMark]

My advice would be to reduce the baseboard length a bit to 1000mm or maybe 1100mm.  I've found that 1200mm or 4ft is a little bit unwieldy when trying to load it into a car.  It's just that little bit too long to go widthways across the boot or rear seat. 

The weathered wagons look really good, Justin. 

Do you know about Trainini magazine? There's some excellent Z scale modelling featured in it and they've been doing an English translation for the past couple of years
https://www.trainini.de

My limited experience of German railways is that they are not too worried about mixing road and rail, unlike the UK where Network Rail are seemingly determined to close every level crossing as soon as possible. 

 

Mark

 

 

[justin1985]

2 hours ago, 2mmMark said:

My advice would be to reduce the baseboard length a bit to 1000mm or maybe 1100mm.  I've found that 1200mm or 4ft is a little bit unwieldy when trying to load it into a car.  It's just that little bit too long to go widthways across the boot or rear seat. 

The weathered wagons look really good, Justin. 

Do you know about Trainini magazine? There's some excellent Z scale modelling featured in it and they've been doing an English translation for the past couple of years
https://www.trainini.de

 

 

Thanks Mark! I was aware of Trainini, but hadn't noticed the translations - another rabbit hole opens up!

 

Point taken on board length - but then this layout isn't really intended to be an exhibition layout at all. Just portable in terms of being able to get it out onto a table, and put away onto shelving. I wouldn't rule out taking it out once or twice, but I feel kind of loathed to compromise how it looks at home to make it easier to exhibit, if that makes sense? I'm planning to fully box it in, cameo style, so it should be robust enough to survive being loaded in a car at a funny angle / through folded down seats, etc, if it had to be.

 

After discussion in the "German Railways" forum here I think I've decided on swapping the turnouts to make the main loop longer, and turning the goods siding info another loop passing the front of the station, using A5 turnouts. I'll try and post an updated track plan tonight.

 

J

[justin1985]

I think this is getting close to a final track plan. The goods shed is now served by a loop that crosses the station entrance - which seems pretty typical (The MIBA Nebenbahnen special issue I ordered has arrived - very interesting, even with my very patchy German).

 

 

The turnouts on the main loop are still B6s, and the goods loop A5s, to try and save a little extra space. Might revisit that though and make them all B6s ... 

 

In the meantime I've been buying up more Märklin turnouts for the fiddle yard, and fitting more MicroTrains couplings to my Märklin stock. The first loco I've fitted is a V100 bo-bo diesel, which will probably be the main goods / shunting loco for Epoch III / IV trains. The close coupling alone makes it worthwhile, I think!

 

[Lacathedrale]

So passengers cross the goods loop and the running line to get to the platform?

[justin1985]

On 27/01/2020 at 17:06, Lacathedrale said:

So passengers cross the goods loop and the running line to get to the platform?

 

Having a siding crossing between the station building and the main platform doesn't seem uncommon (e.g. http://eisenbahn-mv.de/lageplan/lpl243.pdf  and Mark's post

 

I think for my model the decision will be practical - a longer siding might give more operating potential, but Z gauge wagons seem so light that the Microtrains couplings struggle to couple up without pushing against a buffer stop (uncoupling works well). I don't fancy the Microtrains suggestion of fitting springs between wheels and their bearings on one axle per wagon to add more friction! 

 

So that pushes towards a shorter siding ending in front of the station building, rather than passing right across it.

 

I ordered another of the Faller viaduct kits so I can extend the span a bit more, to have a gentler sloped valley to cross. I'll see how that effects the visuals.

[justin1985]

Well, another one of my projects that has ground on very slowly indeed. Not having access to the MakerSpace to work on the main baseboard (I'd designed end plates and risers to laser cut)  has been a good reason to procrastinate and work on other things.

 

One recent Z gauge thing - I recently, rather optimistically, bought an eBay lot of Märklin wagon bodies - no chassis. Seemed like a good way to build up a stock of short wheelbase wagons.

