Blue repaints 1966/67

[Russell Saxton]

According to my friend who revels in such things, there was apparently an edict issued to all the BR works that all locomotives were to be outshopped in Rail Blue from 'now', not certain of the date but probably 1966 or 1967.

Apparently Swindon continued, stubbornly to turn out 350s in green until 1970....

 

Incidentally I'd always assumed that a fair number of Brush Type 4s were new in blue, I hadn't realised it was only nine of them. Learned something new again today!

Not quite, they reverted to rail blue very quickly, 1967. Odd locos got released in maroon and green though and Crewe was a particular offender, releasing several 40s and 47s in green in 1971, one reason why so many survived into TOPS in green, 34 40s and around 100 47s.

[Russell Saxton]

There were around 550 green locos in TOPS, I'm trying to collect shots of them all. Many are to be found here, all shots welcome...

https://www.flickr.com/groups/br_green_liveried_tops_locos/

[jonny777]

Which ones do you need Russ? I have a box of mostly Norman Preedy b/w images which I picked up at an auction. I can look through them and maybe fill in gaps - but none are in colour.  

Edited August 28, 2018 by jonny777

[slilley]

According to my friend who revels in such things, there was apparently an edict issued to all the BR works that all locomotives were to be outshopped in Rail Blue from 'now', not certain of the date but probably 1966 or 1967.

Apparently Swindon continued, stubbornly to turn out 350s in green until 1970....

 

Incidentally I'd always assumed that a fair number of Brush Type 4s were new in blue, I hadn't realised it was only nine of them. Learned something new again today!

 

It is actually way more complicated than that. The National Archives at Kew has several files on this issue. Yes there was a BR Board decision that locomotives would be painted blue. That had followed a series of discussions about the badges to be carried, Type 4 and 5 locomotives originally were to have cast BR symbols Types 1-3 and shunters would have to have a transfer.

 

Ted Wilkes of Wilkes Ashmore the design consultants had been involved in some of the work with the new livery going back to November 1965. He had been asked to come up with ideas as to where the blue should go in relation to the yellow warning panel etc.

 

The decision on blue from the BR Board was decided on 9th June 1966. See attached. Painting diagrams had to be prepared which took time, and so in the interim you have a number of variations. The Class 33s being fitted with push-pull equipment for the Bournemouth scheme were the first of their type to go into blue and there was correspondence in 1966 asking what should go where, as the locos needed painting before going back into traffic.  The painting diagrams were not really completed until November 1967, again see attached.

[Phil Bullock]

Not quite, they reverted to rail blue very quickly, 1967. Odd locos got released in maroon and green though and Crewe was a particular offender, releasing several 40s and 47s in green in 1971, one reason why so many survived into TOPS in green, 34 40s and around 100 47s.

 

And Swindon shopped D838 in maroon FYE after it had done D864 in blue.......!!!

 

Phil

[Western Glory]

Built in Blue you had

400-449

1953-61

7660-77

8178-99, 8300-27

 

The first of each class to go blue as far as my research says were;

D4

D101

D184

D237

D602

D864

D1030

D1528

Shunters-some debate, poss D3464? Unsure re 03s, Class 10 poss D3638.

D2554

D2992

D5068

D5389

D5649

D5701

D6300/3/14/27 unsure which was first.

D6937

D7033

D8049

Claytons-no idea, several done at once in late 1967.

D9002

 

I think it's safe to say that D5909 was the first of its class to go blue! No prizes for guessing where I saw it.

[Strathwood]

Not quite, they reverted to rail blue very quickly, 1967. Odd locos got released in maroon and green though and Crewe was a particular offender, releasing several 40s and 47s in green in 1971, one reason why so many survived into TOPS in green, 34 40s and around 100 47s.

Crewe also sent out 37s and 20s in tarted up green during 71 too.

 

Kevin

[stovepipe]

My admittedly incomplete records have D270 slightly before D237, can you confirm Russell?

[Russell Saxton]

My admittedly incomplete records have D270 slightly before D237, can you confirm Russell?

yes D237 was done 11/5/67 and d270 16/5/67. Five days!

[russ p]

It is actually way more complicated than that. The National Archives at Kew has several files on this issue. Yes there was a BR Board decision that locomotives would be painted blue. That had followed a series of discussions about the badges to be carried, Type 4 and 5 locomotives originally were to have cast BR symbols Types 1-3 and shunters would have to have a transfer.

 

Ted Wilkes of Wilkes Ashmore the design consultants had been involved in some of the work with the new livery going back to November 1965. He had been asked to come up with ideas as to where the blue should go in relation to the yellow warning panel etc.

 

The decision on blue from the BR Board was decided on 9th June 1966. See attached. Painting diagrams had to be prepared which took time, and so in the interim you have a number of variations. The Class 33s being fitted with push-pull equipment for the Bournemouth scheme were the first of their type to go into blue and there was correspondence in 1966 asking what should go where, as the locos needed painting before going back into traffic.  The painting diagrams were not really completed until November 1967, again see attached.

