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Skinnylinny

Great Southern Railway (Fictitious) - Cattle Wagons

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MInor update: Most of the rolling stock has been moved over to the new flat, along with various other bits and pieces. No modelling progress to report, but the new flat features, built-in, what is definitely a workbench. Not quite in frame is the set of four kitchen-style cupboards on the wall above the shelves. Plenty of storage for the kit stash!

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As can be seen, Linton Station Road is slowly coming along, although I'm not convinced by the station building, and I'll probably build another one... I'm actually quite tempted by one of the old Hornby semi-detached house kits, although I get the feeling I should probably have a small group of similar houses, to represent a few that were built at the same time by the same builder. Would this be likely?
 

I've been discovering just how much rolling stock I've already accumulated for this project (I dare say photos will appear once I've moved in), and, of course, being mainly kitbuilt/bashed, most of it is unboxed, so... lots and lots of delicate wrapping. Also discoveries of long-forgotten projects, including this little 009 Lister Auto Truck, on a Kato Portram motor bogie. A whitemetal body kit, it actually pulls surprisingly well, and runs beautifully smoothly and slowly. It still, strictly speaking, needs the handbrake handle needs replacing with a wheel, rather than the plastic handbrake off a Hornby tender drive tender!

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Edited by Skinnylinny
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Ooops...

I may have spent a bit of money that I found in a forgotten-about bank account (which, it must be said, was a very nice surprise!). The postman brought me a nice brown cardboard box to the office this morning.

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The usual Gibson wheels have been swapped out for Scale Link (self-quartering, Romford-style) ones, and it should do very nicely as a first build to try out the new workbench. 

I also received messages from two different people, informing me that there was a set of three decently-built PC Models LSWR 48' carriages on eBay, for £40 Buy-It-Now. These have also mysteriously found their way through my PayPal account. They'll need a few finishing touches (one rainstrip is partially missing, and I will probably retro-fit gas lighting), but they'll certainly fill another gap in the carriage roster until I get around to making my own. 

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...as I say. Whoops! My poor wallet...

 

Edited by Skinnylinny
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A forgotten bank account is a wonderful thing.

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In this particular case, yes. Not so much if it's accruing interest on an overdraft! 

Ever have that feeling you might have bitten off more than you can chew?

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I know the old adage of "you're only ever sticking two bits together at once" but... The castings are generally lovely and crisp, but I do have to wonder if this was necessarily the best feed point for the dome, especially given that the feed for the chimney was up the threaded rod at the bottom. I've already tried putting it in the smallest lathe we have at the Hacklab, but have had no joy, as the chuck doesn't grip very well at so small a size. Incidentally, there's no nut provided, so I'm not sure why the rod is threaded!

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20191115_205949.jpg.b43e1237f530eaf6ad92c7bc8c768b71.jpg

Dome trued up and cast screw machined off. Base drilled, counter-bored and tapped. Mandrel made up and casting feed machined off.  Just needs final cleaning up!

And your wheels are done as well :-)

Edited by JeremyC
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On 14/11/2019 at 10:01, Skinnylinny said:

Incidentally, there's no nut provided, so I'm not sure why the rod is threaded!

Probably used whilst making the pattern.

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10 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Probably used whilst making the pattern.

That would make sense, I suppose. Explains why the chimney also has a threaded rod.

 

12 hours ago, JeremyC said:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_11/20191115_205949.jpg.b43e1237f530eaf6ad92c7bc8c768b71.jpg

Dome trued up and cast screw machined off. Base drilled, counter-bored and tapped. Mandrel made up and casting feed machined off.  Just needs final cleaning up!

And your wheels are done as well :-)

That looks brilliant, thanks Jeremy! If anyone's in any doubt about the practical advantages of joining a club (beyond the like-minded company), skill-sharing is definitely one of the advantages. A propos of which, if you fire me those files you were wanting lasered, I'll try to get them cut ready for the next club meeting - I should have time on Monday evening to do a few quick cuts!

