TTS problem

[malcolmv]

My local model shop are pulling their hair out,I,ve now tried to  fit 5 TTS decoders into a Hornby  R3443 ,I use a Prodigy Advance2,when programing on thePrograming track I can hear it programing but when you try to run it I get nothing no sound no motion.My model shop says 85% of these decoders are returned to them with the same problem & they have returned all their stock to Hornby,Is this common or have this model shop just had a bad batch???

[smokebox]

Problems with TTS decoders are well known. See https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/forum/Hornby-tts-decoders-reported-problems/?p=1

[Phil S]

It would perhaps have been more helpful, if that was a recent comment from the model shop, to say that Hornby have a fix for the problem(s) - and reprogram the decoders to cure the problem -  admittedly it seemed to take a long time before they (Hornby) admitted it - perhaps until they had worked out the solution !! - because I recall it first being reported by a Canadian user on this forum in about April 2017, and the resolution was announced by Hornby in November on their Forum; in response to lobbying perhaps.   I was then invited to send 12 locos/decoders back, and they were returned working okay within the week  ... which reminds me I must pay in the cheque refunding my postage !

 

There may have been some other problems, but my experience was a loco which had been working moments before becoming apparently totally dead when next placed on the track  and not responding to re-programming either ... BUT when physically rotated on the same DCC track, worked normally and programmed normally  .. and DCC is a symmetrical AC signal !!! (except when Loco 0 is used - which my ROCO controllers do not allow). great puzzlement 8-)

 

When I first experienced the problem - almost a year ago - I was testing a small Oval layout for demo running at  Eurotrack Show in February ... and I took it to my great nephews to test it out, and therefore chose my TTS Railroad locos (damage prevention!!) ...  I did not realise at the time, with the 2 boys on either side of the oval, that when the loco stopped working it had just been lifted off the track and put back the next time facing the other way [the boys were running 1 of the 2 loops each and always wanted the other's loco 8-) ]..... and it was made more difficult by my using a VERY USEFUL combination of a Roco Maus2 (the boy's controller) and my Multimaus Controller ... with the locos initially programmed with 4-digit addresses .... which I had to change to 2 digit short addresses to get them to work:: THE PROBLEM DID NOT APPEAR  when using the Roco MAUS2 (1-99) AS MASTER and the MAUS2 programs some locos/decoders that the Multimaus does not !!! (because the Maus 2 tries several old methods of programming as described in its manual)

This lead me to comparing my Roco Maus 2, Multimaus, MultimausPro, Z21 and Hornby Select Controllers with the very repeatable problem but ALL showing perfect waveform timing !! (The Select waveform SHAPE was ringing badly unless a couple of decoders were added as load - but it worked, as did the Maus2 at all times ) ...  I found it hard to believe the Canadian Contributor's accurate observation that it was the physical orientation at first ... but could them repeat the result at will.....  I still do not know how they got it wrong !    I was blaming charged-up capacitors as I did not realise I was sometimes placing the loco (especially HST power car pairs) the other way around on the track !!   ( I didn't test my Sprog or Massoth Controllers - before the solution was found )

Edited January 29, 2018 by Phil S

[RAF96]

As to the directional problem. I believe it was found by accident when linking a pair of Class 20s which most will know run nose to nose. One would program and respond correctly and tother wouldnt. Subsequent investigation found this directional anomaly allied to the use of ‘alien’ controllers.

 

All now fixed of course, but no doubt there are still a few dodgy decoders sitting on shelves awaiting a customer despite the passage of time since the problematic event. I can hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth already.

 

Rob

[chriswright03]

I may be completely wide of the mark here but I waited for ages for the TTS 37 decoder to be released.  It was on order for weeks and I suspect the delivery was delayed while Hornby sorted out some of the snags.  At least that is what I am hoping anyway.  Since fitting my decoder the loco has been back in the box and untried so I will see how it performs on the track when I have chance,

 

I accept that Hornby sound will not be as good as the main players in the market but of course we all want the loco to run properly.  I think it is great that we have a more cost effective solution to adding sound and am sure that in time all of the hiccups will be sorted and we will be delighted with our choice of cheaper.  In the meantime it would seem Hornby are dealing with problems for customers rather than shying away from them and that is positive.

[malcolmv]

Spoke to Hornby today  they said to  send TTs decoder back to then but at the moment it is not compatable with Prodogy DDC system

[S&DWatty]

Ive just got a TTS Merchant Navy decoder back from Hornby, re-blown with their latest firmware and it's working fine again.  All good.  They turned it round within the week too.  Hopefully, their latest batches on sale will not have the same teething problems that some of us on here have noticed recently.

 

I use Dynamis by the way for DCC control.

 

Dave

[Sir TophamHatt]

Not compatible with Prodigy Advance?

I wonder what it is that makes TTS decoders incompatible?

 

Can anyone confirm if they've got a PA2 and TTS decoders?

