JeremyC Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Skinnylinny said: .......I might produce some roofs with holes for whitemetal ventilators and lamps, although the ones produced by Markits are the wrong sort (oval, rather than the distinctive circular ones on this coach) - a source of the correct type would be much appreciated! Linnie, while not LSWR, Wizard Models / Comet Coaches ref LYRC040, LNWC042 and MRC043 look to be round torpedo vents. https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/page/3/?s=Vent&post_type=product Also on Shapeways https://www.shapeways.com/product/VMJATMWHW/torpedo-carriage-roof-vent-oo-scale?optionId=57224448 Edited March 13, 2019 by JeremyC Added reference 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 If the LSWR used Laycock ventilators, which it looks like they did, there is a good largish sized manufacturer's drawing in David Jenkinson's first volume on carriage design. The only problem is that it is not scaled, however, also in that book, there are dimensioned drawings of coaches from a couple of lines that would allow you to size the ventilators fairly accurately, although it does appear, from other coach drawings, that these ventilators were available in different sizes, jus to confuse matters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 They are indeed Laycock torpedo ventilators, and I have two dimensions from the text of the Weddell book (9" tall, 10.5" wide) so it ought to be possible to work from those and an unscaled drawing. Unfortunately I don't think I have any books by Jenkinson. There also appear to be smaller ventilators over the lavatory compartments, so some extrapolation might be needed. I've added my ventilators to their positions on the 3D model and to my eye they look a little oversized. This may be helped by adding the rooftop lamps, though - they're the next thing to be drawn up, possibly tonight. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 For the pre-Grouping era, you need the LSW tall torpedo vents, wrongly used by Kernow on its late condition g a t e -stock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted March 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2019 11 hours ago, Skinnylinny said: .......... The LSWR brake third at the Bluebell certainly appears to have plain frosted glass. Most pregrouping preserved coaches and especially those that spent a long time as grounded bodies as cottages and sheds lost their original frosted toilet glass windows long ago which is why you see so many with just plain frosted glass. I spent a long time looking for images of original frosted or etched glass toilet windows for my digital coach models and I ended up having to make faux representations based on best guesses and a lot of artistic licence. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) Well, that seems to have gone very well! I got a message earlier that I had received post at the Hacklab, which could mean only one thing - my 3D printed test piece had arrived from Knuckles at Sparkshot Custom Creations. As he commented, it is very difficult to take photos of the white resin he used, so I gave it the very lightest of mistings of grey primer, just to see what it looks like. I'm gobsmacked. Just looking at it with the naked eye, the test piece is impressive. But then we got the microscope out. The grooves drawn on the door ventilators (drawn at 0.1mm wide and 0.1mm deep) are clearly visible (albeit not in this photo). The door hinges were drawn stepped, as per the CAD image in the post above. Even this stepping has come out. The hingest in this photograph are 0.5mm wide and 1mm tall. The door bump stops are 0.2mm diameter and 0.2mm deep. I am going to need to deepen the door edge grooves though - they are possibly slightly too thin. They're just about visible, but I don't know that they will be after a coat of paint. I don't want to overdo them though. Can't have draughty carriages! The stepping in the bottom panel, from which one can see the turnunder, ought to disappear under another coat or two of primer and paint. If not, Knuckles offers a higher resolution print, with layers of just 25 micrometers (1/40 of a millimeter!) in height. They're only barely visible to the naked eye as it is. Edited March 13, 2019 by Skinnylinny 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 Just a quick update on a personal level - I've had (and accepted) a job offer. On the one hand this means I'll have less free time to do modelling, on the other hand it means I should be a lot less stressed about finances. It also means that in a few months I might start looking into buying a 3D printer (having seen just what the Anycubic Photon can do) and/or a laser cutter. Work on the tricomposite continues apace - the roof is starting to look much busier now although I'm struggling a little with the plumbing routes for the gas lighting. There is no drawing of the roof in Weddell, and there is one photo at a 3/4 angle which gives an impression but not the details. I'm also trying to work out if the lavatory gas lamps are smaller than the compartment ones - the ventilators certainly are but the drawing isn't clear and they don't stand out much in the photograph. 3 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted March 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2019 Nice one Linny, really pleased for you (both the job and the modelling!) 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Linnie, Congratulations on the new job! Duncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 The Tri-Comp looks nice. Saw it over on the S4S forum. Look forward to seeing how this develops, any plans to do other LSWR/SECR/LBSCR coaches in this fashion as I might be interested in some potentially (my modelling period is initially 59-62 for the Southern, but the layout is being planned to allow 1919-1990 to be possible with some license at different times, so a wide variety of stock potential will be needed over time). PS: Congrats on the new job. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 Aha, thanks for the compliment and the heads-up. I seem to have caused a mini-storm with my solid door handles! I'll look at changing those or making the coach available with pre-drilled holes. Not bad for a first attempt at SLA printing though! I've produced some Stroudley coaches for laser cutting (which can be found earlier in this thread) but they're nothing like as detailed at this one. The 3D print design takes much more work than the laser cutting, and so work on this tricomposite is still ongoing. If this all works out I might be tempted to revisit my Stroudley coaches. There is also a slowly-growing range of pre-grouping southern wagons, also laser cut... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 The advantage I saw with comparing your laser cutting endeavours to my rather crude 3D Printing efforts was that the laser cutting was considerably cheaper. Regarding the lamps on the Tri-Composite, I'm trying to remember whether they were able to be removed and replaced for maintenance or whether this only applied to Oil Lamps. If so then it would be logical for them to be the same size on the lavatories as in the passenger compartments, but if not then perhaps they may have been smaller. I don't know for certain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 As far as I am aware it was only oil lamps which were removable. By their very nature, gas lamps were fixed since they were attached to the relevant piping. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 It's true, the 3D printing will probably work out more expensive than the card kits, although there's also a lot less building to be done in them. I'm also finding I can get much, much more detail in, and I'll need fewer bits to be bought in (no roof lamps or ventilators, for example!). Given that the starting point for this tricomposite was a set of parts originally drawn up for lasering (and I still have those!) I could probably make such a kit available. I've managed to get some plumbing onto the roof (although I'm not sure I've got it right, and I'll probably leave it off from the finished print to be done with Microstrip). Grab handles have been omitted as I have some etched brass ones from Roxey. I'll measure them up and add appropriate holes or dimples to allow them to be fitted straight and level. I've also drawn up some rudimentary interiors - seats and doors to the lavatory compartments. The first-class seats with their armrests still need drawing up. And showing the components... the roof is separate to allow the interior to be painted, the glazing to be fitted in the recesses (giving flusher but not flush glazing) and the seats to be painted neatly before the whole thing is assembled. This test will be to see if parts actually fit together or if they need fettling (in which case I'll try to modify the 3D file to reduce adjustments). Goodness, Jim commented as I was writing this post. That makes sense. I assume that the gas lamps would be removable for maintenance, but presumably not regularly due to the plumbing. 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 I notice you have two pipes going to each gas lamp. On Caledonian coaches there was only one running along the roof, slightly to one side of the lamps, with a branch going of to each lamp and terminating at the last lamp. I don't see the need for two pipes, but then your coach may have had a different arrangement. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, Caley Jim said: I notice you have two pipes going to each gas lamp. On Caledonian coaches there was only one running along the roof, slightly to one side of the lamps, with a branch going of to each lamp and terminating at the last lamp. I don't see the need for two pipes, but then your coach may have had a different arrangement. Jim The two pipe arrangement was fairly common, at least in southern lines, once the final mantle gas lighting had evolved. On one side there was a small bore pipe which provided gas permanently for the pilot light, whilst a second, larger bore, pipe provided the supply for the actual lights. This latter supply would have a control valve so that the guard could switch the lights on or off as necessary, on a coach by coach basis. Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 Aha! That explains it! I was wondering myself why there was so much piping on the roof. Thank you. I assume the valve for the lighting is the sliding bar at the carriage end, below the alarm gear, allowing the lighting to be easily turned on from a platform? There seem to be remnants of this left on this LSWR tricomposite brake (!) which is part of the National Collection (image is released under Creative Commons for non-commercial use, and can be found here: https://collection.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects/co205841/tri-composite-railway-carriage-railway-carriage). This coach also appears to have a dynamo and battery boxes, so presumably represents it after having been converted to electric lighting. My drawing for the tricompo I'm working on shows the pilot light gas pipe diverging from the supply line before the big box (which is presumably the valve) on the left. Now that I know that's what is going on, the drawing makes much more sense! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Ashdown Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) On 13/03/2019 at 05:44, Nick Holliday said: If the LSWR used Laycock ventilators, which it looks like they did, there is a good largish sized manufacturer's drawing in David Jenkinson's first volume on carriage design. The only problem is that it is not scaled, however, also in that book, there are dimensioned drawings of coaches from a couple of lines that would allow you to size the ventilators fairly accurately, although it does appear, from other coach drawings, that these ventilators were available in different sizes, jus to confuse matters. Linny, this is the drawing from Jenkinson, page 62. Edited March 20, 2019 by Dana Ashdown 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 Thanks for that, Dana, that's been really helpful. Sorry for the lack of updates recently, everyone. Things have been busy getting ready for the new job (which starts today). Some modelling has been happening, but mostly behind the scenes and in small chunks here and there. There should be an update soon! 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 At long last, I am starting to get some visible work from the CAD I've been doing! I sent off the two-compartment test piece to two different suppliers to see how it would print. Today, one supplier's print arrived. It was taken down to the club and given a coat of filler primer. First appearances are very encouraging - the bodyside is nice and smooth, with almost no visible stepping (although there appears to have been a bit of a printer glitch on the solebars - I would hope this is a one-off!). Some of the smaller details have been omitted, which is a pity - I might have to either redraw these slightly larger or see about getting printed at a different resolution. The roof was printed at an angle, and unfortunately there's some stepping here which has affected the lamps and vents a little. I'll have to have a word and see if I can get a new part printed on the level and see how that would affect the print quality. Have some pictures, however! And yes, I know the bogie is wrong - I pinched the only one I could find - an old Hornby Gresley bogie! The other supplier has told me that his version was posted on Monday, so hopefully that should arrive tomorrow or Thursday... Comparisons will be interesting. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted April 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2019 The world's shortest coach, - very cute. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Reminds me of my cut-down District Railway coaches I'm doing for the Blackstone 7 Marshland Railway... Very nice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted April 10, 2019 Author Share Posted April 10, 2019 Isn't it cute though? Someone at the club made a passing comment about running it as it stands and now I want to build a 2-2-0 with a short train of these as a silly fun thing to do... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Is there any chance of you putting another end on these and making them available? I like them a lot, and as I say they would complement my shortened District coaches. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, sem34090 said: Is there any chance of you putting another end on these and making them available? I like them a lot, and as I say they would complement my shortened District coaches. If you're nice, Linny might print the whole coach A very encouraging test, Linny. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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