Please tell me about your experience with loft layouts

[Pete the Elaner]

The loft is not an ideal environment for a layout because of the temperature extremes, but it is workable.

A loft conversion is nice but expensive. Also ensure you don't just get the joists hacked away because they are structural. Ensure there is something to replace them. This will be heavier &because if it wasn't, it would have been the solution instead of joists in the first place.

 

Consider making your layout portable. It will involve extra wiring but..

Not only will this allow you to take the layout with you if you move house, but flipping a board upside down or onto its side is infinitely preferable to working underneath it. It will also allow you to take 1 board at a time downstairs if you want to work on it.

I used to consider 4'x2' a standard size of board but I tried 3'x1'6" a while back & find this a much better size to work with.

[ColinK]

Here as a supplement to my contribution still some pictures of my hobby room under the roof.

Your layout looks very interesting - would love to hear more about it.

Here as a supplement to my contribution still some pictures of my hobby room under the roof.

Your layout looks very interesting - would love to hear more about it.

[Bergmann]

OK, I can show you more.

I'm just new here and still can not find my way around.

I have 4 different models in the scale 1: 22.5.

 

1. an LGB modular system.

2. Modules combined in control track with narrow gauge.

3. The mine train "Klosterstollen".

4. I want to participate in the Cakebox Challenge.

[unravelled]

One of the factors which made me abandon the loft was that of noise. If bedrooms are immediately below any activity is likely to be heard, so restricting times when I could work and play there.

 

thanks

 

Dave

[Andrew P]

One of the factors which made me abandon the loft was that of noise. If bedrooms are immediately below any activity is likely to be heard, so restricting times when I could work and play there.

 

thanks

 

Dave

I had the same in our Bungalow, a 9F and 40 Wagons, or a 12 Coach Express, drowning out the TV for SWMBO.

[Andrew P]

Our Chairman bought a second hand Portacabin, not overly expensive, but when it arrived it had been used on a Golf Course, and was fitted out with a Kitchen at one end, Double Glazed windows with internal Blinds, Florescent lighting, Power Points all around and a nice Carpet, sheer Luxury I would have thought. 

[Mike140]

My current progress on the loft clean up for my new layout. If a large enough shed or garage were available I'd take either over the loft any day, but this is all I have for the time being. Terraced house!

 

 

There had been a 00 gauge layout up there for 20+ years and had seen all of the problems pointed out so far. Freezing cold in the winter and roasting hot in the summer. The window was added maybe 10 years back when the roof tiles were replaced, as the summer months were an absolute no-go. It must have gotten to 35*C up there easily. Radiators were installed for the winter months so it was nice and toasty up there, but don't forget that heat rises so when the heating is on and your hatch is open most of the heat from the entire house will end up in your loft and sweat you out - the window was open and radiators off even in January and February to combat that! Dust is another issue. Years back, plaster board sheets were fixed to the ceiling to combat dust and provide some insulation - I think there is insulation of some sort behind that but can't remember for sure - that was effective for a time, but now they are crumbling and causing more dust! The walls are plastered, again, crumbling, more dust! I am convinced the spiders had learned how to drive the trains. I'll never forget the one time a class 40 entered one end of a tunnel only to emerge at the other end with a ruddy big house spider riding the nose. Then there was the bat that could reach Mach 2.

It had its issue, but as it was all we had it did the job.

I will be building my layout in modules, even the mountains will lift off in pieces, and would definitely recommend the same. The benefits far out-weigh the bit of extra wiring. As pointed out, if you can get it down through the hatch, you can take one board downstairs to work on at a time if you don't want to be locked away. Plus if baseboard warping were to occur it would be a whole lot easier to rebuild / replace one small section than an entire length. Avoid chipboard and MDF in a loft - lesson learned the hard way. MDF back scenes didn't even get through one winter.

The house insurance discussion is an interesting one. Don't really fancy leaving my stock up there any more!

[The Johnster]

My principle is that if the railway cannot be accommodated in a permanently set up state within the heated and ventilated living portion of the house, it's not worth the bother unless you are prepared to convert the loft/basement/shed to those standards, and in the case of the shed, provide covered access to those standards from the house; this is a very expensive business, but any other approach tends to lead to the use of the layout being dependent on weather and especially temperature.  Variations in the latter beyond the range of normal household ambient will warp your boards and rip the track apart as well as discouraging you from using the railway.

 

My layout, Cwmdimbath, occupies half my bedroom and it is as well that the squeeze is supportive!

[Andy Hayter]

Loft Layouts?

 

Been there, done that and will not be repeating the exercise.

 

Convert the area to a proper room - as already suggested - conforming to building regs is a possible, but just converting the loft, no thank you.

