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Skinnylinny

Great Southern Railway (Fictitious) - Mr. Adams' Finest

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14 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

Should I be going for a 1st/2nd composite, or a tricompo? 

 

From a purely theoretical standpoint and with no detailed knowledge of LSWR carriage working*, I'd have thought that in a "suburban" train, a first/second composite would be more likely than a tricomposite, the latter being more favoured as a single carriage for through workings. But from reading the Roxey website, I gather the LSWR had first/third and second/third composites too. 

 

For comparison with other lines, the LNWR, which also persisted with second class for far too long, built large numbers of 50ft carriages around the turn of the century, mostly formed in fixed sets for particular services. For the Birmingham New Street - Sutton Coldfield trains, there were seven-carriage sets with every carriage different: brake third / third / first/third composite / first / first/second composite / second / brake second. That gives 15 first, 16 second and 17 third class compartments. In more-or-less direct competition with this, the sets of 48ft carriages built on 1907/8 for the New Street - Walsall services of the Midland, via the Sutton Park line, were made up brake third / first / third / brake third - 7 firsts and 20 thirds - or brake third / third / first / first / third / brake third - 14 firsts and 28 thirds. Rather similar proportions, indicating that in the absence of second class, passengers chose third rather than first class. 

 

*I would like to know the make-up of LSWR Waterloo-Reading trains around the turn of the century, I became very familiar with the eight-carriage sets in use a century later!

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Hi Michael, 

Both coaches are LSWR 42' coaches, the painted full third and the unpainted brake third. 

 

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Well, I have found a photograph in G R Weddell's LSWR Carriages Volume One: 1838-1900 which seems to show the following rake:

 

30' 6-wheeled brake

42' bogie third

42'6" bogie tricompo

42' bogie third

6 wheel brake (indistinct)

 

Sadly there's no date for the photo, but it gives an idea of how variable the class makeup of such trains could be. Rather than having a one-size-fits-all LSWR passenger train, it looks like I'll need to consider the expected clientele for any given train. Thus the early morning express to London might be better served for first and second class, with newer, bogie coaches, while the local stopping services to Ascot, Brookwood and Guildford might lean more third-heavy with older, four and six wheel stock. 

 

Who'd have thought running a railway could be so complicated? 

 

20190911_081454.jpg.7a1752e52ad7914ee6d7363055818c00.jpg20190911_074524.jpg.0f34da60d197b84bf7fecfa4bd96648d.jpg

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Fantastic modelling going on here. Where did you get the Maunsell pattern wheels please Linny?

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Thanks, Jack. The bright metal ones were from the bits box at my local model shop. The black ones are, I think, Alan Gibson 14mm ones from H & A Models (no connection, satisfied customer, etc), from where you can also get 12mm Mansell wheels. 

Edited by Skinnylinny

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Just to clarify, they're not suitable for Maunsell stock, Jack, if that's what you're thinking.

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2 hours ago, Jack P said:

Fantastic modelling going on here. Where did you get the Maunsell pattern wheels please Linny?

 

Mansells.

 

2 options I've used:

 

- The aforementioned Alan Gibson 14mm Mansells

 

- Finding I had some surplus Bachmann and Hornby disc coach wheels, I stuck MJT/Dart Castings white-metal Mansell inserts - worked really well.  If you are back-dating a coach or otherwise already have coach wheels, this is a great way to go. 

 

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10 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

Well, I have found a photograph in G R Weddell's LSWR Carriages Volume One: 1838-1900 which seems to show the following rake:

 

30' 6-wheeled brake

42' bogie third

42'6" bogie tricompo

42' bogie third

6 wheel brake (indistinct)

 

Sadly there's no date for the photo, but it gives an idea of how variable the class makeup of such trains could be. Rather than having a one-size-fits-all LSWR passenger train, it looks like I'll need to consider the expected clientele for any given train. Thus the early morning express to London might be better served for first and second class, with newer, bogie coaches, while the local stopping services to Ascot, Brookwood and Guildford might lean more third-heavy with older, four and six wheel stock. 

 

Who'd have thought running a railway could be so complicated? 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_09/20190911_081454.jpg.7a1752e52ad7914ee6d7363055818c00.jpghttps://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_09/20190911_074524.jpg.0f34da60d197b84bf7fecfa4bd96648d.jpg

I was going to suggest looking in Weddell - I've only got volume 2, which is where the block set info came from.

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11 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

Well, I have found a photograph in G R Weddell's LSWR Carriages Volume One: 1838-1900 which seems to show the following rake:

 

30' 6-wheeled brake

42' bogie third

42'6" bogie tricompo

42' bogie third

6 wheel brake (indistinct)

 

 

That strikes me as a very low proportion of first and second compartments for such an affluent area - considering the 1:1:1 split (or 1:2 in the absence of second) on the Birmingham suburban services I mentioned - Sutton Coldfield considers itself posh now (and did then) but it's not Virginia Water.

Edited by Compound2632

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I was surprised too! There is the possibility that the photo shows ECS being stored, rather than a revenue earning train. I'm probably going to lean a little heavier towards the 1st/2nd end with a tricompo and a 1/2 compo six wheeler, to give :

 

14 3rd compartments

4 2nd compartments

5 1st compartments

 

Unless I ditch the full third, but... Hmmmm... 

I need to keep in mind my platform lengths too, which are intended to just hold three 60 footers. 

