Skinnylinny Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 Thanks Ian, I'll give those a look a little later today! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted April 22, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 22, 2019 Quite basic, but got me around the menus and shortcuts and positioning. Good to have videos as well as written. Hope you find them of use. Cheers Ian in Blackpool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Can I just say I have no idea what any of you guys are talking about? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted April 22, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 22, 2019 Very interesting. I'd learned 3D in Maya (about 10 years ago now) and would have liked to have continued it after university but the cost was prohibitive. I have tried to learn sketchup and Blender since but I just can't get my head around them. I wonder is Fusion 360, being another Autodesk product, would be an easier transition? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted April 22, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 22, 2019 Well Corbs, it is free on a years recurring license. Something to do with being a 'hobbyist'. There is stuff to see, just google. The Warwick tutorials got me started quickly - I had used PTC ProDesktop before but that was 20 years ago when I was a D&T teacher and no longer available. It seems to do most of what I am trying to achieve so far but I haven't tried adding bits together yet. Cheers Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 Not only is it free for hobbyists and personal use, Fusion 360 is also free for small businesses (their definition of which is "You can use this license if you are a small business making less than $100,000 per year (or equivalent)."). This means that it's perfectly fine to sell things you've designed using the free version of their software, as long as you're not making more than about £75,000 a year! Frankly, if I were making that sort of money from Fusion 360 designs, I'd be happy to pay them $500 a year for the software. 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) Thanks to the tutorials Ian linked to, I think I'm starting to get a feel for Fusion 360 at last! This evening has mostly been spent following tutorials to design Christmas tree decorations and egg cups, but I decided to have a go and see whether I could re-draw my Open D (which I'd already drawn up in SketchUp for laser cutting. It's taking a while longer, as I'm still very much learning my way around the software and figuring bits out as I go, but I'm quite proud of this so far! A lot of what was muscle memory in SketchUp needs attention - extruding is now using the E key rather than the P, for example - but many of the concepts are the same, albeit considered in different ways, and there are so many more options to play around with! It's a pity I have to go to work tomorrow, as this has really fired up my enthusiasm again and I'd rather like to just stay in and draw! Edited April 22, 2019 by Skinnylinny 11 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 Well, it's been another week or so (and what a week!) where no physical modelling has happened. A little more tweaking here and there of 3D CAD models, but nothing much. Everything has been waiting until today. The first payday from the new job. I have just about given up hope of the laser cutter ever being usable at vaguely reasonable times. I did look into the possibility of acquiring a cutter for myself but was looking at the multiple thousand pounds range for something good enough for my purposes. Moreover I was finding that I was getting frustrated with the limitations of the shapes that could be produced with laser-cut card and wood. While I'm very pleased with the coaches and wagons I managed to produce, they were never exactly finescale models, and the amount of time that the laser cutter required for setup was getting to be excessive - sometimes it could take me an hour to wrangle the (very buggy) software into submission to cut out one wagon kit! That and the fact that the laser cutter can't be left unattended while cutting meant that it was becoming less and less of an appropriate way to do things. So! With a fresh paycheque burning a hole in my (metaphorical) pocket, I made the decision, clicked "Buy" on a well-known online market site, and now have an Anycubic Photon resin 3D printer on its way to me, along with some other bits and pieces that should be useful. I fully expect this, as with all tools, to have a steep learning curve (especially as I know that it has a habit of printing parts oversize in two dimensions, though that can be worked through at the design stage), but having seen the prints that can come off such a printer (witness the LSWR tricompo parts above!), I am excited to try out some other projects on it. I can now reveal that I have been working on a complete redesign of my Stroudley coaches, this time for 3D printing. So far, the following designs have been completed: D41 Composite (4 Wheel) D43 Second (4 Wheel) D44 Third (4 Wheel) D45 Brake Third (4 Wheel) D47/222 Full Brake (4 Wheel) and currently in progress is the D37 First (6 Wheel)/D37A Second (converted from the D37, with no external differences) and D46 Full Brake (6 Wheel) - these to allow me to recreate the fixed set that ran on the Cranleigh Line, being formed up: Loco + D46 Brake 334 + D44 Third 338 + D37 First 681 + D37A Second 238 + D44 Third 1016 + D46 Brake 303 For my time period, I'll need to draw up gas lighting parts too... I attach some CAD renders to show what I'm talking about. Hopefully these should be well within the reaches of this printer... 