 

 

Despite some spectacularly bad packaging (the box sounded like a bag of Lego coming through the letterbox) they don't seem any more damaged than they were in the photos. Many are Christmas specials, which is fine for repaints. 

 

 

No idea what's going on with this one though!

 

Of course, it turns out that while Märklin sell a comprehensive range of loco spares for Z, they don't do wagon chassis or bogies. I did manage to order a load of spare wheels direct from Märklin using some Black Friday / newsletter subscribers discounts.

 

So, I've started working on 3D print designs for replacement chassis. First shot seems promising!

 

 

This one is a like for like copy of the Märklin original, just measuring off with calipers. Minus the end steps, which I thought would be too delicate, and the central steps are fattened up a bit for durability. I'll try adding trusses etc for different wagons now though.

 

Justin

[team_kona]

Hi justin, well its Christmas and due to moving house and diy on said property taking over it’s well

over a year since I made progress on my Z gauge Ravenna gorge project. Have just unwrapped it and checked to see how damaged it might be ( moves over 8 months ago and been in loft) , thought I would Share with you my crude ( compared to your high skill level and detail) layout, lots more snow and features to go on, it’s the first time I have gone smaller than g scale so it’s been a learning curve, but do like smaller stuff, N gauge next maybe ! 

Edited December 12, 2020 by team_kona

[justin1985]

Well, it's been nearly 18 months since I updated this thread, but I have been working on this project on and off ...

 

I decided to try and make the layout as modular as possible - so as well as the removable "end caps" for the curves, I built the scenic and fiddle yard boards separately, but firmly bolted together. Hopefully the fiddle yard could be reused in any future projects (I've started collecting some Canadian prototype Z too ...)

 

 

Making the fiddle yard the same width as the scenic board was probably a mistake though - even in 1.2m I couldn't fit more than 3 loops + through line before the loops became too short to be any use. The turnouts are all second hand standard Märklin, with integrated above board solenoids. These took quite a bit of fettling! Each line is switched, and I built a diode matrix to use push buttons for route setting. To my surprise, even when setting a route that needed many points to be thrown together, a standard 12v DC supply handled it absolutely fine, with no need for a CDU.

 

 

The scenic section is starting to shape up, with the viaduct now following a gentle curve (I sawed through the back of the piers and added strips of plasticard to pack the gaps and make the piers take a trapezoid shape).

 

 

This does highlight the lack of scenic depth though - I think I'll end up making the back scene, at least, project out, flying over some of the unused depth of the fiddle yard board just so it doesn't end up looking too flat.

 

I've just finished building the turnouts using code 40 rail and 2mm narrow gauge sleepers. Will write a separate post for them!

 

Justin

[justin1985]

I built the points by adapting the techniques for soldered track from the 2mm "Track" book, using 2mm Association code 40 flat bottom rail and narrow gauge sleepers. Unfortunately the roller gauges the Association sell suit only the code 30 rail that they sell for narrow gauge, so I bodged up some of my own by abusing some brass on my borrowed Unimat lathe, plus washers and bolts.

 

 

The PCB sleepers were much shorter in height than the Z flex track bases, so I've ended up having to "shim" the point work with 3 layers of 200gsm card, while the flex track will sit direct on the ply. I'm a little worried the card might not like being ballasted over, but I did use a generous amount of Easitrac glue to seal and stick down the track, which in my experience has needed quite a bit of hot water to shift in the past.

 

Beer can (330ml) here for scale:

 

 

You can also see the under baseboard Turnout Operating Mechanism that I've bodged together from plasticard, Evergreen section, and brass tube. The switch blades have cranked shape 0.3mm nickel silver wires that fit into the 0.5mm ID brass tube.