 

To start with the ceiling joists were well below spec for laying a floor.  So these were beefed up by laying flooring joists at right angles between a brick wall and a supporting wall..  The new floor joists and old ceiling joists were connected at every intersection by screws.  

The insulation was beefed up and put into the roof rafter space.  This was held in place with boarding, which also kept out the copious amounts of dust and dirt that would blow in in each gale.

The hatch was made larger for easier access but would still not have made the area anything more than a loft space according to regs.

When completed, and despite the generous information, it was as others have suggested, too cold in winter and too hot in summer.

 

 

If you remain undeterred by the combined advice here then I strongly recommend that you do not build in situ.  Build your 4ft modules and arrange to join them together with dowels, bolts, screws or whatever (not glue) so that when/if life bites you in the bum and you have to move, the layout can come too without major destruction.    Mine started in the UK and is now in France having gone via Germany - none of which I could possibly have predicted when I started on it.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Andy Hayter

[73c]

Having seen the photo's of the original OP's loft, I'd say forget it. I have same/similar cross timbers in my loft and after having to climb over - dive under them about 20 times, I promise you get fed up with it!

Will be looking to build a shed at the bottom of the garden soon and move down there. 

[Lacathedrale]

Well I think that has quite comprehensively  decided that it's NOT the location for me. Honestly, 16-20' of linear space across the livingroom occasionally, and a scenic 8' section semi-permanently in the office, assuming some partial operation could take place without longer staging boards attached.

[The Stationmaster]

Another tip if you can make the Garage waterproof, is to lay 2 inch Polystyrene on the Floor, then a layer of 3/4 Chipboard on top, I then laid a remnant of Lino on top of that so that the feet stayed warm. I also use the Halfords interlocking Rubber Floor Mats in the walking area in my Shed.

 

You definitely ned to do that if the garage hasn't got an insulated floor (I had mine built with an insulated floor of 4 inch thick polystyrene on top of damp course between the oversite and the final flooring concrete then chipboard on top of that as the floor surface.  But you do need to insulate the walls as well but allow for ventilation too.  Kingspan is best for the walls with a decent exterior grade ply as the lining on your side of the insulation.  Costs but well worth it in anti-damp and personal comfort terms. 

 

As noted already loft conversions can be very expensive - you have to have a proper staircase to comply with Building Regulations if the loft is to be used as habitable space and using it for a model railway does mean that it has to be habitable space.  Added habitable space can affect (upwards) the Council Tax banding but under the current system the change is only taken into account if/when the house changes hands (and of course you then have an extra area of habitable space to sell.  One thing to bear in mind is that converting the loft will also affect the floor immediately blow as the staircase will take space and possibly interfere with natural light.  I had originally intended our roof space to be habitable space when planning the house but I turned it into an attic during construction in order to do away with the staircase and partly as a consequence of having to drop the roof line to secure Planning Permission - as a result we have a large and very light landing area instead of what would have been a quite dark cramped space.  But both the Building Inspector and the Rating Officer checked to make sure the area was only going to be used for storage.

[sjrixon]

I work from home and my small layout shares my office.

 

A couple of positives, if I've been working all day then it's already warm should I want to go back and either run some trains or work on some kits. Also means my work bench is behind me, so should I have 10mins I can quickly do something. Handy when you want to quickly prime something, or stick something that takes 10s but needs to then dry overnight. 

[reggie]

Seems to be a lot of jobsworths giving very negative feedback on loft layouts - but just look on youtube as to how many people have them and get on fine! Daveclass47 and Everard Junction - two of the most popular channels are both in lofts...boarded with insulation, and they get on fine. 

 

Of course it would be nice to have the loft professionally converted but this is beyond most budgets. A well boarded, insulated loft with a good loft ladder is ideal imo. I have had a loft layout for a few years with no issues at all. The weight of an average layout is not that great (I used 9mm ply, 2'6" x 8' sheets and battens across the truss) and with one person in the loft the weight is probably a lot less than all the junk most people store in lofts! Have an electrician do the wiring though.

 

I think a loft layout is an ideal solution personally. I would not dismiss it so readily as some have...

[chris p bacon]

Seems to be a lot of jobsworths giving very negative feedback on loft layouts - but just look on youtube as to how many people have them and get on fine! Daveclass47 and Everard Junction - two of the most popular channels are both in lofts...boarded with insulation, and they get on fine. 

 

Of course it would be nice to have the loft professionally converted but this is beyond most budgets. A well boarded, insulated loft with a good loft ladder is ideal imo. I have had a loft layout for a few years with no issues at all. The weight of an average layout is not that great (I used 9mm ply, 2'6" x 8' sheets and battens across the truss) and with one person in the loft the weight is probably a lot less than all the junk most people store in lofts! Have an electrician do the wiring though.

