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Track Cleaning Fluid - Which is best?


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Well!  Just goes to prove that if you ask 10 people the best way to do something, you will come away with all sorts of answers and more confused than ever.

My method has been to use a track rubber, think it's some other supplier, not Peco.

Then with a clean bit of rag round my finger, wipe each rail to pick up any deposit.

Lastly, go round with the vacuum cleaner to collect any dropped threads.

Doing wheels is more involved.  I have this thing that's about 18in of track with felt pads. Absolutely useless!

So I resort to a bottle of IPA and a drum of cotton buds.  Not exactly a satisfying, fulfilling task...

 

I gather Pendon runs this weighted wagon that has something like squares of hardboard pressed onto the track by springs?  Can anyone verify that?

 

This reminds me.  I have the old green track cleaning car that Triang Hornby produced. It has a felt pad that you soak in Meths.  I will need to change the wheels so that it will run on my finescale track.  Although I heard that Meths leaves a nasty deposit?

I'm surprised nobody has suggested trying vodka...  Any takers?

 

Always willing to stir the pot of confusion.

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3 hours ago, mikesndbs said:

Hi everyone

 

Well after my video I was contacted by a very nice chap with a scientific background and I have to say I have now switched away from IPA for all electrical contact cleaning on my models.

Here is a new updated video which not only discusses the matter but shows some evidence as well.

I have not released this video before as we wanted to do in depth testing first.

 

 

Hope it is of interest.  

 

 

I have two small portable layouts - one a lot smaller than the other. They are set up and run irregularly : so weeks or months elapse between operating sessions.

 

I currently use a DOGA track rubber, which I think is a material used for cleaning surfaces for electronic soldering, followed by a thorough wipe over with a cotton bud soaked in solvent cleaner. That generally produces a lot of black soiling. Solvent cleaners have been Slaters Track & Mechanism cleaner and a bottle from Modellers Mate, and I have a bottle of Dapol stuff in the cupboard. What they are is a good question - Slaters Track &n Mechanism cleaner will certainly remove a little factory weathering if cwheels are cleaned vigorously. Having taken the nickel plating off the wheels of a Hornby 06  with the Peco Wheel Scraper and Brush  many years ago I only clean wheels with a cotton bud soaked in solvent.

 

The problem I have with the video is that if the great majority of the dirt on track is caused by arcing from the wheels, why do my layouts need the track cleaning, quite badly,  after they've been left unused for a couple of months? If no trains have run, then surely there should be no dirt - if the dirt is caused by the passage of trains

 

I fully understand the point that an electrical contact cleaner ought to be ideal for cleaning what is , at the end of the day, a sliding electrical contact . However the mistique of polar and non-polar passes me by. I do note that the trains ran immediately after rail cleaning, and I do wonder if there might be an issue with residual solvent decomposing to something undesirable  when an electric current is passed through it (as the train runs over) . I have a hazy recollection from school that electrolysis is a way of promoting chemical reactions, and hydrocarbons do contain, well carbon

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2 hours ago, AyJay said:

 

I gather Pendon runs this weighted wagon that has something like squares of hardboard pressed onto the track by springs?  Can anyone verify that?

 


As a driver on the Dartmoor scene I can verify that is partly true. The wagon is called the Heineken because it reaches the parts of track that other methods can’t (many will be old enough to remember the TV adverts) because of access. Partly true only because it is not springs that press the hardboard onto the track but strips of lead. Before a days running commences the wagon will be pushed or propelled around Dartmoor and The Vale scenes with a clean hardboard strip which effectively polishes the rail surface. The hardboard strip which then invariably has two dirty black lines along its surface is put aside to be sanded clean. Someone therefore has the tedious job of running a sander over these strips when enough have accumulated to make the process worthwhile. Perhaps not for something most modellers would want to do.

 

A couple of photos I’ve managed to find of the Heineken showing the arrangement. The hardboard and lead strips have holes which line up with the two pins. They are a sloppy fit to allow for going round curves. The pins are simply cut down nails. There is a stop screw to adjust the maximum drop of the lead. Pendon has a number of Heineken’s some running on white metal bogies and some as 4 wheelers. This is one of the latter. It is crude but very effective.

