Track Cleaning Fluid - Which is best?

[TheQ]

42 minutes ago, Torper said:

I'm not too sure about that video.  Forst, he uses a Peco track rubber which while it has its supporters also has a lot of critics.  Secondly, he uses IPA - again, while there are lots of people who favour that, there are lots who don't.  Tbirdly, he fulminates against "WD40 or similar" - while that may hold good for basic WD40, a recent supposedly scientific study found that WD40 Contact Cleaner was second only to kerosene as an effective track cleaner.  "Mineral Spirits", eg white sprit, were also recommended.  That same survey didn't like IPA at all.  Whether that is in fact a valid viewpoint I don't know - I'm not a chemist.

 

Effective track cleaning is a frequent topic here and one on which there are various, often completely contradictory, opinions.  For a link to the survey I've mentiond, and some discussion on it, see

DT

Wd 40 is a very different thing to anything else with the WD40 name. WD40 should resist contacts working, whereas their contact clean will help contacts to make.. The WD40 owners have caused a lot of confusion in expanding the WD40 brand to cover other unrelated items..

graphite is not a cleaner but a contact "assister" personally I'd prefer to clean the track at the start of a session using IPA, then follow it with graphite.

[Pete the Elaner]

29 minutes ago, Torper said:

Thirdly, he fulminates against "WD40 or similar" - while that may hold good for basic WD40, a recent supposedly scientific study found that WD40 Contact Cleaner was second only to kerosene as an effective track cleaner.  "Mineral Spirits", eg white sprit, were also recommended.  That same survey didn't like IPA at all.  Whether that is in fact a valid viewpoint I don't know - I'm not a chemist.

 

 

The 'basic WD-40' is an oil based water displacement chemical. It does its job of displacing water very well, but it draws criticism from people after they use it as a lubricant. It is not a lubricant, so what should they expect.

WD-40 does make products for other uses. Not surprisingly, a contact cleaner will be good for cleaning contacts.

 

White spirit is a mixture of hydrocarbons with between 7-12 carbon atoms in the chain. Hydrogen atoms surround each carbon atom. The more, the carbons in the chain, the heavier the gas/liquid. Octane has 8 carbons & many of us will have heard of that because it is a primary content of petrol.

White spirit is slightly oily.

Shorten the chain & at the lowest end, we have methane: 1 carbon surrounded by 4 hydrogens...natural gas.

Methylated spirit's primary content is ethanol (edible alcohol - 2 carbons surrounded by 6 hydrogens but with 1 oxygen atom separating 1 of the hydrogens from its carbon). Before anyone goes out to get drunk on it, it also has a small quantity of methanol (a single carbon with 4 hydrogens, 1 of which is separated by an oxygen). The addition of methanol makes it poisonous, which changes its tax rating. It is also coloured purple & given its odour to remind us not to drink it.

IPA's SI name is Propan-2-ol. Pro mean it has 3 carbons, surrounded by hydrogens, 1 of which is separated by an Oxygen atom. The 2 means the oxygen atom is connected to the middle carbon.

 

If you followed that, you may understand that IPA has similar properties to meths, but will not evaporate quite as quickly. It also has no dye which it can potentially leave behind.

[mikesndbs]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

The 'basic WD-40' is an oil based water displacement chemical. It does its job of displacing water very well, but it draws criticism from people after they use it as a lubricant. It is not a lubricant, so what should they expect.

WD-40 does make products for other uses. Not surprisingly, a contact cleaner will be good for cleaning contacts.

 

White spirit is a mixture of hydrocarbons with between 7-12 carbon atoms in the chain. Hydrogen atoms surround each carbon atom. The more, the carbons in the chain, the heavier the gas/liquid. Octane has 8 carbons & many of us will have heard of that because it is a primary content of petrol.

White spirit is slightly oily.

Shorten the chain & at the lowest end, we have methane: 1 carbon surrounded by 4 hydrogens...natural gas.

Methylated spirit's primary content is ethanol (edible alcohol - 2 carbons surrounded by 6 hydrogens but with 1 oxygen atom separating 1 of the hydrogens from its carbon). Before anyone goes out to get drunk on it, it also has a small quantity of methanol (a single carbon with 4 hydrogens, 1 of which is separated by an oxygen). The addition of methanol makes it poisonous, which changes its tax rating. It is also coloured purple & given its odour to remind us not to drink it.

IPA's SI name is Propan-2-ol. Pro mean it has 3 carbons, surrounded by hydrogens, 1 of which is separated by an Oxygen atom. The 2 means the oxygen atom is connected to the middle carbon.

 

If you followed that, you may understand that IPA has similar properties to meths, but will not evaporate quite as quickly. It also has no dye which it can potentially leave behind.

 

So nice to see someone that understand the chemicals being bandied about!

IPA is a highly safe (for use) cleaner for model railway jobs, as you say it gives you a little time wet before you need to recharge and does not leave anything behind except clean contact surfaces.

[mikesndbs]

Evening guys, may I add this to the mix for your consideration.