This is an interesting document, it includes a few types which never got blue livery such as EM2s and Tommy plus the 14s but no mention of the 15s which always surprises me that none were ever blue

[Russell Saxton]

Which ones do you need Russ? I have a box of mostly Norman Preedy b/w images which I picked up at an auction. I can look through them and maybe fill in gaps - but none are in colour.  

Ok, I need (main line classes only as i need loads of shunters)

 

20017

20056

 

24069

24082

24110

25005

25251

25285

37176

37208

37223

37231

37238

37239

37267

40031

40087

40140

40182

47148

47175

47213

47227

47297

47311

47313

47318

47354

47362

47374.

 

I have got a poor quality (though still amazing) one of 31294 coutesy of marc Koch and there are a few others I suspect may not be green TOPS which are as follows. (Any of hse might or migt not be green TOPS, proof via a green phot or one blue pre TOPS required.

 

20028

24042

25149

25201

25204

25205

25206

25215

25235

25268

25279

25283

37186

37228

47125

47182

47184

47205

47212

47319.

 

 

[adb968008]

On 27/08/2018 at 13:12, Russell Saxton said:

Swindon repainted with panels because of a dispute with PW staff, somewhere I have the details. I'll dig them out. The early blue 45s were done en masse at Toton in June/july 1966 and the idea was abandoned.

Chromatic blue doesn't exist. D1030 was spray painted rather than brush painted and it gives a metallic finish which looks different in the sun, however compare a BSYP loco to a BFYE loco if you can find a picture and you can see that the shade of blue is identical.

It's one of those long standing myths that regardless of evidence will not die, file under 40106 in blue, class 40 bonnets in grey, D4 with panels etc.

June 9 1966 was the date that the order to paint everything blue went out. It only took 14 years to do.

 

The cfps themselves say that examining the loco there is evidence it got BR Blue, at least on one side.

 

paint conspiracies are endless, I recall reading a story that 92220 and 92203 swapped identities, after 92220 had its accident, with a couple of questionable pictures, which even David Shepherd weighed in in, saying 92203 had green paint on its cylinder covers.. the only problem is 92220 (nor any of the BR stds of any class) had green cylinders.

 

 

 

[BrushVeteran]

I recall seeing 40106 in blue undercoat and then a decision was made to use green as the topcoat to mark the last classified overhaul of the type.

Regarding D838 being outshopped in maroon FYE after D864, the reason was D838 was awaiting bogies and final drive components but the shell had been painted long before that as part of an unclassified repair. I know someone who worked at Swindon Works at that time and he mentioned that it was sometimes difficult to ascertain what was having what done due to the constant component swapping on diesel hydraulics to keep them running in the numbers required.

[Clive Mortimore]

In the early 60s ICI "perfected" a blue paint which didn't fade quickly. I had the science around blue paint and why it fades quickly explained to me but I am not sure I fully understood it so why try and repeat it here. Like most things in life it happens so accept it. 

 

In the mid sixties when Dr Beeching was trying to improve BR image (the so called modern image by modellers) BR chose blue as their new colour.

 

Didn't Dr B move from ICI to BR? Or is it just a coincidence?

[Andy Kirkham]

14 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

The cfps themselves say that examining the loco there is evidence it got BR Blue, at least on one side.

 

paint conspiracies are endless, I recall reading a story that 92220 and 92203 swapped identities, after 92220 had its accident, with a couple of questionable pictures, which even David Shepherd weighed in in, saying 92203 had green paint on its cylinder covers.. the only problem is 92220 (nor any of the BR stds of any class) had green cylinders.

 

 

92220 did have green cylinders for a time - seemingly with two different styles of lining

The clearest images are at the bottom of this page http://www.railwayana.net/guides/Loco_Train/loco nameplates/loco_nameplates_steam.htm and here 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Andy Kirkham

[slilley]

18 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

The cfps themselves say that examining the loco there is evidence it got BR Blue, at least on one side.

 

paint conspiracies are endless, I recall reading a story that 92220 and 92203 swapped identities, after 92220 had its accident, with a couple of questionable pictures, which even David Shepherd weighed in in, saying 92203 had green paint on its cylinder covers.. the only problem is 92220 (nor any of the BR stds of any class) had green cylinders.

 

 

 

 

One of the Clans had green cylinders, lined in orange and black.

[Siphon208]

On 21/04/2019 at 09:50, BrushVeteran said:

I recall seeing 40106 in blue undercoat and then a decision was made to use green as the topcoat to mark the last classified overhaul of the type.

Regarding D838 being outshopped in maroon FYE after D864, the reason was D838 was awaiting bogies and final drive components but the shell had been painted long before that as part of an unclassified repair. I know someone who worked at Swindon Works at that time and he mentioned that it was sometimes difficult to ascertain what was having what done due to the constant component swapping on diesel hydraulics to keep them running in the numbers required.

40106 came through my local station, Hooton, several times- I always thought it Odd that she carried Tops on all 4 sides, and was still in BR Green, with the late pattern BR badge still on- Here she is on ballast duties-