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So a little more work has been done on the Adams Radial, which is now looking very smart (on one side!), needing only the footsteps lined out. I must admit to a fair amount of cursing while trying to align all five bits of lining transfer on each of the toolboxes, but I'm pleased enough with the result. Just needs an identity now!
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I've also spotted something of interest on eBay - a Triang clerestory which has been rather nicely modified into a twin-coupe.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MUCH-MODIFIED-TRIANG-CLERESTORY-COMPOSITE-COACH/352865993649

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This set the gears in my brain turning... I like the idea of a GSR family saloon which could visit other layouts. 

Ten minutes in Microsoft Paint on a work lunch hour has produced a possibility with fairly minimal carving about of this nicely-modelled carriage. I'd be interested to hear peoples' thoughts. Even if I don't win the auction (which seems likely, as it's a nice model of an unusual type of carriage, even if freelance) there's probably enough of an idea there for me to set about one of the Triang Clerestory Firsts in my stock box...

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Of course, it would end up in GSR blue/white, possibly fitted with NEM pockets to allow the use of tension locks/Kadees, and also fitted with at least drawhooks to allow use on layouts with scale couplings.

Edited by Skinnylinny
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How come the servants get the end view? How about end saloons, with a service area in the middle? It has something of a Directors' Inspection Saloon about it.

 

Is the Ebay one possibly Highland inspired?

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It does look rather Highland-y, doesn't it? 

 

I couldn't figure out how to have a saloon with seats facing the end-view, so I plonked the servants there to allow a half-compartment at the other end for the parents to escape to! I could easily swap those around though, give the parents the nice view and have the servants in the middle, although I'd imagine the end view would be very popular with young boys at the time!

Edited by Skinnylinny
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Spotters' compartment? When I was very young, I used to be taken from Shrewsbury to Birmingham to see my Gran - first generation DMU, with view through the driver's compartment. I can remember vividly one place where there was a change of gradient under a bridge and it really did look as if the line vanished! Also, I'm told I called Cosford "Moblems" - the windsock was a landmark.

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Well, we'll have to wait and see about the coupe anyway.

I got a chance to get my Radial and Drummond-liveried M7 out with some coaching stock at the club tonight, so have a photo of two LSWR passenger trains passing one another:

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A bit of research on the journey home has led me to realise what a minefield the Adams Radial tanks were. 

The model started out as East Kent Railway no. 5, which had previously been LSWR 488 (the preserved one on the Bluebell). I'm trying to avoid preserved locos where possible, so that one was out. 11 0415 class tanks were built by Neilsons of Glasgow (including no. 488), so that gives me numbers 479-489 to play with. (Incidentally, the Neilson locos were built with differently-shaped front frames above the front running plates from those by other builders, so I'm stuck with a Neilson one!) 

Sadly, none were shedded at Guildford during the period 1900-1910 that I can see, however, one was shedded at Woking (just a few miles from where the GSR crossed the LSWR at Brookwood) from 1886 until (as far as I can tell) 1911, when it moved to Bournemouth. Perfect!

Anyway, to cut a long story short, say hello to number 487!

 

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Edited by Skinnylinny
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On 28/11/2019 at 12:39, Compound2632 said:

How come the servants get the end view? How about end saloons, with a service area in the middle? It has something of a Directors' Inspection Saloon about it.

 

Is the Ebay one possibly Highland inspired?

I've just looked at the Gould book of SECR bogie stock (as it was the closest to hand). They had quite a few designed of saloons, but none appear to have end windows. In fact most appear to have the lavatories at the ends...

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1 hour ago, Nick C said:

I've just looked at the Gould book of SECR bogie stock (as it was the closest to hand). They had quite a few designed of saloons, but none appear to have end windows. In fact most appear to have the lavatories at the ends...

