Great Southern Railway (Fictitious) - Signalling the changes...

[Edwardian]

 

Looking more closely at the H&P pictures, I think yours are 8-brake blocked vac fitted vans.  This might make them from the batch of 20 1420s so fitted.  What about the ends?

 

Well, there is a picture of a 1420 dated to 1899, vacuum fitted  with 8 brake blocks.  It is still in SER red. This wagon is said to have been built in 1896, yet it looks to me that it has wooden uprights, not angle irons, to the ends.  This also seems true of a similar vacuum fitted van in an accident photograph dated 1909.

 

 

Dia. 1422s of 1897-9 are pictured with angle-iron uprights to the ends.

 

Many of the 320 later 1422s were built by outside contractors, usually a cause of variations, so a minefield of 600 vans! 

 

EDIT: Picture of vac fitted Dia.1420 

Edited February 9, 2019 by Edwardian

[Compound2632]

Interesting livery detail - number on the end. I think you're right about AVB - clearly clasp brakes:

 

 

[Crop from the previously-linked Huntley & Palmers Collection photo, reproduced in the interest of academic research.]

 

The key question is, do these vehicles have the same body dimensions as the diagram Linny is making?

 

I've just indulged myself by ordering Tatlow's LNER Wagons Vol. 2 (NER, HB&WRJR&DCo, and M&GNJR) and Bixley et al. Southern Wagons Vol. 1 (LSWR and S&DJR) - retail therapy in lieu of modelling - looks like I'm going to have to indulge in Vol. 3 of the latter...

Edited February 9, 2019 by Compound2632

[Edwardian]

20 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Interesting livery detail - number on the end. I think you're right about AVB - clearly clasp brakes:

 

 

 

 

The key question is, do these vehicles have the same body dimensions as the diagram Linny is making?

 

 

 

Yes

 

Of using Linny's kit, obviously you would need to adjust wheel base out to 9'4" and provide suitable brake gear.

 

I think the buffers were longer. 

 

It may help to include this shot, which is the 1909 accident shot and seems to show one of the same batch, it's certainly a fitted one. 

 

You can see some of the brake gear but also what look to me like the ends of two wooden uprights, like those in the H&P picture.

 

Are we looking at a load of smashed biscuits?

 

If so, I guess that's just how the cookie crumbles ...

[Compound2632]

Brilliant! Not enough accident photos of this quality around...

 

I hope Linny isn't going to feel obliged to try to recreate all that gear in laser-cut wood!

 

Are those 3'6" wheels?

[Skinnylinny]

Well, that's a lot of replies to wake up to! Now that I've got most of the body parts sorted out, I can reveal that:

a) I'll be doing wooden end stanchions as well as angle iron ones (indeed, I'm trying out a new approach to the angle iron ones - I might end up including plastruct L section for these)
b) I'll be providing two alternative chassis (each on a separate sheet of parts so the two sets should be harder to muddle up!) for Dia. 1420 and 1422 (they had different sized wheels as well as different wheelbases, so I'll need to "tool up" for that)

 

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I liked Mikkel's description of what you are doing as "democratisation" - making available obscure protoypes in small quantities; I doubt though that you would be able to compete effectively with a (relatively) mass produced injection-moulded kit. 

 

I am aware of the Slaters D299 kit (and also the Bill Bedford one which is currently in production!) so that one's very much tongue in cheek. I'm actually trying to get hold of some MR D299s (I want at least two!), and hadn't twigged that POWSides still offered them. Thank you!

Plenty of food for thought.

[JCL]

Hi Linny, I've just been catching up on your thread, you've definitely cornered the market here with the wagons, they're brilliant!

[Skinnylinny]

Well that lovely rush of energy and purpose seems to have passed a little. I'm still waiting for an appointment to see a psychiatrist re: various mental health things, but the appointment is in April. Just gotta hang in there.

Meanwhile, the strapping has been added to this test-cut SER van, and I added the end angle-iron strapping with some Plastruct L section. This however looks very overscale, and was the smallest I was able to get hold of - nominally 1.5mm. I'll need to further consider what to do here, as the parts would seem to be extremely fiddly and fragile if folded up from card. I think I should be able to get hold of some 1.25mm, but 1mm might look better.

