Imaginary Rolling Stock

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

'What abomination could be created by mating a mk1 coach to a 6 wheel chassis?' Asked no one. But I gave it a go any way.

 

Here we have an SK, FK (with loo), BSK (with loo), and a BG... all of which look horrific to ride in

 

I have 'cut and shut' a Wrenn/Hornby-Dublo Mk. I horsebox body and fitted it to the Airfix/Dapol cattle wagon chassis to make a 'Mk. I road van' and a modeller friend has done something similar using a Lima Mk. II bodyshell.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

 

 

I've never like lwb two axle freight wagons, so here are a couple for my 'improved' speedlink network... 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[The Johnster]

6 wheel mk1s; my eyes, my beautiful eyes...

 

But the Germans did something not dissimilar with their standard steel stock, some of which I saw running in the 60s.  Can't help thinking that a more likely UK scenario would have been based on the CCT underframe, though. perhaps a car carrier with compartments.

Edited September 2, 2019 by The Johnster

[Steamport Southport]

Surely the BGZ is not that much difference to a modernised LMS Stove R and they were built in their hundreds and survived until the mid 1970s.

 

 

 

Jason

[PhilJ W]

More likely to be four wheels rather than six, de-motored 142 anyone? The Victorians went from four wheels to six as stock got larger and heavier, then as stronger steel wheels were developed in place of the wooden centre Maunsel wheels many six wheelers had the centre axle removed.

[Joseph_Pestell]

3 hours ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

'What abomination could be created by mating a mk1 coach to a 6 wheel chassis?' Asked no one. But I gave it a go any way.

 

Here we have an SK, FK (with loo), BSK (with loo), and a BG... all of which look horrific to ride in

 

 

Nothing wrong with the idea. But I think you will find it wants an extra compartment per coach and a longer chassis. Takes you closer to the proportions of the German stock.

[DavidB-AU]

Deutsche Bundesbahn built 6,500 Umbauwagen ("rebuild coach") like this. They were longer than the above because they had thousands of old Länderbahn coaches available, mainly with non-corridor wooden bodies. I don't have figures but some of them had been damaged or burnt during the war so there was little more than the frame left anyway. They built new steel bodies with (then) quite modern interiors on the old chassis. In 1958 they made up 25% of the DB coach fleet. Most survived into the 1970s and some into the 1980s.

 

 

If you were absolutely restricted to rebuilding on existing chassis, you could use something like an X-FISH, Stove R or Siphon E. What was the largest number of 6 wheel passenger rated vehicles around in, say, 1950?

 

Now what would be slightly more uncomfortable would be a cut down Mk1 on a CCT or PMV chassis.

 

EDIT: Or truly horrific, a High Speed Freight Vehicle chassis. Which is effectively an unpowered Pacer.......!!!! ARGH!!!!

 

EDIT2: DB built bogie versions of the Umbauwagen from 1956 onwards, again with new steel bodies on old Länderbahn frames and bogies. They used many of the same components as the 6 wheel versions such as doors, windows and seats. Imagine Mk 1 bodies on pre-grouping frames.

 

Cheers
David

Edited September 3, 2019 by DavidB-AU

[BernardTPM]

Of course the Southern Region did similar with EMUs. Chassis that had been built new pre-war but fitted with 3-SUB (later 4-SUB) bodies made largely from steam hauled stock had the old wooden bodies removed and replaced with Bulleid style bodies (because they fitted the frame length) to make 'new' EPB stock in the 1950s, lasting into the 1980s.

[Bloodnok]

15 hours ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

'What abomination could be created by mating a mk1 coach to a 6 wheel chassis?' Asked no one. But I gave it a go any way.

Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction...

Edited September 3, 2019 by Bloodnok

[Satan's Goldfish]

Hmmmmm, would a pacer have been a bit Less bad on a 6 wheel chassis?...

[PhilJ W]

36 minutes ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

Hmmmmm, would a pacer have been a bit Less bad on a 6 wheel chassis?...

Probably unable to negotiate some of the tighter curves. If you wanted to add a couple of extra axles how about making the articulated with three bogies?