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I was looking at some S&DJR trains c. 1900 - a truly rural line - a standard formation of five 6-wheelers was not so dissimilar from yours, but still with a higher ratio of first class: brake / 5-compt third / 4-compt first / 5-compt third. Lots of luggage / parcels space. Another rather similar situation on Midland services on the Evesham line. I mentioned the Birmingham suburban services - these used 6-compartment brake thirds. The 48 ft carriages provided for the Evesham services (contemporary with the other sets I discussed) were formed brake third / third / composite / brake third. The composites had 7 compartments, like the firsts used on the Birmingham suburban services, but divided up 4 first / 3 third. The brakes had just 4 third class compartments, i.e. a much larger luggage / parcels space - clearly rural trains were dealing with a much higher proportion of non-human passenger-rated traffic than purely suburban services, as one might expect. Overall the accommodation was 4 first / 19 third, not so far off that LSWR rake.

 

Conclusion: late 19th century Surrey was much more rural than one might suppose.

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So, an update:

 

My laptop is (quite literally) falling apart. One of the hinges has somehow torn itself apart. A new laptop has been ordered, being a slight upgrade, but this has somewhat wiped out my modelling budget for the next month or two. However, I've got plenty of kits, card, and scale drawings to keep me busy for the next little while. My card modelling experience has actually been coming in useful at work too, so I suppose that's good. 

 

I'll still be going to the Uckfield show in October, as I've already bought my bus tickets down, and it would be lovely to bump into any of you who happen to make it there. I continue to be recognisable by the brightly coloured hair! 

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5 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

My laptop is (quite literally) falling apart. One of the hinges has somehow torn itself apart. 

 

I'll still be going to the Uckfield show in October, as I've already bought my bus tickets down, and it would be lovely to bump into any of you who happen to make it there. I continue to be recognisable by the brightly coloured hair! 

 

Same thing happened to my laptop a while back, fixed it with an offcut of steel sheet and some spare loco bolts!

 

I was planning to give the Uckfield show a miss under the excuse that the one and a half hour drive was too far - which I guess I can't use now if you're coming down from Scotland! Might have to reconsider - could tie in nicely with a trip to the Bluebell...

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2 hours ago, TurboSnail said:

I was planning to give the Uckfield show a miss under the excuse that the one and a half hour drive was too far

 

It'll be well worth the trip. I say that as a completely non-biased person of course.

 

Gary

Membership Secretary (Hon)

Uckfield Model Railway Club

 

 

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13 hours ago, TurboSnail said:

I was planning to give the Uckfield show a miss under the excuse that the one and a half hour drive was too far - which I guess I can't use now if you're coming down from Scotland! Might have to reconsider - could tie in nicely with a trip to the Bluebell...

I can definitely say that if the show is as good as it was last year (and from what I've heard it should be!) it will be well worth the drive. There was some absolutely exquisite modelling last year, and a good supply of traders too. Made a nice change for me to be able to get hold of Southern stuff, which is usually hard to find up in Scotland! 

 

To clarify, not only am I coming down from Scotland, I'm coming up by overnight coach, and going back down the same way. I'm sure Gary will forgive me if I fall asleep around lunchtime on his couch! 

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39 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said:

I can definitely say that if the show is as good as it was last year (and from what I've heard it should be!) it will be well worth the drive. There was some absolutely exquisite modelling last year, and a good supply of traders too. Made a nice change for me to be able to get hold of Southern stuff, which is usually hard to find up in Scotland! 

 

To clarify, not only am I coming down from Scotland, I'm coming up by overnight coach, and going back down the same way. I'm sure Gary will forgive me if I fall asleep around lunchtime on his couch! 

 

Well, I've got no excuse then! I'll make the effort...

 

Any recommendations on which day to visit the show? If I can spend one day at the show and one on the Bluebell Railway then it should make a pretty good weekend!

 

(maybe I should stop hijacking Linny's thread for this!)

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Feel free to keep hijacking! If it means more of the lovely pre-grouping lot show up, so much the better. 

 

I'll be there both days, and the show opening hours will be the same both days. I usually reckon on the first day of the exhibition being the best day to grab any bargains, myself. I may need steering away from South Eastern Finecast and Roxey Mouldings, even with my dodgy soldering skills... 

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31 minutes ago, TurboSnail said:

Any recommendations on which day to visit the show?

 

Saturday if you want bargains from the second hand traders, however Sunday is the best overall day as it is a lot quieter.

 

Gary

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1 hour ago, BlueLightning said:

 

Saturday if you want bargains from the second hand traders, however Sunday is the best overall day as it is a lot quieter.

 

Gary

 

Sunday it is then! See you there, and hopefully some of the other pre-grouping folk :)

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I'll look forward to meeting you!! Ask any of the club members for me (or the purple headed one™) and they will know roughly where I am. There will be at least 3 current of former RMWeb Pre-groupers there over the weekend, I have advised everyone to come Sunday, so hopefully we can all meet!

 

Gary

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Returning briefly to modelling, I've decided that I'm not at all happy with the painting of the card LSWR carriages, so I'll be cutting out a new set of parts for each of them and airbrushing them rather than brush painting. Part of the difficulty with painting card is its absorbency, which leads to the paint thickening even as it flows off the brush. 

 

Alternatively, I could look into using shellac - can shellacked card be laser cut? This might give beading parts a little more strength as they can be extremely flimsy in raw card. Something to experiment with... 

 

Meanwhile, I'm hoping that I've left my lining transfers at the club. I've not been able to find anywhere that will print me a one-off sheet of transfers in white that doesn't either have a long waiting list or prices above what I can afford, so I'm going to try some hand-painted curves... 

 

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You could shellac the card after assembly and then paint it, either that or give it a thin coat of watered down pva. 

 

Jim 

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I considered that, but given how flimsy some of the bits are, I'd rather do it beforehand. I don't want to go near this with a paintbrush of anything! At least not until it is firmly glued to something more solid... Flimsy is not the word. Some of these bits can be bent by literally breathing on them funny... 

 

20190905_192216.jpg.89acd8cd309489cd024ae6ec89ad7090.jpg

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Once it's glued to the end it will be OK.

 

Jim 

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