 

I'm also going to ditch the idea of separate buffer beams and instead make them part of the ends, as I'd rather have slightly under-scale-thickness buffer beams on a wagon that goes together reliably than have to try to assemble four floating parts at once with no easy way of aligning them. This means a bit of a re-design but I think I can manage it.

Finally, the Halfords red primer has come out, and it highlights the planking details beautifully! Unfortunately, the "grey black" paint I used on the strapping has turned out more of a light GWR grey than the hoped-for colour, so that's all going to need re-doing. It's getting there though!

 

The Billinton Brake is also now pretty much finished, needing only a chimney and some brake standards - again, need to figure out how I'm going to make those. I suspect either a 3D printed part or a cast one for the standards, and possibly a quick turning for the chimney. Now that I've finished this test-cut, I can start on instructions and building a "finished version" rather than the patched-together one from several variants of kit that you see below.

 

 

[Edwardian]

Hang on in there, Linny.

 

There are some great modelling positives for you to dwell on and a lot of goodwill and support.

 

If I succeed in shoe-horning my new train-length cabinet into the office, I will be able to have short SE&CR and LB&SCR goods trains, so your wagon kits will all suit me down to the ground.  I am fortunate to have a Brighton C Class and SE&CR C and O Class locos.  They just need trains!

 

SER open next?

[Skinnylinny]

The SER open is indeed next, James. I'm having a bit of trouble getting the ends right and not overly thick, but it is definitely on the go. 

 

I hadn't realised that Fox Transfers do SER and LCDR wagon transfers as well as the more standard LBSC, LSWR and SECR ones. They aren't cheap but I'll be acquiring some soon. If all works out well they should be the perfect finishing touch!

[Regularity]

Very nice model.

 

I am married to a shrink, and railway modellers are not unknown to her just in the same way that people from all walks of life turn up, but we do have something we can do to occupy our minds: not everyone has this opportunity.

 

The thing is, modelling can provide a safe refuge from the demands of the “real world” and when you can produce models of such quality, it gives you something to feel good about. Also, most railway modellers are nice people, so it’s good to meet up with them in person or online. 

 

As Mr Edward Ian says, hang on in there.

[Annie]

Stick with it Linny.  I know railway modelling certainly helps to keep me going when I'm having bad days.  There's certainly a few of us here who are wishing you well and are keeping you in their thoughts.

[Andy Hayter]

Another one here trying to send good vibes.

 

If it were not for the (too) few hours of modelling since Christmas I think I would have gone crazy - well that and the grand and supportive company on this part of the board.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Andy Hayter
Typo

[JCL]

Here too Linny, I'm thinking of you over here.

 

On the end angle-iron strapping, if you have some of that oiled board, you could use a bit of that with tabs at the top and bottom and a pair of slots in the end coupled with some of your white label for the other bit. I did that trick with the Barnum coach that needed an iron plate slightly proud of the solebars centred on the bogie. In this case it was a .6mm slot in 1.5mm mdf. Not a good photo, but you can see it below.

 

[Skinnylinny]

Thanks - I'll give that a try! I need to get a chance to sit and experiment properly with the oiled board. I have discovered there is a smaller size of L section plastic of which the local model shop were out of stock. I'll try to pick some up at Glasgow.

 

Meanwhile, it's late at night, but I have had a chance to play around with the laser cutter for a half hour and thus to try out an idea. This idea is a modification of the "turn over the part and engrave the other side" idea, and I gave it a try on the SER open parts I was test cutting. Tests are promising but I still have one or two bugs to iron out.  I didn't bother with different designs on both sides, but behold! Planking on both sides!

 

 

...perhaps this means I need to redraw the Open D wagon kit again to bring the sides closer to scale thickness.
[Edit to add: the end outside framing isn't quite correct on the outer edges due to me misinterpreting the drawings. I've checked this against photographs and it's been corrected!]

Edited February 19, 2019 by Skinnylinny

[Compound2632]

More for the biscuiterie! I see that the sides have the oval plate that I commented on wrt the covered goods wagons in my Huntley & Palmers photo...

