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White/Blue Refurbished DMU livery


bennyboy
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2 hours ago, keefer said:

The one at Iver 1979 was a fairly common formation, a cl.121 standing in for a cl.117 DMBS.

 

EDIT: This was a more likely livery combination as only two cl.121 vehicles received white/blue - DMBS W55034 and DTS W56283

https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-121/liveries

 

Yeah, we had a discussion about them earlier in the thread.

 

 

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Just now, Mol_PMB said:

In my very fallible memory, many east anglian DMUs avoided this livery entirely. All-over blue survived rather late, there was a brief period of blue/grey but NSE appeared quite early.  

 

It seemed to me at the time to be unusual on the Cross-City line - what proportion of Tyseley's fleet actually carried the livery? My memory is of blue throughout the 70s with blue/grey becoming the norm by the early 80s - much smarter-looking.

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2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

In my very fallible memory, many east anglian DMUs avoided this livery entirely. All-over blue survived rather late, there was a brief period of blue/grey but NSE appeared quite early.  

 

The early 1980's Anglia stock was mostly Class 105 with a few odd balls mixed in. Very few 105s were refurbished and all them were LMR allocated. The late 1980's Class 101 were drafted in after B/G became the norm. CA allocated 101s started to get NSE livery in 1987 

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2 hours ago, stovepipe said:

He's saying the refurbished 105s were LMR allocated…however I’m not aware of any 105s being refurbished with white and blue livery.

 

Ahh, yes. Thanks and apologies to Bomag.

Likewise I am not aware of any 105s in White/Blue.

I seem to recall that the white & blue livery had something to do with Metropolitan PTE's back in the day ?

Maybe that is why Anglia escaped the livery as I doubt there were many PTE's out that way such as WMPTE, SYPTE, GMPTE etc although I think the Cambridge-Royston shuttles had white & blue examples of the 101s.

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On 04/09/2021 at 11:35, Scott B said:

 

Ahh, yes. Thanks and apologies to Bomag.

Likewise I am not aware of any 105s in White/Blue.

I seem to recall that the white & blue livery had something to do with Metropolitan PTE's back in the day ?

Maybe that is why Anglia escaped the livery as I doubt there were many PTE's out that way such as WMPTE, SYPTE, GMPTE etc although I think the Cambridge-Royston shuttles had white & blue examples of the 101s.

 

White and Blue was not related to PTEs, but being refurbished during the program from 1976-onwards. All PTEs paid for stock in their area to be refurbished but DMUs on non-PTE services were also refurbished. A couple of 105 power twins were refurbished in late 1980 (50761/50777/50794/50804) - as a test but apparently the cost was excessive - the white / blue livery had been superseded by then.

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On 11/07/2021 at 03:51, montyburns56 said:

 

And pretty soon the train will be the same shade as the tracks.

Yet for some reason, the photos mostly depict trains in clean condition  despite a range of dates, covering at least 8 years. 

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57 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Yet for some reason, the photos mostly depict trains in clean condition  despite a range of dates, covering at least 8 years. 

 

Of course. Who'd want to take a photo of a dirty DMU? Only got 24 or 36 shots for the day's outing, remember, unless you were really extravagant and took an extra roll of film.

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On 03/09/2021 at 22:20, Bomag said:

 

The early 1980's Anglia stock was mostly Class 105 with a few odd balls mixed in. Very few 105s were refurbished and all them were LMR allocated. The late 1980's Class 101 were drafted in after B/G became the norm. CA allocated 101s started to get NSE livery in 1987 

Norwich units in the latter 1970s were mostly classes 105 and 104, from memory. Neither type was destined to go through the official refurbishment with white livery. There may have been a few 101 triples but by the time they were refurbished, the livery had changed to Blue/Grey. 

The nearest white liveried units were the small allocation at Cambridge specifically for Royston - Cambridge and Hertford - Huntingdon(?) shuttles  to fill in the gaps when GN Electrification was completed initially.