[RAF96]

The problem was a simple timing issue in command processing, now fixed according to Hornby and proof tested with umpteen different makes of controllers to ensure they will work, unfortunately according to forum traffic it appears the latest ECoS firmaware revision has gone off at half cock and reversed the problem i.e. latest TTS and latest ECoS are still awry.

 

Talk to each other folks.

Rob

[pheaton]

what about the previous version of firmware on the ECoS, im interested in investing in some class 31 decoders ?

[paftrain]

Not compatible with Prodigy Advance?

I wonder what it is that makes TTS decoders incompatible?

 

Can anyone confirm if they've got a PA2 and TTS decoders?

I have  Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance2 and several Hornby sound locos including TTS. Apart from a Class 31 TTS decoder that I bought separately, they all operate ok. The class 31 went back to Hornby for a reblow and now works fine. Apparently a lot of class31 decoders sold separately were faulty and Hornby offered to reblow free of charge and refund postage.

[GoingUnderground]

I think some of you may be working off incomplete information in reaching conclusions about the ECoS firmware changes.

 

The release notes for the last 2 releases of the ECoS firmware make no mention of fixing issues with Hornby TTS decoders.

 

Secondly the guy with the problem has posted further information on the ESU ECoS Support forum on 15th Feb as follows:

 

As it happens I was going to reset controller back to previous version and having access to two 50200s would mean I could explore fully. So first I put loco back on track with current setup / latest version and to my shock it worked and fully. I then remembered some other posts elsewhere of working only in one direction and yes I had put her on the other way round. So gave it a good running sound test and checked to see if I could read CVs and I did. Now turned the loco around and hey presto non functioning and could not read CVs. Now as an aside once it did not matter which way round a 6 pin decoder was fitted but I found in last couple of years if not fitted correctly you can not read CVs. So I reversed the decoder plug but all that did was change the working direction.
I have given full sitrep above which may be useful for others.
Thank you for your speedy assistance
In future I shall always test but directions meanwhile back to Hornby
Regards

 

So the problem with this particular loco still seems to lie with the TTS decoder and not the ECoS firmware. Hopefully for the guy concerned, when he gets the loco back from Hornby it should be working irrespective of the direction in which it is facing.

Edited February 20, 2018 by GoingUnderground

[Sir TophamHatt]

Just to confirm:

 

Bought my decoder from Olivias Trains.

Fitted it but when trying to read the decoder address, it didn't respond.

Tried it on the track anyway and selected 3, but nothing.

Tried re-seating the decoder, nothing.

Contacted Olivias who hinted I must have damaged it.

They said they'd replace it "this once" <-- I'm sure the DSR would have something to say about being sold a faulty product - one that they admit was potentially faulty!

 

Spoke to Hornby yesterday.

The guy laughed when I said I'd read a fair few had been returned to them.

He said it was a problem with a selection of chips which had been solved quite a while ago.

Talked me through a series of tests:  resetting CV8 to 8, trying to read CV151.  It didn't seem to reset but as soon as I tried reading CV151, I heard a small buzz from the train like it reacted.

Reset CV8 to 8 again and all working fine.

 

So...

Not a great experience from Olivias, but glad it's all working properly now.

 

Seem to have had a spell of bad experiences recently

Edited February 21, 2018 by Sir TophamHatt

[Izzy]

I have a PA2 system, and also bought a few of the class 31 decoders when they originally arrived. I have not tried programming them using the program track, but using Program-on-main I have had no issues getting them to accept any CV changes. However, they will only respond/program when placed on the track one way around when using my Sprog/JMRI to make CV changes, so I guess they may be some of these 'faulty' ones.

 

As they work okay either way around (both directions) on my layout via the PA2, and have been fitted into place/soldered leads etc, I can't be bothered to rip them out to return them. If I ever get any more, which is doubtful now, I will fully test them before any install.

 

Izzy

[S&DWatty]

Morning all, here's another problem I noticed following fitting a TTS chip to a Bachmann 3F last week and wondered what the consensus amongst th egroup was on this:

 

I fitted a TTS J36 sound decoder to the 21 pin plug adapted with a 21-6 pin converter in the tender of the 3F, swopped the round speaker for an oblong one  and managed to fit it all inside the tender space no problem.  Unfortunately, when re-assembled the chip appears to accept the initial input command ok and then just continue, e'g. if you set off in one direction or play a sound the decoder seems to ignore further commands.  I seems to reset after pressing Stop on the Dynamis I use for DCC control but then only seems to act on the first commend thereafter as before.

 

Im assuming the replacement speaker isnt doing anything wierd to the chip as it is one from another sound chiop so impedence isnt an issue?

 

Ive tried a CV8 reset and CV151 and CV 152 to see if I can encourage the chip to respond better but to no avail yet.

 

Is it a "return job" to the seller?

 

Any thoughts appreciated as always.

 

dave

 

 

[S&DWatty]

On ‎21‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 08:38, Sir TophamHatt said:

Just to confirm:

 

Bought my decoder from Olivias Trains.