Edited September 3, 2019 by PhilJ W
spill chucker

[Satan's Goldfish]

19 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Probably unable to negotiate some of the tighter curves. If you wanted to add a couple of extra axles how about making the articulated with three bogies?

 

The thought did cross my mind, would seem the most sensible way to deal with them.

[DavidB-AU]

28 minutes ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

 

The thought did cross my mind, would seem the most sensible way to deal with them.

 

The most sensible way to deal with Pacers involves a blow torch.

 

Cheers

David

[PhilJ W]

Apparently three Pacer bodyshells are up for grabs free of charge. The DoT is offering them to comunity groups etc. who have to come up with why they need one.

[Satan's Goldfish]

8 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Apparently three Pacer bodyshells are up for grabs free of charge. The DoT is offering them to comunity groups etc. who have to come up with why they need one.

 

......hmmmm, why would a community need a pacer body shell...... 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

11 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Apparently three Pacer bodyshells are up for grabs free of charge. The DoT is offering them to community groups etc. who have to come up with why they need one.

In similarly charitable mode I have come up with a statement of need for anyone who wants to use it.

 

As a group of long term passengers in these vehicles, we have taken qualified advice on an effective 'erase the awful memories by violent destruction of the perpetrating machine' therapy, for which purpose one of these vehicles is a necessity.

[Steamport Southport]

How many people who criticise Pacers have actually used them regularly....

 

If it wasn't for Pacers much of the network would be well gone including most of the commuter lines in the North.

 

 

 

Jason

[woodenhead]

The only thing wrong with them is their age now.

 

Demonising them has helped politically to get them replaced so that rail users in the Southwest, Wales and the north get decent new trains.

 

What is actually replacing the Pacers are Sprinters.

[sir douglas]

ive never had any bad riding with the pacers but then again ive only used them on reasonable or good track; wakefield kirkgate to Elsecar, Agbrigg to Leeds or Leeds to Keighley

[Satan's Goldfish]

6 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Probably unable to negotiate some of the tighter curves. If you wanted to add a couple of extra axles how about making the articulated with three bogies?

 

Class 153 bogies, added centre coach for sh1ts and giggles.

 

[woodenhead]

Space for a nice big toilet too

[DavidB-AU]

A couple of horrifying thoughts I posted in another topic.

 

 

The "modern" teak Quadart. Ironically before the LNER name was actually revived!

 

Cheers

David

[rockershovel]

21 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

How many people who criticise Pacers have actually used them regularly....

 

If it wasn't for Pacers much of the network would be well gone including most of the commuter lines in the North.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Well, exactly. They were a functional, cost-effective solution to a real-world problem; nasty things but good engineering. 

 

Often the way with railways. The 3+2 seating electrics which were the first iteration of the electrified ECML South of Peterborough were horrible things, totally inadequate for the task, which deserved every insult and complaint thrown their way; but I dare say they were successful in their original role. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by rockershovel

[The Johnster]

I do use Pacers regularly, though not admittedly on a daily basis, and do not like them.  The ride and seating are inferior to the 116 dmus they replaced in South Wales, and the suspension gives an interesting bounce that will compress your spine in about 10 minutes of continual running at 70 mph between Cardiff and Ebbw Jc on an Ebbw Vale train.  The doors are draughty, seats cramped, and upholstery a bit thin and hard.  Most local buses are better, and I will not be in the least sorry to see the back of 'em.  Replacement by Sprinters is fine by me; I have long ago accepted that the last time South Wales got a new design of train was in 1958 and we'll never get another one.

 

I'd have to accept that, from the operator's pov, they've done their job well, cheaply, and reliably for many years and assisted in the extension of the Valleys network to Aberdare, Maesteg, Ebbw Vale, and the Vale of Glamorgan line.  They've been thrashed for years and seem to thrive on it.  But a 4 wheel vehicle is just not acceptable in the 21st century, or the late 20th for that matter.  

 

On the political side of the argument, I note that none of these trains has ever run in the South East of England, even when they were the latest thing.  I wonder why?

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

30 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

On the political side of the argument, I note that none of these trains has ever run in the South East of England, even when they were the latest thing.  I wonder why?

 

You'd have to couple about 30 of them together to carry the volume of commuters for one...