Boston Lodge Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Hi. I've been working towards scratch-building a Bury 0-4-0 Goods loco, from the 1830's. These engines had 5ft wheels with rather unique round cast iron spokes. Nothing exists commercially but 3D printing offers the opportunity to create my own. I bought 3 pairs of Gibson Bulleid wheels perhaps 25 years ago for a resin bodied Q1, which still remains half-built. Pushing the inner BoxPox centres out was quite easy leaving me with a set of nice accurate rims. I've now designed and had made suitable inserts for my Bury (Shapeways - FUD). They fit like a dream. But, I also have some other Gibson 5 footers, 16 spoke, ref 4860E. When the inserts are pushed out of these my new inners don't fit, the tyre rims are a different design, the rims are thinner and the insert needs to be bigger. Can anyone answer why? Perhaps the Bulleids are an old design and the 16 spokers are the new. Changing my 3D print to suit the thinner rims is simple but if I ever think about trying to sell them I'll need to know which one to put in the market place. Thanks in advance for any feedback. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted January 27, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2018 Changing my 3D print to suit the thinner rims is simple but if I ever think about trying to sell them I'll need to know which one to put in the market place. Thanks in advance for any feedback. I can't answer your question about whether they've changed, but I would say that if you intend selling something that involves using parts from another manufacturer you should contact them directly to discuss. You could obviously just sell the 3D print and ask the customer to purchase their own wheels, but they could prove useless if the design of the Gibson wheels changes again without your knowledge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Driver Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Hi I've just read this thread and I believe that the original Alan Gibson used to produce a Universal wheel ( for 00) which was wider than the EM wheel that he then produced. The new Gibson wheels are the same for 00 or EM. This would explain the difference in tyre widths. Norman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2018 The "original" A.G. wheels (when Alan was at the helm) were always marked and sold as 00/EM, so far as I know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Driver Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I'm going back about 25-30 years ago the 00 EM and P4 were all different Norman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I'm going back about 25-30 years ago the 00 EM and P4 were all different Norman For your timescale I'm with polybear! Are you maybe thinking of Ultrascale? I'll need to know which one to put in the market place. As Chris P Bacon says, talk to Colin at AGW Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Driver Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I think its another blast from the past with the Universal wheels: Mike Sharman? Norman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted February 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2018 If we're definately talking Gibson wheels in both cases then there is no reason why they can't be different but it does seem unikely. The wheel centres are moulded in a three piece tool. One part of the tool produces the outside diameter of the plastic centre, another produces the spoke detail and contains the pin that makes the crankpin hole, a third insert does the axle hole allowing the same centre to do different diameter axles. These three parts locate in a tool block that takes two wheels at a time. Theoretically, I suppose you would mould all 5ft wheels to use the same tyre but there is no reason you couldn't have more than one. Perhaps there is a thin tyre and a fat tyre 5ft version. I do that with my FR England engine wheels The tyres are actually turned by AHB Services and the usual method of working when doing a new wheel is to mould a load of centres and send a sample to Alan at AHB, he will then adjust the tyre bore as they're turned to be a tight fit. Actually, having written that i can see how there could be differences between batches if they're made to match a centre like that. Tyres for an 0-4-0 isnt really a batch size to suit setting up auto or CNC machines but if they were doing some near size tyres in a larger batch they may tweak a last few to suit your centres if you sent them a sample. Give Alan at AHB Services - Google finds them Alan used to mould wheels for me. Colin currently does and I am slowly getting set up to do my own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanGibson Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 4860 and 4860B use a different size centre to 4860E, its a tooling issue, resulting in 4860E having a thinner rim. I hope your centre can live with the tolerance on the bore of our tyres Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boston Lodge Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) Hi Colin. Thanks for the reply. I was really just asking to understand why the 2 different style centres had different style rims. The original Bulleid wheels I bought would have been nearly 30 years ago but none of this is a problem - i was just interested. Because the 3D prints fitted so well (even without making any adjustments for shrinkage estimates) my plan is to buy some more of the 'thinner' wheels, push the centres out and order some more prints based on measuring the 'more delicate' design. I can only apologise that I'll only be buying the odd wheel, here and there. I work far too slowly. Richard Edited February 17, 2018 by Boston Lodge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boston Lodge Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 My new design of wheels have arrived. They didn't fit as snugly into the 4860E rims (needing a gentle file whilst being rotated in a Dremel, so the size needs a subtle change) but the improvement in looks is significant. Time to begin some modelling. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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