[Skinnylinny]

Last night, I was sitting at the club waiting for people to arrive so we could load up our layout, Newcastleton, to take to Model Rail Scotland this weekend, and idly doodling around with the kit design. I was still having trouble with exactly how the end framing and side planking fit together to make a complete wagon. Suddenly, I saw a photograph in a different section of the book taken at a particular angle, so that the sunlight caught everything just perfectly and had an epiphany!

 

The rest of the club night was spent re-drawing, before I headed to the Hacklab, and (after more trouble with the laser - I swear this machine hates me!) managed to produce a stepped-end variant of the wagon. As it was nearing 1am by the time I finished cutting, I gave the parts a quick test-assemble using superglue (hence the imperfect fits - I'll use PVA to allow adjustment time on a "proper" build. The buffer beam needs adjusting but at 2am I called it quits and headed home. However, I'm very happy with this wagon which should break up a rake of flat-topped open wagons nicely!

 

[Skinnylinny]

I'm just on the train to the third day of the Model Rail Scotland exhibition in Glasgow, and thought I'd post a quick update. There is some really exquisite modelling on display. I was especially impressed by Wellpark, based on the Glasgow suburban electric network, which not only screamed "Glasgow" in atmosphere, but specifically "Bellgrove area", which, given Wellpark is a fictional station is an achievement.

 

 

I loved some of the cameos, especially the Celtic and Rangers fans taunting each other from opposite bridges.

 

I also made a couple of purchases - firstly a nicely built whitemetal Stroudley cattle van (granted in IoW condition but I think this can basically be repainted into LBSC livery) for the princely sum of £2.50...

 

 

And then a pair of Southern coaches nicely bashed from Triang clerestories. I'm still trying to find prototypes for these. Currently I'm leaning towards LSWR designs, especially for the brake, where the paneling matches a 48 foot brake third but the coach has an extra compartment. Would this match up with an IoW modified coach?

 

 

Finally I was lucky enough to meet Caley Jim of this parish, and spent probably about an hour over the last few days having a nice blether. Thanks for your time, Jim! I know consciously how tiny 2mmFS stock is, but it still comes as a shock to the system every time to actually see it! 

[Skinnylinny]

Another week, another post...

This week, I've been playing around with an unfinished CAD design, but this one's not for going on the laser! Well, sort of. A friend has access to one of these fancy SLA resin 3D printers in Edinburgh, and I'm hoping to blag a test-print. Now, granted, SketchUp is really not intended for 3D print work, so if this is a success, I will have much more impetus to get onto learning Autodesk Fusion 360.

The amount of work involved in producing 3D models rather than the laser cut ones is rather higher, although it has meant I've been able to include details I wouldn't otherwise have attempted. This is purely a test-piece, a part of a side of an LSWR 48-foot lavatory tri-composite (just the 3rd class end).

 

 

 

Things which are much harder: I can't rely on a single engraved line to suggest details like door lines any more, these have to be drawn in three dimensions as grooves. I keep finding myself drawing parts slightly overscale to compensate for the width of the laser beam, which is no longer necessary. Working on a curved surface to get turnunder is tricky!

Now, obviously the 3D printer won't print these in colour, so I'll have some painting to do, but I'm hopeful that now I have a finished part, I can get a semi-decent print.

[Skinnylinny]

Well, the 48 foot tri-composite artwork is still being modified for use for 3D printing - I've now got the main part of the bodyshell designed, although I need to work on the ends, and one side needs each of its doors flipping left-right so that the handles are always on the right-hand-side of the doors.

My friend with the 3D printer gave it a go, but had to print it on a base due to the shape - this resulted in the part being broken in cleanup, so he sent me the below, rather sad image:

 

What it *does* show, however, is that there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the design, although we printed it at 100 micron layer height (that is, each layer is about 0.1mm - the thickness of a piece of paper). I'd like to have another go, perhaps with a full compartment, and see how that prints. I'm also now looking for a company that could 3D print at a slightly better resolution and finish. Enquiries are ongoing.

The coach body is coming along nicely too - once I've sorted out the far side doors, the next job will be the ends, then the roof ventilators and lamps. Fortunately, those will just involve a lot of copying and pasting once they're drawn up. I'm learning many new techniques in SketchUp, and have found several handy plugins too!