 

I think a loft layout is an ideal solution personally. I would not dismiss it so readily as some have...

 

Thanks for that most helpful of replies.

 

When you say "Jobsworths" I'm guessing you're making a snide comment against those of us that actually do his sort of thing for a living and don't rely on Youtube for education and instruction.  Youtube is fine for entertainment but you don't seriously suggest that just because someone posts a video of a layout in a loft then it's fine to copy them.

 

Re the bold -  It's a hard world but sometimes when you can't afford something, then that is just the way it is.

 

I've said it before but the loft is purely the void between the non load bearing first floor ceiling and the underside of the roof. It is not meant for storing anything and if it is constructed of modern (1970's onwards) trusses then the addition of water tanks is calculated into the design with a specific location identified. Having a person lumbering around and placing weight where it is not meant to be is not a good idea. Trusses are connected with plates which are designed to keep the roof in shape, the calculations only allow for a small amount of downwards deflection but by using it as a room then you've increased that load way beyond what it was calculated for.  

Ignore ventilation at your peril as well, across the road from me a neighbour had a 'conversion' done by him and his son, now 5 years later they are looking at a new roof as the batten has rotted and some of the rafter feet are rotting as well, in the recent winds they lost a dozen concrete tiles off the roof as there is nothing holding them up anymore just the weight (about 4 tons all over) 

 

You do whatever you want, but don't suggest to others that ignoring the basic planning and building regulations is a good idea.

Edited January 30, 2018 by chris p bacon

[Mike140]

Seems to be a lot of jobsworths giving very negative feedback on loft layouts - but just look on youtube as to how many people have them and get on fine! Daveclass47 and Everard Junction - two of the most popular channels are both in lofts...boarded with insulation, and they get on fine. 

 

Of course it would be nice to have the loft professionally converted but this is beyond most budgets. A well boarded, insulated loft with a good loft ladder is ideal imo. I have had a loft layout for a few years with no issues at all. The weight of an average layout is not that great (I used 9mm ply, 2'6" x 8' sheets and battens across the truss) and with one person in the loft the weight is probably a lot less than all the junk most people store in lofts! Have an electrician do the wiring though.

 

I think a loft layout is an ideal solution personally. I would not dismiss it so readily as some have...

 

I agree. Although in my case the heat and cold were an issue at one time they were overcome with just a bit of effort. Dust can be dealt with with good house keeping. I'd at least give it a go and see how things go from there. Definitely get some insulation in, and I'd go for some sort of climate control if the wallet permits.

Sadly even the great Everard Junction fell to warping baseboards.

[david51]

Over the years I have had a variety of environments for a model railway from portable layouts,layouts in the bedroom,I railway room (as now) and in loft.

Aloft properly converted and equipped can be a great place for a layout. I have found that the biggest disadvantage is that of access.

Often getting in the loft means opening the hatch,pulling down the ladder and clambering up into the loft. That can inhibit spontanaety because one cannot simply go and run a train quickly.

My wife who is very tolerant of my hobby used to get annoyed if I just 'disappeared' especially when the children were younger.

Access can be a problem to either with advancing age or young children.

Climbing a loft ladder with arthritic limbs becomes less and less inviting and with small children one has to be careful about access and making sure that they don't fall out of the loft hatch,or even worse ,through the ceiling.

I don't wish to be negative because I have built several successful layouts in the loft ,but there is no doubt in my mind that a railway in a spare room as I have now is the best option.

The layout is always available at short notice,it is easily accessible by children of all ages .my reference material is kept under the layout and I am in the house and always available for example to answer the phone or the door ,or for meals or to help with the washing up!

[The Stationmaster]

Seems to be a lot of jobsworths giving very negative feedback on loft layouts - but just look on youtube as to how many people have them and get on fine! Daveclass47 and Everard Junction - two of the most popular channels are both in lofts...boarded with insulation, and they get on fine. 

 

Of course it would be nice to have the loft professionally converted but this is beyond most budgets. A well boarded, insulated loft with a good loft ladder is ideal imo. I have had a loft layout for a few years with no issues at all. The weight of an average layout is not that great (I used 9mm ply, 2'6" x 8' sheets and battens across the truss) and with one person in the loft the weight is probably a lot less than all the junk most people store in lofts! Have an electrician do the wiring though.

 

I think a loft layout is an ideal solution personally. I would not dismiss it so readily as some have...

 

If the roof space has got substantial trusses like those illustrated below - which were designed to be load bearing - or suitable floor joists in older construction, plus of course, an access staircase with firedoors in accordance with the Building Regulations, then ok.  But unless it is properly ventilated you will still get excessive heat build up in the summer.  None of that is in any way 'jobsworth' territory - the Building Regulations are there for very good reasons and in this particular case they are there to avoid the two most likely problems of either ruining the structure of your house or being unable to escape the effects of a fire downstairs.