 

 

To operate the servos I decided to go with an ESU SwitchPilot 3 Servo DCC decoder. Even though I'm not using DCC on this layout! They take manual input from a row of contacts for passing contact switches, as well as DCC, and the killer feature as far as I'm concerned is the tiny OLED screen that lets you set things like servo position at each end of travel, speed, and even bounce, without needing to plug anything extra in, and make changes on the fly. Even better, they cost about £50 - cheaper than a MegaPoints equivalent, and much easier to use (in my book)! They work for up to 8 servos, so this will cover my 4 turnouts, plus a few uncouplers and a signal or two!

 

Finally, here's a quick video of a powered loco running smoothly through both routes of the first turnout! Obviously it stops when it hits the second turnout, which isn't yet powered, as well as when it runs out of track on the other route. The old Br111 with three pole motor (fast or stop) probably wasn't the best choice to showcase Z either ... Locos with more modern 5 pole or especially the newest ones with coreless motors are MUCH smoother. Doesn't look much, but it felt like quite an achievement!

 

 

Justin

[Lacathedrale]

Can we get some macro shots of the turnouts in situ? Bravo!

[justin1985]

Second set of points connected to tiebar and servo last night, and wired in. Close up photo as requested (newly connected turnout is under the Taurus, which runs through very smoothly )

 

[justin1985]

A bit more work over the weekend, and I've got a through line working - really pleased with how smoothly the stock runs through the turnouts

 

 

 

For now the viaduct isn't fixed down - the track is glued to it, and the ends of the rails are temporarily soldered to PCB sleepers at either end. It will need to be moved to sort out the scenery behind it, but I couldn't resist completing the circuit for now!

[47606odin]

Cracking little set up you have there

 

i bought some secondhand Marklin Z scale for putting round the Christmas tree. It’s great stuff. It’s still out on the TV cabinet now and I bought more bits and bobs to go with it. Now have 3 locos, 5 coaches and a small assortment of wagons.

 

being in Australia now, I want to build a snowy layout. I’ll look at that after I’ve finished (maybe before) Hither Green

it seems though there’s not an easy way to find Z scale layouts on this forum, either that or there isn’t any

[justin1985]

On 19/06/2022 at 10:13, 47606odin said:

Cracking little set up you have there

 

i bought some secondhand Marklin Z scale for putting round the Christmas tree. It’s great stuff. It’s still out on the TV cabinet now and I bought more bits and bobs to go with it. Now have 3 locos, 5 coaches and a small assortment of wagons.

 

being in Australia now, I want to build a snowy layout. I’ll look at that after I’ve finished (maybe before) Hither Green

it seems though there’s not an easy way to find Z scale layouts on this forum, either that or there isn’t any

 

Thanks for this!

 

Afraid I've barely had chance to do any modelling recently, and hardly looked at RMweb since the server failure. 

 

I think you're right that there are very few actual scenic Z layouts, at least outside of Germany ... but you can probably find most discussed at Z Freunde International: https://www.z-freunde-international.de 

 

Also, one of the most inspirational Z projects I'm aware of is actually located in New Zealand: http://zwassen.blogspot.com Unfortunately not updated in a few years, and I've not managed to make contact with him at all.

 

Best

 

Justin

[47606odin]

On 20/06/2022 at 18:51, justin1985 said:

 

Thanks for this!

 

Afraid I've barely had chance to do any modelling recently, and hardly looked at RMweb since the server failure. 

 

I think you're right that there are very few actual scenic Z layouts, at least outside of Germany ... but you can probably find most discussed at Z Freunde International: https://www.z-freunde-international.de 

 

Also, one of the most inspirational Z projects I'm aware of is actually located in New Zealand: http://zwassen.blogspot.com Unfortunately not updated in a few years, and I've not managed to make contact with him at all.

 

Best

 

Justin

 

a quick look at the friend international  forum makes me wish I spoke German lol

Edited July 1, 2022 by 47606odin

[Keith Addenbrooke]

On 20/06/2022 at 11:51, justin1985 said:

 

Thanks for this!