6 1 7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) Incidentally, I've just been looking at one of those printers with a view to purchase... The only thing I would say is that the laser cut kits were inexpensive, so offered a reasonably priced alternative for those of us who (generally speaking) couldn't really afford a full set from Smallbrook/Roxey/Bachmann. However, I understand why you can no longer offer them. The Stroudleys look fantastic and I really look forward to seeing more on them! Are you intending to make them available in some form, be that as physical prints or as files for one to print themselves? Edited April 30, 2019 by sem34090 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 You might have certain other RMWebbers knocking on your door asking to print stuff then... From experience, you may want to do those handrails and door handles separately (from wire), I've had a fair few bits like that fail. I find a minimum wall thickness/diameter of 0.75mm seems to work reliably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, TurboSnail said: You might have certain other RMWebbers knocking on your door asking to print stuff then... From experience, you may want to do those handrails and door handles separately (from wire), I've had a fair few bits like that fail. I find a minimum wall thickness/diameter of 0.75mm seems to work reliably. That's helpful advice about the wire parts, thank you. The door handles are simply solid "blobs" against the bodyshell - not exactly to scale perhaps but so much stronger than a scale-shaped handle. The grab rails might yet end up either as separate plug-in parts or being replaced by mounting points for the Roxey Mouldings etched ones. I'm fully intending to use these designs to test the limits of the printer. I suspect I'll need quite a while to get used to the whys and wherefores of this printer before I'd be happy to offer a printing service - it was a couple of months of regular use of the laser cutter before I got kits to cut reliably, and now I'm working full-time? All I'll say is "don't hold your breath!" 5 hours ago, sem34090 said: Incidentally, I've just been looking at one of those printers with a view to purchase... The only thing I would say is that the laser cut kits were inexpensive, so offered a reasonably priced alternative for those of us who (generally speaking) couldn't really afford a full set from Smallbrook/Roxey/Bachmann. However, I understand why you can no longer offer them. The Stroudleys look fantastic and I really look forward to seeing more on them! Are you intending to make them available in some form, be that as physical prints or as files for one to print themselves? As regards the laser cut parts, I might still be able to make some of them available for folks I know, but I suspect that without batch-producing (which isn't possible while the cutter can't be used before 8pm) it's not cost-effective on a commercial level. Depending on how they turn out, I might be prepared to offer the Stroudleys (and any other models that happen) to those who ask nicely (Whether in file form or physical prints remains to be seen - it seems that I'd have to adjust my designs for the Photon in order for them to print correctly). I don't know what sort of price these would work out at. Edited April 30, 2019 by Skinnylinny 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted May 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1, 2019 Hi Linny, I would agree with what has been said about the handrails etc. I have just printed this 4mm version of the Dia 81 horsebox to see how the machine handled larger objects. I have included everything on the side that is visible. The handle and handrail need removing and the side to be made thicker so it is less fragile, probably with a rebated edge for where the end will sit. It was printed at 0.035 with a 20 degree slope from the horizontal. I did print the other side as well and now need to draw and print the ends. An etched chassis I think! I will have to experiment on using different angles to the horizontal to get a better finish as well, but also need to understand why one of the supports have come right through and appears by the lower door hinge on the left hand side. Weird! Anyway, absolutely astonished at how quickly you can draw things and how do you get them rendered or is that in another programme? Cheers Ian 4 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 Hi Ian, First of all, I have to say that you D81 horsebox looks gorgeous! Funnily enough, I have one that I made using laser-cut parts, and the amount of extra detail you've managed to include (hinges, bolts, door and grab handles etc) shows just what is possible with skilled CAD work and a good 3D printer. In true Blue Peter style, here's one I made earlier! When designing this, it looks like I forgot to take account of the laser beam width when designing some of the smaller parts, so the drop-door hinge straps are a little underscale. Regarding the grab handles, it's impressive that you've managed to get them to print, and they look commendably fine (although I would suspect also therefore fragile?). Are they round in profile? May I ask how thick they are? For the renders of the Stroudley carriages, these were drawn up in SketchUp (as I'd originally thought I could use some parts of the laser-cutting Stroudley CAD to draw these - that turned out not to be possible with the exception of the end profile!) and that is simply the view in the program with parts appropriately coloured. If you're using Fusion, it has a Render mode, and you can assign different materials to bodies for different colours. I've not yet played around with this much yet. You flatter me with references to my design speed, but these have been quietly in progress for several weeks! It's taken a lot of self-control not to publish the pictures, and I'd been hoping to wait until I had a print to hand, but impatience has finally got the better of me. 4 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ianmaccormac Posted May 2, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 2, 2019 Thanks Linny As for the grab handles, I drew this in 7mm where I drew the shape on a plane at 45 degrees. This was then extruded 0.4mm thickness and had a fillet modify applied on all four corners of 0.12mm. After drawing the whole thing, I scaled it to 4mm on the modify, scale setting of 0.5714. So the actual printed grabrail came out at 0.23mm diameter which is about the minimum I have found I can print successfully. The fact that they are no good is because they sag as they are not supported at all. I have also noticed there is a slight sagging to the ventilator as this was hollow and not supported. I will make some more modifications and try again. I have also increased the thickness of the 4mm side by 0.4mm and this has given a better, more stable thickness. I will try one in 7mm as well once I have the 4mm one printing well. Cheers Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 Good grief, that's much finer than I'd drawn - my handrails were drawn as 0.5mm square section (not correct but at that size I thought more robust). I've mostly kept coach sides about the 0.8-1mm thick range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 Excitement. That is all. 