I was certainly surprised.

The microscope is tired to the PC so I could not examine my track on the model railway layout that has had extensive use, however I managed to connect to my wife's laptop and look, the track looks smoother than the unused to be honest, however just like the real thing there is evidence of rail burn from spinning wheels, who knew lol

 

Lastly this is a 720X480 video and should not be overly blown up to avoid distortion. 

 

 

[Theo]

I'll second the use of a graphite stick!

[Ben Alder]

Been down that road over the years and for now have settled on Track Magic as the current default use along with cleaning loco wheels, backs and pick ups with  Deoxit contact cleaner - the amount of gunge it removed from supposedly cleaned locos was eye opening, and has greatly improved smooth running. I do use graphite now and again as a quick sort out, but am enforcing a periodic loco maintenance schedule on myself.

 

[Torper]

It would be interesting to know what's in Track Magic - not that Deluxe Materials would want anyone to reveal their recipe.  However, on the face of it a tenner is a lot to pay for 50ml of fluid - that's substantially more than very decent malt whisky!  (In fact, on my admiitedly doubtful mathematical calculations, a 75cl bottle of Track Magic would cost £150).  Certainly too expensive for me - I'll stick to  Halfords naptha-based Surface Cleaner for the moment, if only because I happen to have some and it appears to work reasonably well.

 

DT

[57xx]

17 minutes ago, Torper said:

It would be interesting to know what's in Track Magic - not that Deluxe Materials would want anyone to reveal their recipe. 

 

Have a look for an MSDS for it, they can be quite revealing.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I had used the Peco track cleaning rubbers for years. while I had a layout set up Never had a problem with them. The track did not suddenly wear away to dust. The rails remained clean and undamaged over a period of about 20 years before I had to dismantle my layout.

[Pete the Elaner]

On 17/08/2020 at 18:40, mikesndbs said:

Evening guys, may I add this to the mix for your consideration.

I was certainly surprised.

The microscope is tired to the PC so I could not examine my track on the model railway layout that has had extensive use, however I managed to connect to my wife's laptop and look, the track looks smoother than the unused to be honest, however just like the real thing there is evidence of rail burn from spinning wheels, who knew lol

 

Lastly this is a 720X480 video and should not be overly blown up to avoid distortion. 

 

 

 

Excellent video. Thank you for taking the time to study the difference & share the results.

 

It completely dispels the myth that the Peco cleaning block is bad because it scratches the rail. It looked pretty scratched to start with. I thought it looked slightly better after some treatment with the block.

 

So where did this myth start about the Peco block damaging track by being too abrasive? It sounds quite plausible until you examine evidence like in the video. I expect it was nothing more than a Chinese whisper started by 1 person & spread by many more.

[Pete the Elaner]

41 minutes ago, cypherman said:

Hi all,

I had used the Peco track cleaning rubbers for years. while I had a layout set up Never had a problem with them. The track did not suddenly wear away to dust. The rails remained clean and undamaged over a period of about 20 years before I had to dismantle my layout.

 

That was never the allegation against it.

It was a commonly held belief that it created scratches which caused dirt to stick. This disproves that belief.

[Torper]

I liked what Kenton (remember him?) said about track rubbers:

 

"The rails when new are polished effectively hardened. When you use any abrasive (and infernal track rubbers are the worst culprit - just one step down from a file or sand paper) the polished surface becomes scratched and the tiny scratches become full of an organic mixture of sweat/breath/general damp plus dust (skin cells) and other detritus. The mix gets hammered in place by the weight of the trains passing over it and the gentle cooking of the electric current."

 

[Ray Von]

Forgive my ignorance but are the Graphite Sticks the same ones I think they are? IE, pencils? 

[mikesndbs]

16 hours ago, Torper said:

I liked what Kenton (remember him?) said about track rubbers:

 

"The rails when new are polished effectively hardened. When you use any abrasive (and infernal track rubbers are the worst culprit - just one step down from a file or sand paper) the polished surface becomes scratched and the tiny scratches become full of an organic mixture of sweat/breath/general damp plus dust (skin cells) and other detritus. The mix gets hammered in place by the weight of the trains passing over it and the gentle cooking of the electric current."

 

 

My feeling has always been that used properly the rubber is fine as now proved. I did try scrubbing hard and even then there was little evidence of damage.

The premise that imperfections may fill with dirt, or give it a key to hold to is correct, but when we look at brand new track in detail this seems to have scratches and keys already, the rubbers may even smooth things out. 

[Torper]

The only sure thing about track cleaning topics is that anyone who comes to them hoping for an answer is likely to leave more confused than ever.

 

DT

[5BarVT]

On 19/08/2020 at 21:14, Ray Von said:

Forgive my ignorance but are the Graphite Sticks the same ones I think they are? IE, pencils? 