Fitted it but when trying to read the decoder address, it didn't respond.

Tried it on the track anyway and selected 3, but nothing.

Tried re-seating the decoder, nothing.

Contacted Olivias who hinted I must have damaged it.

They said they'd replace it "this once" <-- I'm sure the DSR would have something to say about being sold a faulty product - one that they admit was potentially faulty!

 

Spoke to Hornby yesterday.

The guy laughed when I said I'd read a fair few had been returned to them.

He said it was a problem with a selection of chips which had been solved quite a while ago.

Talked me through a series of tests:  resetting CV8 to 8, trying to read CV151.  It didn't seem to reset but as soon as I tried reading CV151, I heard a small buzz from the train like it reacted.

Reset CV8 to 8 again and all working fine.

 

So...

Not a great experience from Olivias, but glad it's all working properly now.

 

Seem to have had a spell of bad experiences recently

Ah, just read this thread and will try reading CV151 and resetting CV8 again and hope for the same result as you!

 

[Izzy]

2 hours ago, S&DWatty said:

Morning all, here's another problem I noticed following fitting a TTS chip to a Bachmann 3F last week and wondered what the consensus amongst th egroup was on this:

 

I fitted a TTS J36 sound decoder to the 21 pin plug adapted with a 21-6 pin converter in the tender of the 3F, swopped the round speaker for an oblong one  and managed to fit it all inside the tender space no problem.  Unfortunately, when re-assembled the chip appears to accept the initial input command ok and then just continue, e'g. if you set off in one direction or play a sound the decoder seems to ignore further commands.  I seems to reset after pressing Stop on the Dynamis I use for DCC control but then only seems to act on the first commend thereafter as before.

 

Im assuming the replacement speaker isnt doing anything wierd to the chip as it is one from another sound chiop so impedence isnt an issue?

 

Ive tried a CV8 reset and CV151 and CV 152 to see if I can encourage the chip to respond better but to no avail yet.

 

Is it a "return job" to the seller?

 

Any thoughts appreciated as always.

 

dave

 

 

Just make sure it isn’t the speaker, different decoders can use other than 8ohm, which is what the TTS need. Can you temporarily re-attach the original to eliminate this as the problem? 
 

Izzy

[S&DWatty]

Izzy, yes Ill try that thanks.  Thinking back to the fitting process the decoder worked fine with the original speaker attached and I soldered the replacement speaker on because it was rectangular and would fit in the tender of the 3F.  It was from a different sound chip so might not be 8 Ohm.....

[Phil S]

Did you solder the new speaker connections at the speaker-end or the decoder-end: Hornby instructions advocate / state that the soldering should be done at the speaker end - ie well way from the decoder.

 

I had to return one TTS for a sound-related failure ... the original wiring had perhaps been 'prolonged' ... such that the insulation of the speaker wire at the decoder end had melted bak several millimetres  ... and sufficient I think to unwittingly make contact  elsewhere  ... as I assume it did one the body was back on..    replaced by Hornby under warranty.

 

Apart from the 180 reversal problem which caused me to delay fitting or refitting decoders for a long time  [ from release to solution 2017-2018 ]

I caught up earlier this year - andthe only 'problem' experienced since was 'apparent non programming'  ... which appeared to be related to how quickly I came out of the Multimaus programming menu after  it considered the sequence complete  .... repeating more slowly ie patience solved the problem.  [ I usually simply use Multimaus and Amplifier with regulated SMPS power supply - not the unregulated transformer of old - but do sometimes use the MultiCentrale Pro or Z21 with readback .... but find it slows the sytem for no great benefit  .... when I change values, I either don't care what was there before, or since I recently put them in, I can remember what they were... or I start in the middle, and diagnose whichever way seems appropriate.

[RAF96]

Some controllers (I can’t recall which) can be a bit tardy in programming. The screen says its done but the internsl gubbins is still working away. As stated by others have patience and let the controller do its thing before pressing on to the next step. A case of doing it by the numbers Army style - 1, pause, sip of tea, pause,  2, etc.

[S&DWatty]

On ‎21‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 13:04, S&DWatty said:

Izzy, yes Ill try that thanks.  Thinking back to the fitting process the decoder worked fine with the original speaker attached and I soldered the replacement speaker on because it was rectangular and would fit in the tender of the 3F.  It was from a different sound chip so might not be 8 Ohm.....

I got some iphone speakers off eBay and fitted one so the impedence is no longer an issue.  Upon testing the sounds worked ok but the motor functions are now working with only a very slow response to deceleration in particular.  Strangely, it seems fine on start up but as soon as you play a second twin-track sound the motor response slows so as to make it uncontrollable i.e. it takes 20 seconds to respond to commands.

Ill continue testing and have reset the decoder a couple of times using CV8.  Ill take RAF96's approach and go through each step very slowly as that might yield a result, otherwise I reckon my excursion into the wrong rated speaker may have caused the chip to partly fail.