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Lie By Siding


Seanem44
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the provision and length of any loops/sidings was shown in the relevant sectional appendix.

 

There's a 1960 one at http://www.britishrailways1960.co.uk

 

The page for the Settle-Carlisle is here: http://www.britishrailways1960.co.uk/CLCG01.html

IIRC the length given is the number of standard wagons and not including the loco + brake van

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Not mentioned so far, but Refuge Sidings could also be facing to direction of travel - the train would run straight in and be backed out.

 

There were several like this on the Newcastle - Carlisle line. The 'box would have a pair of Refuge Sidings, one each direction, running parallel to each other from the points at the 'box, with one in the trailing direction and the other facing. In most cases they appeared to be formerly Goods Lines, but as an economy the 'box at the other end had been taken out leaving them as dead-end sidings.

 

Incidentally, where a Refuge Siding is in the facing direction the buffer stop displays a white light, not red. (This can still be seen on the Reversing Siding for the Wensleydale branch at Northallerton)

Prudhoe had this arrangement until fairly recently, with the Carlisle-bound siding being trailing and the Newcastle-bound one being facing.

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They're still there at Kirkby Stephen (the Up one being made up of bits of the former goods yard and cattle dock). There's no need for their original purpose any more but I think track machines are sometimes stabled there, and possibly as an access point for road-rail machines.

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the provision and length of any loops/sidings was shown in the relevant sectional appendix.

 

There's a 1960 one at http://www.britishrailways1960.co.uk

 

The page for the Settle-Carlisle is here: http://www.britishrailways1960.co.uk/CLCG01.html

IIRC the length given is the number of standard wagons and not including the loco + brake van

The Standard Length Unit or SLU was 21 feet. The standage available was the number of SLU plus 1 loco and 2 brake vans IIRC.
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Just spotted this, and while not relevent to the S & C, i wondered if this might be of interest.

 

Its the track layout and siding length for Normanton Station, West Yorkshire drawn by the North Eastern Railway as of August 1901, appologies for the photo quility, its from my phone.

 

Gary

post-3003-0-82525300-1517345109_thumb.jpg

post-3003-0-16490000-1517345140_thumb.jpg

post-3003-0-82983200-1517345158_thumb.jpg

post-3003-0-54400100-1517345175_thumb.jpg

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There would be a requirement for the guard to inform the bobby that the train was inside, tail lamp complete.

 

And where there was no telephone provided, the message was often conveyed by taking the lamp off and waving it at the box so the bobby could see it.

 

They're still there at Kirkby Stephen (the Up one being made up of bits of the former goods yard and cattle dock). There's no need for their original purpose any more but I think track machines are sometimes stabled there, and possibly as an access point for road-rail machines.

 

I've never seen the down one used but the up refuge is still occasionally used by the Engineers. It has also been used for stabling bent 156s after the accidents at Ais Gill and Crosby Garrett in the 1990s :-(

 

Incidentally, Regulation 3.5 (Warning Acceptance) was still permitted on the down line as late as 1992, in clear weather only. It was either for setting back into the down lie by or was a throwback to crossing over into the yard (which was on the up side) thirty years previously which no-one had ever seen the seen to rescind.  

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And where there was no telephone provided, the message was often conveyed by taking the lamp off and waving it at the box so the bobby could see it.

 

 

I've never seen the down one used but the up refuge is still occasionally used by the Engineers. It has also been used for stabling bent 156s after the accidents at Ais Gill and Crosby Garrett in the 1990s :-(

 

Incidentally, Regulation 3.5 (Warning Acceptance) was still permitted on the down line as late as 1992, in clear weather only. It was either for setting back into the down lie by or was a throwback to crossing over into the yard (which was on the up side) thirty years previously which no-one had ever seen the seen to rescind.  

The Up siding has road access, which must make it rather more useful. There must be (or have been at any rate) some thought that the down siding was needed for something, the pointwork for it was renewed about 10-15 years ago at any rate (in a slightly different place, which threw things off for my model before I realised, grr!)