 

B74C4BDE-0509-4753-9D00-B8D38122900D.jpeg.565a4a9176dd5046115dcb6f02bf4f42.jpeg

 

621E5943-9D13-4FC3-A1D1-AC48367BCF84.jpeg.cdfe0b88231c7da4a53e102bdff69ffd.jpeg

Edited by nickwood
Typos corrected
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3 hours ago, AyJay said:

W

I'm surprised nobody has suggested trying vodka...  Any takers?

Tried the vodka, but after ingestion, I couldn't see the track, let alone clean it.

 

On a more serious note, I have a Hornby Class 25 (I know, I know). It transmits electricity through the axles and it was working intermittently. Pickup is through both bogies with traction tyres fitted on one side of the power bogie. Having stripped it down, I cleaned everything with IPA, and it ran okay for a couple of weeks, then started stuttering again. Stripped it down again and cleaned it with Ambersil Contact Cleaner. Not had to touch it since.

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15 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

 

 

The problem I have with the video is that if the great majority of the dirt on track is caused by arcing from the wheels, why do my layouts need the track cleaning, quite badly,  after they've been left unused for a couple of months? If no trains have run, then surely there should be no dirt - if the dirt is caused by the passage of trains

 

I fully understand the point that an electrical contact cleaner ought to be ideal for cleaning what is , at the end of the day, a sliding electrical contact . However the mistique of polar and non-polar passes me by. I do note that the trains ran immediately after rail cleaning, and I do wonder if there might be an issue with residual solvent decomposing to something undesirable  when an electric current is passed through it (as the train runs over) . I have a hazy recollection from school that electrolysis is a way of promoting chemical reactions, and hydrocarbons do contain, well carbon

 

Hi, to try and help you.

 

The oxidation continues long after the trains have stopped, in fact keeping the trains running helps slow it down.

Think of a garden tool, if you use it it stays bright, leave it unused and rust soon takes over.

Once the electromechanical process has been started, i.e. metal molecules blasted off by arcing, they continue to rust.

 

There is no mistique to the polar issue, it is well noted and researched just does not seem to have made it into our hobby hence the video :)

 

To address your final point, all these solvents evaporate really fast, there will be nothing left within a very few moments, also the way I use my two pad Tidy Track, is that the front pad is the course type where the fluid is applied and the rear pad is one of the white polishing pads, therefore application is immediately followed by mop up and polish.

Hope this helps,have a great weekend.

 

 

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1 hour ago, mikesndbs said:

 

Hi, to try and help you.

 

The oxidation continues long after the trains have stopped, in fact keeping the trains running helps slow it down.

Think of a garden tool, if you use it it stays bright, leave it unused and rust soon takes over.

Once the electromechanical process has been started, i.e. metal molecules blasted off by arcing, they continue to rust.

 

There is no mistique to the polar issue, it is well noted and researched just does not seem to have made it into our hobby hence the video :)

 

To address your final point, all these solvents evaporate really fast, there will be nothing left within a very few moments, also the way I use my two pad Tidy Track, is that the front pad is the course type where the fluid is applied and the rear pad is one of the white polishing pads, therefore application is immediately followed by mop up and polish.

Hope this helps,have a great weekend.

 

 

Excellent videos and a very good analogy as well (the garden tools!)


I purchased a can of the WD40 contact cleaner a few months ago but haven’t tried it yet. One question ... does it negatively effect adhesion? My layout has a couple of sections with gradients. I also operate some quite lengthy trains.

 

Another variable in the mix from my own experience is humidity. Have you carried out any trials regarding this? Adding to the garden tool analogy; if you store your tools in a damp shed/location, then rust is more likely! Damp/moisture also attract and hold small contaminants/particles.

 

I’ve learnt that prevention is also key to keeping smooth running. So my layout has all metal wheelsets (no plastic wheels), carpet tiles (not carpets), regular hoovering, most cutting activities occurring away from the layout/dust prevention ... I also use a dehumidifier (also helps protect timber and card structures).

 

I last cleaned the track on my layout using a CMX with IPA (99.99%) during mid-2018, I also cleaned all the wheels on all stock at the same time. Since then, I’ve only had to clean the wheelsets on a small number of loco’s (and any new arrivals; both loco’s or rolling stock). I’ve had some substantial breaks in running since then while progressing projects on the layout, also had spells of more regular running. I’ve only recently started to record a few videos on YouTube yet have been complimented several times about the smooth running.