 

And as has already been pointed out static loads are irrelevant if someone happens to be moving about up there.  If you saw the loading rating for those trusses you would probably either gasp in surprise or dismiss them as jobsworth but they were in fact designed to take the load of a model railway layout and the person(s) operating it plus accommodating storage in the normal manner.

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Seems to be a lot of jobsworths giving very negative feedback on loft layouts - but just look on youtube as to how many people have them and get on fine! Daveclass47 and Everard Junction - two of the most popular channels are both in lofts...boarded with insulation, and they get on fine. 

 

Of course it would be nice to have the loft professionally converted but this is beyond most budgets. A well boarded, insulated loft with a good loft ladder is ideal imo. I have had a loft layout for a few years with no issues at all. The weight of an average layout is not that great (I used 9mm ply, 2'6" x 8' sheets and battens across the truss) and with one person in the loft the weight is probably a lot less than all the junk most people store in lofts! Have an electrician do the wiring though.

 

I think a loft layout is an ideal solution personally. I would not dismiss it so readily as some have...

 

The OP asks for our experiences. And we reply. Does that make us "jobsworths"?

 

If so, how is any sort of forum supposed to work?

[Welly]

I had a loft layout at one time - never again. The headheight was too low for me to stand, the sloping ceiling severely reduced the height above the outside edge of the layout making access for tracklaying all but impossible.

 

It is also tempting to have as big a layout as you fit in which will take too much track and scenery to look anything like a model railway.

 

Proper professional conversion that makes the loft part of the house is the only way to go - I can't afford that and my house roof is too low anyway.

[Moo]

I've recently finished my loft. Took a wee bit longer that expected (over 4 years but not constantly working on it and job changes/money played a factor!)

 

Long and short of the job, 50's semi, three sided roof. Added new floor bearers as original floor was laid on the on the tiny 3x2 ceiling joists! Strengthened under eaves onto supporting walls, strengthened roof pitch (where the three sides come together. Job lot of 80mm Kingspan seconds through ebay direct from the factory. Cut to get between the roof joists with 20+mm air gap. Foil insulation (looks like aluminium bubble wrap) over the top of Kingspan. Add two Velux type roof windows, loads of plasterboard, and skimmed as the Bro in law is a plasterer and I now how a lovely warm loft in the winter and a nice cool loft in the summer which was completely bareable last summer with the windows open.

 

It is a hell of a lot of work, but I'd sooner have my stock above my head than in a shed. Comfy, accessible through a heavy duty wooden loft ladder, plenty of space, no prying eyes through the window (unless they've got on the roof!), TV and tunes straemed up there and room in the middle for the (not quite so) little one to play.

 

I'm personally glad I went this route!

 

HTH

[Mike140]

Moo does raise the issue of security. In the loft you know your stock is safe and sound. Couldn't say I'd be happy about leaving my stock away from the house where I live.

[LBRJ]

Seems to be a lot of jobsworths giving very negative feedback on loft layouts - but just look on youtube as to how many people have them and get on fine! Daveclass47 and Everard Junction - two of the most popular channels are both in lofts...boarded with insulation, and they get on fine. 

 

Of course it would be nice to have the loft professionally converted but this is beyond most budgets. A well boarded, insulated loft with a good loft ladder is ideal imo. I have had a loft layout for a few years with no issues at all. The weight of an average layout is not that great (I used 9mm ply, 2'6" x 8' sheets and battens across the truss) and with one person in the loft the weight is probably a lot less than all the junk most people store in lofts! Have an electrician do the wiring though.

 

I think a loft layout is an ideal solution personally. I would not dismiss it so readily as some have...

This post should either be deleted, should there be a danger some will take it as serious advice or pinned as a what not to do list.

 

I am a a sometime builder, landscaper etc and would admit to cutting the odd (permissable) corner

but when it comes to moving about and trying at being balanced on ceiling joists above the sleeping quarters of your nearest and dearest you need to actually think about what you are doing.

If you are unable to think, thats why Building Regulations are there - to stop the hard of thinking killing innocent people.

[LBRJ]

I will just add as a separate post that

 

in the loosest possible sense of the world standard

 

A wooden joist will be supportive of a load for 18 times its depth  - IE a 3 inch beam is good for, at the absolute max, 54 inches of unsupported span

 

I guess very few houses have walls 4 foot six apart?

[chris p bacon]

I guess very few houses have walls 4 foot six apart?

 

You mean you don't remember the size of the living room in a Barratt home ?