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Incidentally, where a Refuge Siding is in the facing direction the buffer stop displays a white light, not red. (This can still be seen on the Reversing Siding for the Wensleydale branch at Northallerton)

 

White lights on buffer stops are used where it is thought that a red buffer stop light might be mistaken for the tail light of a train standing on an adjacent running line by a driver on that adjacent line.

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Lie By Siding was the common name for them on the Midland. Other railways had different names, the GWR called them Refuge Sidings.

On a  running schedule, when  detained in a loop by the signaller for advancing other traffic,  we describe and book the time delay as being "recessed".

I do not know if this term is old or modern, and if regional or not.  Similarly in some regions signal  route indicators are lunars or feathers, and  ground signals are dummies or dods,  yet wherever we work, everyone  seems to understand these mess room terms  in spite of official  attempts to  banish old railway  vernacular from the "infrastructure" ( infrastructure   == management-speak for the privatised railway)

Edited by Pandora
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White lights on buffer stops are used where it is thought that a red buffer stop light might be mistaken for the tail light of a train standing on an adjacent running line by a driver on that adjacent line.

Rather than a tail lamp it was to prevent the driver taking the lamp as a red signal. The same applies to the side lamps on an unfitted freight when on a line with another line in the same direction adjecent. The side lamp was changed from red to white.
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The Up siding has road access, which must make it rather more useful. There must be (or have been at any rate) some thought that the down siding was needed for something, the pointwork for it was renewed about 10-15 years ago at any rate (in a slightly different place, which threw things off for my model before I realised, grr!)

 

I vaguely remember something about the crossover being renewed a while ago which may or may not have been something to do with the service which used to start there before the early morning Leeds - Carlisle was reinstated. The lie by points may have been renewed at the same time. I may be talking utter rubbish too.

 

On a  running schedule, when  detained in a loop by the signaller for advancing other traffic,  we describe and book the time delay as being "recessed".

I do not know if this term is old or modern, and if regional or not.  Similarly in some regions signal  route indicators are lunars or feathers, and  ground signals are dummies or dods,  yet wherever we work, everyone  seems to understand these mess room terms  in spite of official  attempts to  banish old railway  vernacular from the "infrastructure" ( infrastructure   == management-speak for the privatised railway)

 

"Recessed" seems to have been in widespread use for a long time. In spite of official attempts to modernise language (mostly by people who know a lot about business theory and nothing about people in my experience) some of the performance regime terms are straight out of the old telegraph codebook - 'Pine' and 'Cape' for example.  

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I vaguely remember something about the crossover being renewed a while ago which may or may not have been something to do with the service which used to start there before the early morning Leeds - Carlisle was reinstated. The lie by points may have been renewed at the same time. I may be talking utter rubbish too.

It could well have been. Quite a bit seems to have changed then. There used to be another set of points from the up siding which has now gone (originally it was a three-way, with the third long-gone route going in to the goods shed). There's some video of it being used somewhere to run around a train when BR decided they wanted to train up some steam drivers for specials. The point rodding runs all moved around at the same time. All very irritating for someone trying to model the station in the 60s! I really should count my blessings though, there probably aren't many stations on the network that have had fewer changes in that time.

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On a  running schedule, when  detained in a loop by the signaller for advancing other traffic,  we describe and book the time delay as being "recessed".

I do not know if this term is old or modern, and if regional or not.  Similarly in some regions signal  route indicators are lunars or feathers, and  ground signals are dummies or dods,  yet wherever we work, everyone  seems to understand these mess room terms  in spite of official  attempts to  banish old railway  vernacular from the "infrastructure" ( infrastructure   == management-speak for the privatised railway)

 

'Recessed' is a nice straightforward word which describes exactly what it means - certainly in everyday use on BR up to the end of that concern and I doubt if anything better has been brought into use since then although it wouldn't surprise me if someone has tried it.

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