Yes (more or less). The softer the better as far as I am aware.  6B readily available from art stores and you might also get 9B.  If you ask for a graphite stick you will probably get shown one that is hexagonal ~M10 and doesn’t have the wooden surround so your hands get dirty!  Once to have a groove in it it’s easy on plain line but a bit more tricky on switches.  

Paul.

[Captain Nick]

Take a bottle of quality sparkling wine, uncork and drink contents, preferably with a special partner. Having set aside the cork, take an egg cup or similar vessel from a cupboard wherein these things are stored and proceed with cork and egg cup or similar vessel to railway room. Taking down your bottle of IPA from it's storage shelf, pour some into the egg cup. Dip cork (either end) into the liquid and then rub on the rails with a moderate to light pressure.  When cork becomes dirty, open another bottle of sparkling wine and repeat process. This method not only leads to cleaner rails but improves domestic harmony!

[mikesndbs]

Now that is a tip I can follow, well done that man

[The Johnster]

On 19/08/2020 at 21:14, Ray Von said:

Forgive my ignorance but are the Graphite Sticks the same ones I think they are? IE, pencils? 

 

Yup.  I have given up on track rubbers for various reasons; I think they do, or at any rate can, cause scratches that can accumulate hardened crud, and do not like the amount of downward pressure I have to apply to give them a decent chance of working.  My current method is to use a graphite stick, HB hardness, bought in a local artsy shop.  It should last me years, and is long enough to span double tracks at normal spacing.  I really have no idea why this should work; graphite is greasy stuff which you'd think would attract crud even more than rubbers, but it seems to work, on my layout at least.

 

 

On 20/08/2020 at 17:07, Torper said:

The only sure thing about track cleaning topics is that anyone who comes to them hoping for an answer is likely to leave more confused than ever.

 

DT

 

Agreed.  I think the problem is that there are several different methods and each has a partisan following, so you will get all sorts of reasons put forward for why one thing works and for why another one doesn't.  I do not profess to know why any of them work, or don't, or the fundamental differences in effect on railheads at a microscopic or chemical level.  Abrasive rubbers grind through dirt but leave grooves that collect it, fluids wash dirt away but spread a thinner dissolve layer of it over the railhead which then picks up more crud, and coatings like graphite arguably shouldn't work at all, just increase the greasiness of the crud.  My conclusion, FWiW (which is exactly what I charge for it), is that I do not have the necessary equipment, i.e. a rational clear unfogged brain, working with accurate, relevant, and verified information, to make such decisions; I don't even fully understand what is relevant and what isn't!  I use graphite sticks because they work for me on my layout; for all I know they could be disastrous in different environments, humidity, or temperature.  Don't know why they work, don't care so long as they do...

 

Best thing IMHO is to find something that works for you, don't ask questions, and don't listen to what anyone else, including me, says.  I don't really know what I'm talking about and I suspect many of those who have posted advice don't fully understand it either, though input from chemists and metallurgists is useful.  

Edited August 31, 2020 by The Johnster

[young37215]

On 17/08/2020 at 23:43, Ben Alder said:

Been down that road over the years and for now have settled on Track Magic as the current default use along with cleaning loco wheels, backs and pick ups with  Deoxit contact cleaner - the amount of gunge it removed from supposedly cleaned locos was eye opening, and has greatly improved smooth running. I do use graphite now and again as a quick sort out, but am enforcing a periodic loco maintenance schedule on myself.

 

 

When I Google Deoxit contact cleaner I get a variety of contact cleaner products with similar names under the Deoxit brand. Can anyone advise what/whose specific product I should be looking for? 

 

[Ben Alder]

This is the type I use.

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Caig-DeoxIT-Contact-Cleaning-Fluid-2ml-Tube/293572241265?hash=item445a44e771:g:akwAAOSwQbVes-9r

[young37215]

9 hours ago, Ben Alder said:

This is the type I use.

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Caig-DeoxIT-Contact-Cleaning-Fluid-2ml-Tube/293572241265?hash=item445a44e771:g:akwAAOSwQbVes-9r

 

Thanks Richard

 

Duly purchased this morning, I will be interested to see how much additional muck this removes from my locos

[Ben Alder]

It certainly surprised me how much it took off.

 

[mikesndbs]

Hi everyone

 

Well after my video I was contacted by a very nice chap with a scientific background and I have to say I have now switched away from IPA for all electrical contact cleaning on my models.

Here is a new updated video which not only discusses the matter but shows some evidence as well.

I have not released this video before as we wanted to do in depth testing first.

 

 

Hope it is of interest.  

[Andymsa]

1 hour ago, mikesndbs said:

Hi everyone

 

Well after my video I was contacted by a very nice chap with a scientific background and I have to say I have now switched away from IPA for all electrical contact cleaning on my models.

Here is a new updated video which not only discusses the matter but shows some evidence as well.

I have not released this video before as we wanted to do in depth testing first.

 

 

Hope it is of interest.  

Very interesting, I don’t use ipa but another similar thing from a German company.all I got to try and find out if it’s polar or non polar. It certainly doesn’t smell like a ipa product but is certainly alcohol based I think.