 

Afraid I've barely had chance to do any modelling recently, and hardly looked at RMweb since the server failure. 

 

I think you're right that there are very few actual scenic Z layouts, at least outside of Germany ... but you can probably find most discussed at Z Freunde International: https://www.z-freunde-international.de 

 

Also, one of the most inspirational Z projects I'm aware of is actually located in New Zealand: http://zwassen.blogspot.com Unfortunately not updated in a few years, and I've not managed to make contact with him at all.

 

Best

 

Justin

The Oxford and District Model Railway Club Exhibition on Sunday 16th October (Oxrail) incorporates Zedex - five Z Gauge layouts are listed.  Presumably the owners / operators would be good to talk to, as well as seeing their layouts.

 I have no connection with the Club and sadly won’t be able to attend - my daughter lives in Abingdon and sent me the details (looking at the layouts listed, I’d love to see them all, but Sundays aren’t possible for me).

Edited July 1, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Kiwibonds]

On 20/06/2022 at 22:51, justin1985 said:

 

 

Also, one of the most inspirational Z projects I'm aware of is actually located in New Zealand: http://zwassen.blogspot.com Unfortunately not updated in a few years, and I've not managed to make contact with him at all.

 

 

 

Hi, 

 

This is me actually!

 

Our house was being remodelled for about 18 months (off and on with covid!) so the layout was covered up and stored in the basement. I must dig it out again and continue with it. Some inspiration:  I just picked up a markin piggyback wagon off the local online auction site.

 

Cheers

Darryl

 

 

[justin1985]

I might not have used RMWeb much recently, but I have been making some progress on this layout ...

 

 

Some first pass scenics added, including kind of 3D backscene, with an RGBW LED strip behind it as an uplighter - in a kind of sunset colour here. Pretty pleased with the effect.

 

Painting the track has transformed the look of the thing too! Lots of bedding in and scenics to do, and many, many trees to come ...

 

Also a rather fun, if not strictly appropriate, new arrival:

 

[justin1985]

Ballasting and track weathering done, and the first of many, many trees ...

 

I'm trying to go for a mix of generic fir trees and autumnal beeches towards the back of the layout. These are (mainly) Busch bog brush firs, thinned out a bit, but then static grassed with very short dark green fibres to give some texture. The background beeches are sea foam with a dusting of foam flock, ground extra fine in a sacrificial coffee grinder. The foreground will get some finer brass armature trees - eventually.

 

 

Small (330ml) beer can for scale.

 

The container wagon pair is the very nice Rokuhan JR KoKi type, which I'm experimenting with "Europeanising" by removing the raised brake lights and walkways, and printed Japanese text, and adding buffers. They'll then get an extensive weathering. The Rokuhan containers are WAY better than any of Märklin's offerings, not least in that they're actually modelled on recognisable modern types, rather than modern liveries on very early toolings of very early container types!

[OnTheBranchline]

On 05/04/2023 at 14:29, justin1985 said:

Ballasting and track weathering done, and the first of many, many trees ...

 

I'm trying to go for a mix of generic fir trees and autumnal beeches towards the back of the layout. These are (mainly) Busch bog brush firs, thinned out a bit, but then static grassed with very short dark green fibres to give some texture. The background beeches are sea foam with a dusting of foam flock, ground extra fine in a sacrificial coffee grinder. The foreground will get some finer brass armature trees - eventually.

 

 

Small (330ml) beer can for scale.

 

The container wagon pair is the very nice Rokuhan JR KoKi type, which I'm experimenting with "Europeanising" by removing the raised brake lights and walkways, and printed Japanese text, and adding buffers. They'll then get an extensive weathering. The Rokuhan containers are WAY better than any of Märklin's offerings, not least in that they're actually modelled on recognisable modern types, rather than modern liveries on very early toolings of very early container types!

 

Remember, drinking and [train] driving is dangerous and get quite expensive quite quickly!

 

I'll get my coat.