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) As much as I'd encourage you to get into the 3d printing, is it not possible to continue the laser-cut stuff economically by outsourcing (as well as printing, I mean)? I think 4d modelshop offers a cutting service, I'm sure many other places do as well. I fear 3D printing coaches may put them out of my price range... Edited May 3, 2019 by TurboSnail 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 Unfortunately a large part of why I was able to offer the laser cut parts so cheaply was that I had very cheap access to a cutter and I wasn't really charging for my time at the cutter (the machine can't be left unattended while cutting flammables - such as MDF and card - as it's a fire risk) because I could do other things at the same time. I could look into York Modelmaking but I suspect that there would be a hefty price increase. I also don't know the spec of the machines they use and so I couldn't guarantee that the bits would fit together as well as I could by test-fitting as I went. The laser cut bits are not permanently out of production, but I don't know when they'll be back. I'm fully intending to make any 3D printed bits I make as cheap as possible - I intend to offer models with supports still attached so I won't be charging for my work cleaning up the print, for example. 3 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Skinnylinny said: Unfortunately a large part of why I was able to offer the laser cut parts so cheaply was that I had very cheap access to a cutter and I wasn't really charging for my time at the cutter (the machine can't be left unattended while cutting flammables - such as MDF and card - as it's a fire risk) because I could do other things at the same time. I could look into York Modelmaking but I suspect that there would be a hefty price increase. I also don't know the spec of the machines they use and so I couldn't guarantee that the bits would fit together as well as I could by test-fitting as I went. The laser cut bits are not permanently out of production, but I don't know when they'll be back. I'm fully intending to make any 3D printed bits I make as cheap as possible - I intend to offer models with supports still attached so I won't be charging for my work cleaning up the print, for example. Fair enough. If they're as beautifully crafted as your laser cut kits I look forward to it. Edited May 3, 2019 by RedGemAlchemist 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 Well, the printer has arrived, been set up, and is currently undergoing its first test-print - a set of axleguards, buffers and brake parts for a Stroudley coach... It's quite hard to get a photograph of such small parts coming out of the liquid goo at the bottom of the printer, so I paused the print to have a look and they seem to be coming along nicely. Remembering that the model prints upside-down, you can see the two axleboxes sticking out downwards, and the end of the spring hanger to the left... Give me another hour and I should be able to show an (uncured) print fresh off the bed! 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Skinnylinny said: Well, the printer has arrived, been set up, and is currently undergoing its first test-print - a set of axleguards, buffers and brake parts for a Stroudley coach... It's quite hard to get a photograph of such small parts coming out of the liquid goo at the bottom of the printer, so I paused the print to have a look and they seem to be coming along nicely. Remembering that the model prints upside-down, you can see the two axleboxes sticking out downwards, and the end of the spring hanger to the left... Give me another hour and I should be able to show an (uncured) print fresh off the bed! Watching them is kind of mesmerising, isn't it? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 Well, I had one print that worked (the axleguard, spring and axlebox units), and one which didn't (the buffers and detail parts), the base of which curled up and came off the build plate, meaning the part stuck to the film halfway through the print. Not quite "plug and play" but a good start. I've repositioned the model on the printer bed and added some more supports - will see how this one prints. First thoughts: While the grooves in the springs haven't printed correctly, the bolt details have come out quite crisply. I shall have to experiment a lot more with many small prints. Second thoughts: This transparent green is a nightmare to take photographs of! 4 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted May 6, 2019 Author Share Posted May 6, 2019 A print was put on overnight, and this time I have a complete set of brakes and buffers for a Stroudley carriage. Add these to the axleguards etc and... I think it is time for a bigger test print. One advantage of these resin printers is that if a print fails (by not sticking to the build plate and staying attached to the FEP film at the bottom), you don't waste gallons and gallons of resin - just one or two layers' worth - as they just form a skin on the film, blocking any more resin from being solidified, and stopping it from being wasted. This is an advantage over the FDM (squirty nozzle) types, where you end up with a pile of plastic spaghetti of filament that the printer has merrily extruded despite there being nothing underneath it... With that in mind... I'm out for the day today so when I come back this will either have printed, or failed. I'm expecting a failure around about the floor level, but we shall see. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 You will probably get a better print tilting the body by 30 degrees. As configured you will get prominent stepping on the lower panels. The downside is it will take longer to print. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted May 6, 2019 Author Share Posted May 6, 2019 Hi Mike, I've considered tilting the body but given the trouble with oversize printing in the XY plane, it is much easier to adjust the CAD to account for that if the model is printed flat against the base. I'm slightly worried that the large floor area might not detach cleanly from the FEP film, but hopefully there are enough supports to prevent that. I'm definitely using the first few prints as a learning experience and to get a feel for the tool in a way that it's hard to do from videos and pictures. I'll probably try a tilted print too. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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