 

The next time I’ll be cleaning the track I’ll try the WD40 contact cleaner ... it does make sense that it prevents excess micro-arcing ... but I am wondering if reducing moisture also helps reduce the amount of micro-arcing? So potentially using both a dehumidifier and WD40 will leave those garden tools even more sparkly! 

 

 

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3 hours ago, mikesndbs said:

 

Hi, to try and help you.

 

The oxidation continues long after the trains have stopped, in fact keeping the trains running helps slow it down.

Think of a garden tool, if you use it it stays bright, leave it unused and rust soon takes over.

Once the electromechanical process has been started, i.e. metal molecules blasted off by arcing, they continue to rust.

 

There is no mistique to the polar issue, it is well noted and researched just does not seem to have made it into our hobby hence the video :)

 

To address your final point, all these solvents evaporate really fast, there will be nothing left within a very few moments, also the way I use my two pad Tidy Track, is that the front pad is the course type where the fluid is applied and the rear pad is one of the white polishing pads, therefore application is immediately followed by mop up and polish.

Hope this helps,have a great weekend.

 

 

I have asked this in the graphite thread but not got any replies, so would it be even better to use the contact cleaner then use a graphite stick.

 

a further thought occurs if you were to do a heavy clean using a polar cleaning product then to follow up with a non polar product would the the same issues still be there, like if you used the polar product only

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7 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

I have asked this in the graphite thread but not got any replies, so would it be even better to use the contact cleaner then use a graphite stick.

 

a further thought occurs if you were to do a heavy clean using a polar cleaning product then to follow up with a non polar product would the the same issues still be there, like if you used the polar product only

 

Hi, a very thin layer of graphite is non-polar, probably a belt and braces approach would be to use the WD40 Contact Cleaner followed by a quick stroke with the graphite. Would be interesting to hear how it works out?

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6 minutes ago, mikesndbs said:

 

Hi, a very thin layer of graphite is non-polar, probably a belt and braces approach would be to use the WD40 Contact Cleaner followed by a quick stroke with the graphite. Would be interesting to hear how it works out?


ok, off to screwfix to get some

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Now I'm really confused!!!

I see that there are several references to WD40 in this thread.  I only know of the WD40 oil that I would use on rusty bolts and don't think that is what's meant, so this must be a branded switch cleaner that I was unaware of?

Having spent a moment doing an internet search on "meths versus iso propyl", I am leaning towards iso propyl, because it does not have the additives that meths has.  I did briefly wonder about using Ronson lighter fluid, but there is always the risk of a spark!!!

 

One good thing that this thread has done, is to convince me never to use a track cleaning rubber again.  I have put finescale wheels on my  Triang Hornby track cleaning car and run that a couple of times. It gives good results, but the felt pad does cause a heavy drag for the locomotive though.  If I find any really stubborn marks, I have found that rubbing them with a soft wood stick, such as a clean coffee stirrer, does the trick.

When this lockdown is over, I must visit Hobbycraft for a sheet of felt that I can cut into strips.

 

Moving on from cleaning the track.....   What about cleaning the wheels of rolling stock?  I have just spent ages going round the wheels of about 20 coal trucks with cotton buds, rather laborious task.  There must be a quicker/easier way of doing this?

 

Also...  I keep reading that plastic wheels should be replaced with metal wheels; most of my carriages have been done.  But I still have a load of trucks with their original plastic wheels and to replace them would cost about £160. 

Can someone please explain why metal wheels are so much better than plastic?

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20 minutes ago, AyJay said:

Now I'm really confused!!!

I see that there are several references to WD40 in this thread.  I only know of the WD40 oil that I would use on rusty bolts and don't think that is what's meant, so this must be a branded switch cleaner that I was unaware of?

Having spent a moment doing an internet search on "meths versus iso propyl", I am leaning towards iso propyl, because it does not have the additives that meths has.  I did briefly wonder about using Ronson lighter fluid, but there is always the risk of a spark!!!

 

One good thing that this thread has done, is to convince me never to use a track cleaning rubber again.  I have put finescale wheels on my  Triang Hornby track cleaning car and run that a couple of times. It gives good results, but the felt pad does cause a heavy drag for the locomotive though.  If I find any really stubborn marks, I have found that rubbing them with a soft wood stick, such as a clean coffee stirrer, does the trick.