 

Finally, the two coaches bought at the Glasgow show have been repainted, and are now just awaiting having their handrails picked out and lettering added - they look much brighter now, and are seen here on the ELMRC Glendevon layout, along with a train consisting of Hornby M7 and two repainted/modified Ratio coaches. I know the lookout on the guard's coach is way out but that's what these designs are for!

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Skinnylinny

[Edwardian]

Linny,

 

This looks to me like the 6-Lav tri-comp built from 1897; a large diagram of 41 coaches.  Roxey Moulding produce one  (Link) and some were used in the 4 1/2 Sets, a picture of one in such a set is in Weddell. Vol. 1   

 

I have yet to look into likely through coaches for Ilfracombe for the Barnstaple Town project- and I note a brake lav coach specified in an 1896 order - but it seems a plausible coach for me.

[Annie]

Six lavatories!!!  Oh I see it's six compartments that this coach has and not six lavatories.  I do like a good tri-comp coach though since they're ideal for branchlines where train lengths may need to be kept short due to platform lengths.

[Edwardian]

3 hours ago, Annie said:

Six lavatories!!!  Oh I see it's six compartments that this coach has and not six lavatories.  I do like a good tri-comp coach though since they're ideal for branchlines where train lengths may need to be kept short due to platform lengths.

 

Yes, six compartments.

 

No, six lavatories. 

 

One for each compartment: 2 for each class. 

[Skinnylinny]

Indeed - one for each of smoking and non-smoking in each of the three classes!

It is indeed the 1897 design, and while I'm aware that Roxey make a lovely kit for such a coach, given my last attempt at an etched brass carriage kit is currently a somewhat mangled mess with some nasty creases in it, I am experimenting with this as an approach. I don't know whether it'll ever make it into "mass" production, but if it works, there'd be nothing to prevent me providing people with kits.

I've also seen that Knuckles of this parish (in his role as Sparkshot Custom Creations) has finished printing my test piece and put up a picture on Twitter - this should be with me in the next few days and I'll examine it closely before deciding how much further I want to go with this.

 

Worst case, I have a nicely-drawn LSWR carriage in SketchUp... Just needs some bogies, ventilators, lamps, and a few more bolts on the solebars, underframe details...

Edited March 12, 2019 by Skinnylinny

[Edwardian]

Looks very good indeed. This is a very positive step. 

 

Do you have Weddell Vol 1?  I think I have sent some scans to you in the past, including the for the 8' Fox bogie. Close-up pictures will be essential; the transverse springs are quite meaty and were certainly too weedy on the DJ M/Kernow version (but those coaches were utter crap all round).

 

I'll happily do CAD review of any LSW for you pre-production.

 

Someone should be asked to do transfers for the frosted lav windows, which have the company design on them. 

 

EDIT: Weddell includes a good drawing showing hos SW coach sides and panelling were constructed and layered at this period.  Have you seen this, because it's worth checking your design against this.

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Edwardian

[Skinnylinny]

I managed to get Weddell Vol. 1 at the Glasgow show a few weeks back - I may have been rather excited. I'd had Vol. 2 for a while. I've had a look at the diagram and I think I've got things right, although I stand to be corrected (fair warning though - corrections may cause blue language at the amount of things I'd have to redraw!).

Regarding the windows, I hear that acetate sheet laser cuts nicely, which means I might prepare a sheet of laser-cut windows for the carriage, designed to slot into recesses inside the body. I am also aware that certain clear plastics (at least clear acrylic, although I want to try it with acetate too) can be laser-etched. I don't seem to have a drawing of the design, though - I'll need to do some more research there. The LSWR brake third at the Bluebell certainly appears to have plain frosted glass.

I think that after this evening I've managed to get a torpedo ventilator drawn up, from just two photographs and two quoted dimensions in the text. There doesn't actually seem to be a drawing of this ubiquitous component anywhere in the book! It was a struggle to draw up, keeping in mind the limitations of the printing process and also fighting SketchUp which doesn't like drawing tiny (sub-0.1mm) parts. I might produce some roofs with holes for whitemetal ventilators and lamps, although the ones produced by Markits are the wrong sort (oval, rather than the distinctive circular ones on this coach) - a source of the correct type would be much appreciated!