Cambridge may have had visits by units on longer distance services from Doncaster.

By the time there was a migration of Class 101s to East Anglia, the white livery had been repainted into Blue/Grey.

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On 03/09/2021 at 19:45, Compound2632 said:

 

It seemed to me at the time to be unusual on the Cross-City line - what proportion of Tyseley's fleet actually carried the livery? My memory is of blue throughout the 70s with blue/grey becoming the norm by the early 80s - much smarter-looking.

Many of the Tyseley fleet of Classes 101 and 116 received the white livery. 

Have a look at  https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/advanced-search/

From the search options, for the livery select "refurbished", for the region select LM and for the area select Birmingham. That should find over 100 images. 

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Does anyone know if the livery was ever considered for hauled stock? There was a lot of hauled stock on local and regional services in 1974. Is there any info on who designed it?

 

It has quite a DB ICE feel, but presumably the DB livery came out much later in the 1980s? 

 

Incidentally, if anyone doesn't know Farish have just brought out a very nice 108 3car in this livery.

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2 hours ago, fezza said:

Does anyone know if the livery was ever considered for hauled stock? There was a lot of hauled stock on local and regional services in 1974. Is there any info on who designed it?

 

I very much doubt it. Back in 70s, sectorisation hadn't even been thought of and hauled stock could still work long distance faster services one day and locals the next. And in those days with the launch of the Inter-City brand, coaches not in Blue/Grey spoiling the corporate image would have been a no-no.

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3 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

 

I very much doubt it. Back in 70s, sectorisation hadn't even been thought of and hauled stock could still work long distance faster services one day and locals the next. And in those days with the launch of the Inter-City brand, coaches not in Blue/Grey spoiling the corporate image would have been a no-no.

That's true but there was a distinction between local DMU livery (blue) and intercity DMU livery (blue/grey) and yet we know intercity DMUs could often be found on local services and vice versa. 

 

The refurb livery always struck me as a very stylish and modern livery - and much more distinctive than the blue/grey. It is also interesting that blue / grey was not used for the prototype APT and HST - surprising given the focus on blue/grey corporate image. Were some BR managers toying with ditching blue/grey in the early seventies?

Edited by fezza
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11 minutes ago, fezza said:

The refurb livery always struck me as a very stylish and modern livery - and much more distinctive than the blue/grey. It is also interesting that blue / grey was not used for the prototype APT and HST - surprising given the focus on blue/grey corporate image. Were some BR managers toying with ditching blue/grey in the early seventies?

 

I think the reverse blue grey was used to differentiate special trains that were not to be associated with normal trains, hence why Pullmans got it too.

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1 hour ago, fezza said:

It is also interesting that blue / grey was not used for the prototype APT and HST - surprising given the focus on blue/grey corporate image. Were some BR managers toying with ditching blue/grey in the early seventies?

The protoype HST was in one of the Corporate schemes, that used for Pullmans with the colours reversed. APT was a variation on that with unpainted metal substituting for the grey,  but Rail Blue used in near Pullman style.

There was a move away from the original schemes by the late '70s (e.g. Large Logo blue) and the   APT-P effectively previewed what was to become 1983's Inter-City colours in 1977/8.

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3 hours ago, Titan said:

I think the reverse blue grey was used to differentiate special trains that were not to be associated with normal trains, hence why Pullmans got it too.

It definitely made the Golden Arrow pullmans look a bit 'different'.....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/13252443825/

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 15/09/2021 at 03:55, fezza said:

That's true but there was a distinction between local DMU livery (blue) and intercity DMU livery (blue/grey) and yet we know intercity DMUs could often be found on local services and vice versa. 

Overall blue was originally used for non—gangwayed compartment stock, NPCCS, and anything powered. It was decided to paint intercity DMUs in blue/grey for marketing reasons, but then the 4TCs were blue because they counted as EMUs that happened to not have a motor car. (Similarly the double arrows were only applied to locos and MUs.) B/G seems to have spread across EMUs faster than DMUs.

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