When this lockdown is over, I must visit Hobbycraft for a sheet of felt that I can cut into strips.

 

Moving on from cleaning the track.....   What about cleaning the wheels of rolling stock?  I have just spent ages going round the wheels of about 20 coal trucks with cotton buds, rather laborious task.  There must be a quicker/easier way of doing this?

 

Also...  I keep reading that plastic wheels should be replaced with metal wheels; most of my carriages have been done.  But I still have a load of trucks with their original plastic wheels and to replace them would cost about £160. 

Can someone please explain why metal wheels are so much better than plastic?

 

 

Hi

 

I can help you a bit!

 

Please check out this video that will detail the differences between WD40 and WD40 Contact Cleaner. You are spot on that you should not use WD40 on your track or wheels, WD40 is the brand name  but they now also make a non-polar contact cleaner that I recommend for track and wheels.

 

 

 

Used properly a Peco track rubber is a fine tool to deal with any stubborn crud you find, use it lightly with only very light pressure and don't scrub.

Every so often clean the rubber with contact cleaner and it will be good to go again.

I examined the rails after use and in fact found the use of the rubber burnished the rails removing very fine scratches.

 

Wheel cleaning, WD40 contact cleaner again or as you suggested lighter fuel, IPA, Contact Cleaner, Lighter Fuel are all highly flammable and you need to ventilate during wide scale use, but these also evaporate really fast such that the danger soon passes.

 

Plastic versus metal, I am in the same boat as you. Since swapping to WD40 Contact Cleaner and or lighter fuel, I've not noticed much build up. 

I'd like to change simply because there is less drag with metal but yes the price of wheels is high!

Hope this helps.

 

  

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2 hours ago, AyJay said:

Now I'm really confused!!!

I see that there are several references to WD40 in this thread.  I only know of the WD40 oil that I would use on rusty bolts and don't think that is what's meant, so this must be a branded switch cleaner that I was unaware of?

Having spent a moment doing an internet search on "meths versus iso propyl", I am leaning towards iso propyl, because it does not have the additives that meths has.  I did briefly wonder about using Ronson lighter fluid, but there is always the risk of a spark!!!

 

One good thing that this thread has done, is to convince me never to use a track cleaning rubber again.  I have put finescale wheels on my  Triang Hornby track cleaning car and run that a couple of times. It gives good results, but the felt pad does cause a heavy drag for the locomotive though.  If I find any really stubborn marks, I have found that rubbing them with a soft wood stick, such as a clean coffee stirrer, does the trick.

When this lockdown is over, I must visit Hobbycraft for a sheet of felt that I can cut into strips.

 

Moving on from cleaning the track.....   What about cleaning the wheels of rolling stock?  I have just spent ages going round the wheels of about 20 coal trucks with cotton buds, rather laborious task.  There must be a quicker/easier way of doing this?

 

Also...  I keep reading that plastic wheels should be replaced with metal wheels; most of my carriages have been done.  But I still have a load of trucks with their original plastic wheels and to replace them would cost about £160. 

Can someone please explain why metal wheels are so much better than plastic?


 

I use these and much cheaper too.

 

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/257552753

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6 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

 

See a few paras down here

Thanks for sharing this.

One small point;

I note it refers to nickel silver plating.

I understood the nickel silver was

a part of the base material,

not just a surface plating

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6 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

 

See a few paras down here

 

A very interesting write up.

 

Does not appear to consider the effect of cleaning the track with non polar solvents that tends to prevent oxidation.

 

While I certainly don't have the professional training to dispute the section about plastic wheels breaking down and leaving deposits behind, I have to say I am surprised! I have plastic wheel sets that are many decades old and still look like they did when new, also would not the plastic wheel pick up dirt far faster than it wore down? and would not that dirt form a covering preventing the plastic wearing down?

 

Fascinating discussions 

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16 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

I’m somewhat confused as to why I have been quoted for something I not said. I never used plastic wheels as all my stock is metal.

If you check back to the post it's taken from,

its a quote of a quote,

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4 minutes ago, rab said:

If you check back to the post it's taken from,

its a quote of a quote,

Yes I have seen that now but the comment was not made by me which gives the wrong impression and the quote should be taken from the original comment.

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