 

In any railway vehicle, the steadiest ride is in the middle and the roughest at the ends. Thus first class accommodation tended to be in the middle. It's debatable whether having the lavatory compartment at the end was ever a wise idea, though it became the universal arrangement on gangwayed vehicles.

 

I had supposed that in most vehicles with end coupe compartments, the coupe was of a superior class but looking through the myriad of LNWR 42 ft non-corridor diagrams, there seem to be at least as many thirds as firsts or seconds. 

 

Here's an example with a first class coupe outside third class compartments:

 

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Unfortunately the passengers aren't very first class, though this does illustrate the appeal of such compartments. 

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The Great Southern Railway are pleased to announce the purchase of a new piece of rolling stock. It is intended to convert this carriage into a family/picnic saloon, which may be hired for outings to anywhere on the Great British mainland. The GSR are already in negotiations with the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway, the North Western Railway and the West Norfolk Railway to offer accommodation at their attractive holiday hotels at Oak Hill, Wellsworth and Castle Aching respectively, and the Board hope to be able to announce agreements with other companies in the future.

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On behalf of the South Eastern and Chatham Railway, who are keen to discuss arrangements of holiday excursions to their Kent and Sussex coastal resorts, I congratulate the GSR on their purchase and eagerly await news of the completed vehicle. I have often enjoyed the comfort of the GSR's services when on engagements in Surrey and anticipate another high-quality carriage from their works. 

 

Sincerely, 

 

The Right Hon. Alexandra Beauclerk. 

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Perhaps we could run an excursion service, to connect with the Blackstone and Marshland Railway company's services?

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5 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said:

Perhaps we could run an excursion service, to connect with the Blackstone and Marshland Railway company's services?

 

That may well work :D 

 

 

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Yesterday I received a gift from the postman (is it really a gift if one pays for it oneself?) - three POWSides wagon kits (pre-lettered - I don't fancy rub-down transfers at the moment!). In the pack were two wagons local to Linton (A H Scard of Ash on the SE&CR, and T Bowler of Brookwood on the LSWR), a sheet of transfers for LBSC cattle wagons and brake vans, and, out of period and location, a Robert Reid & Co 7-plank wagon (RCH 1923 type) based in Raynes Park in SW London, where I spent about 15 years growing up. This one will not end up on the layout, but I've never seen this livery on a kit or RTR wagon anywhere, and I wanted it, so. A shelf wagon. I'm still waiting for the final wagon I ordered (White & Beeny of Hailsham) to arrive, although a note was included apologising for its absence and reassuring that it would be sent as soon as possible.

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The sides have been given a coat of matt varnish (sprayed), and will get another coat before I try assembling them, as I've heard horror stories of the lettering coming away on peoples' fingers. I also intend to weather the two black wagons, although I'm not sure how I'll go about making them look grubby - adding black coal dust is hardly going to be noticeable!

I then spent another evening spent working on the Radial at the club. Over a couple of hours of chatting, layout operating and a little research, I managed to add about 3.5 inches of lining to one side of the loco, but that was all of the curves on the bodyside, so I'm fairly happy with that progress. Still a few small spots to touch up, and I'm not quite convinced by the cab cutout lining here though, so I might go back and redo that.

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I also got a much nicer portrait of the numbered side:
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Must get around to lining those steps though!

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For weathering the coal wagons, I imagine lightly layering leather, black and umber shades and blotting them off between each coat before they fully dry, and doing the same on the inside to look like staining, and buffing coal dust inside, too, so it catches in the corners and planking? Outside, maybe make it so that the lettering is largely visible but the number perhaps has been wiped clear a little - that's the more important part, more so than the company name, I'd imagine. 

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You might like to start with a really well thinned down wash of Matt black paint, and a quick wipe with a clean tissue straight after. This will take the fresh paint look off, and leave some dirt in the recesses and joins. You can then get pastel chalks from an art shop, try black, umber brown, sienna brown, a lighter brown, a bright orange red, maybe a mid grey. Rub them on some emery paper, collect the dust produced, and sprinkle it where you want on the wagon, then brush it in with a dry brush. Black generally around the body, more brown lower down on the running gear, the orange to streak the brakeblocks. Cross brush on van roofs. I don’t try to fix it, and if you don’t like it you can just wash it off with water.

if you want to go really scruffy, mix a paste with black and brown powders in water, then paint it on with a brush. Leave it to dry, when it looks horrendously filthy, but then brush off lightly with a dry brush until you’re happy with the effect. If you’re not, just wash off with water again.

Edited by Northroader
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That's helpful, thanks to both of you. I think the thing is that I'm so used to seeing BR bauxite and grey wagons weathered, but private owners are a bit of a new thing to me - the club has three standard gauge layouts, all set in the 1950s-60s BR period! 

I presume a major part of so many coal wagons being painted black was in fact that it didn't show the coal-dust-grime? 

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16 minutes ago, Northroader said:

You might like to start with a really well thinned down wash of Matt black paint, and a quick wipe with a clean tissue straight after. This will take the fresh paint look off, and leave some dirt in the recesses and joins. You can then get pastel chalks from an art shop, try black, umber brown, sienna brown, a lighter brown, a bright orange red, maybe a mid grey. Rub them on some emery paper, collect the dust produced, and sprinkle it where you want on the wagon, then brush it in with a dry brush. Black generally around the body, more brown lower down on the running gear, the orange to streak the brakeblocks. Cross brush on van roofs. I don’t try to fix it, and if you don’t like it you can just wash it off with water.

if you want to go really scruffy, mix a paste with black and brown powders in water, then paint it on with a brush. Leave it to dry, when it looks horrendously filthy, but then brush off lightly with a dry brush until you’re happy with the effect. If you’re not, just wash off with water again.

That sounds like a really good method, but rather than use pure matt black, I would add some dark brown to it.  Few things are truly black and dirt and grime - even from coal - will have at least a hint of brown.

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PO wagons can be gloss black, but they do fade:

 

towneley2.jpg.4b1786c949572a698f9df6e6066ed70c.jpg

 

Towneley Colliery, L&YR Copy Pit line, from the Disused Stations website. I did work out the earliest possible date with reference to the big L&Y van, I forget the conclusion but certainly a few years into the 20th century. I think those two ancient-looking wagons are fresh back from having their dumb buffers sawn off and self-contained sprung buffers fitted.

 

The trick I learned from @jwealleans is to use a wash of half-and-half Humbrol metalcote 201 metallic black and Humbrol 33 matt black (if I've remembered the formula correctly) - or other manufacturer's equivalents. He then goes on to use black weathering powders but I've not progressed that far. This, to my mind, works well on grey or red wagons; I've not tried black though I would be inclinded to use a (non-blue) dark grey in place of the matt black. One aspect of his method I've not had any joy with is using cotton buds - I find these disintegrate and leave threads all over the place. Tissue isn't any better, so I make great use of fingers - resulting in some interesting weathered skin effects for a few days afterwards!

 

Modellers who specialise in modern image grot seem to make great use of browns. I'm not convinced this is appropriate for pre-Grouping weathering - rust isn't relevant. Most discolouration comes either from the direct deposition of atmospheric pollutants, or from their chemical reaction with the paintwork.

 

But I suspect @Andy Hayter would be right in finding me too dogmatically black - I've not yet managed to bring myself to let black down either with white or brown, on the initial "pristine" painting.

 

Have fun with the rub-down LB&SCR transfers!

Edited by Compound2632
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I tend to be cautious with white in black because it is only then that you find whether the black is based on blue, green, brown or black.

 

You are right though that blacks turn up in pristine PO wagons and of course on a number of locomotives, as well as wagon strapping and underframes  etc.  I have no problem using black on any of these as a base.

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