CAF presents first class 331 for Northern

[DavidB-AU]

THE first class 331 Civity EMU for Arriva Trains Northern was presented to media and stakeholders at CAFs Zaragoza plant on January 31.

 

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/caf-presents-first-civity-emu-for-northern.html

[MGR Hooper!]

THE first class 331 Civity EMU for Arriva Trains Northern was presented to media and stakeholders at CAFs Zaragoza plant on January 31.

 

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/caf-presents-first-civity-emu-for-northern.html

Looks quite nice! Bit of aggressive styling there. Is it only Arriva Trains Northern who have these or will other operators get them?

[DavidB-AU]

Looks quite nice! Bit of aggressive styling there. Is it only Arriva Trains Northern who have these or will other operators get them?

TPE is getting a variant of the Civity as the class 397. Plus Northern and West Midlands are getting the diesel version.

 

Cheers

David

[Zomboid]

As with all modern trains, shame about the seats. Looks quite nice otherwise though.

[D854_Tiger]

As with all modern trains, shame about the seats. Looks quite nice otherwise though.

 

Wonder how much experience they have in Zaragoza of designing and building trains that are Greggs proof.

[The Stationmaster]

As with all modern trains, shame about the seats. Looks quite nice otherwise though.

 

Yes, but they actually have luggage racks and the seats look to be about a thousand times better than the longitudinal bench seats we'll be lumbered with when Crossrail pokes its ugly nose west of West Drayton.  Why can't the south have decent trains like the north is getting?    

Edited February 1, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[4630]

Why can't the south have decent trains like the north is getting?    

 

I think that falls into the category of 'lights blue touch paper and retires to a safe distance'.   

[jim.snowdon]

 Why can't the south have decent trains like the north is getting?    

Because the North does have a Metro operator with an over-inflated ego?

 

Strangely enough, they met the same problem with the new S stock - fine for the Circle maybe, but not for the Metropolitan Line, especially the outer parts, so they have a variant that does have roundly 50% transverse seating. Given the way modern rolling stock is constructed it might not be too difficult to do without any real changes to the bodyshell.

 

Jim

[newbryford]

Noticed that these (along with the 195s)  have retained the yellow front..................

 

Cheers,

MIck

[Zomboid]

They might not comply with whatever standard it is that allows the yellow to be done away with, or it could be a styling decision...

[newbryford]

They might not comply with whatever standard it is that allows the yellow to be done away with, or it could be a styling decision...

 

 I would expect it's a styling decision [*] as the lighting will have to comply with the current regulations (that subsequently allow dropping of the yellow ends).

 

[*] there may be other factors that require the use of yellow - such as local/operator agreements.

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited February 14, 2018 by newbryford

[Coryton]

 

 I would expect it's a styling decision [*] as the lighting will have to comply with the current regulations (that subsequently allow dropping of the yellow ends).

 

[*] there may be other factors that require the use of yellow - such as local/operator agreements.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Maybe not everybody thinks that just because they can remove the yellow, they should?

[newbryford]

Maybe not everybody thinks that just because they can remove the yellow, they should?

 

I quite like yellow.

 

But let's not repeat the yellow end debate that has been done to death elsewhere on a number of occasions.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[SwissRailPassion]

I can't see any draught screens by the doors. They do help.

[newbryford]

I can't see any draught screens by the doors. They do help.

 

We're Northerners - we don't need anything soft like draught screens.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[caradoc]

There's no such thing as a draught in the North, just a refreshing breeze.

[rodent279]

I like them. They look very Continental. Which they should, being built in Spain.

[Steven B]

It looks a bit like what might happen if a Voyager and a Turbostar are left in the depot on their own for too long....

 

 

Steven B.

[newbryford]

Can't find a 195 thread, so I'll put this here for now.

http://railcolornews.com/2018/03/17/uk-northerns-first-caf-civity-on-its-way-to-velim/

 

Cheers,

Mick

[royaloak]

 

 I would expect it's a styling decision [*] as the lighting will have to comply with the current regulations (that subsequently allow dropping of the yellow ends).

 

[*] there may be other factors that require the use of yellow - such as local/operator agreements.

 

Cheers,

Mick

The lighting will have to comply with the rules relating to the train having a yellow end, there are different lighting rules if there is no yellow end.

[Steadfast]

Additionally one presumes that the legal,

Safety and engineering teams will have to sign off on dropping the yellow end from their livery, which would be seen by some as a retrograde safety move

 

Jo

[newbryford]

The lighting will have to comply with the rules relating to the train having a yellow end, there are different lighting rules if there is no yellow end.

 

I would have thought that all new trains comply with the current rules for lights - regardless of the yellow ends

 

If that isn't the case, then they would have had to change the lighting on the 68s as they were reliveried into TPE colours................

[phil-b259]

The lighting will have to comply with the rules relating to the train having a yellow end, there are different lighting rules if there is no yellow end.

 

I believe there is only ONE standard for new build train lighting - which allows operators to dispense with the yellow front ends. In other words it is effectively illegal to design a train that has to have yellow ends anymore.

 

These new trains carry yellow it is because Northern has decided to keep it.

 

Similarly there is no need for the yellow patch on the 800 series trains - the decision to have it is a decision of GWR.

 

In both cases safety is enhanced by its presence

[david.hill64]

Additionally one presumes that the legal,

Safety and engineering teams will have to sign off on dropping the yellow end from their livery, which would be seen by some as a retrograde safety move

 

Jo

Compliance with the Technical Standard for Interoperability may be all that is required. RSSB has a useful page on the topic:

 

https://www.rssb.co.uk/Pages/visibility-of-trains-what-is-changing.aspx

 

This states that there is now no longer any requirement to have yellow ends if the vehicle complies with the TSI, following a suitable assessment. The text used is:

 

The specific organisation introducing and actually running the train within which the authorised vehicle will be used (likely to be the train operating company) is legally responsible for controlling the risks associated with operating the trains. This includes ensuring the train is visible to relevant people on the specific routes and under the local operating conditions. This may mean implementing additional control measures beyond those in a TSI and RGSs to meet the relevant safety and other obligations.

However, the vehicle's front end colour is a choice now available to the organisation introducing the vehicle, so it can choose to use yellow or a different colour if deemed to be appropriate based on a suitable assessment.

A number of operators have already dropped the yellow front end and presumably have a suitable assessment in place. Whoever is responsible for assessing the operator's safety case will have made a determination that it is safe to drop the yellow front.

Personally I think it is a retrograde step. There are sound reasons why yellow was used (it is the last colour to be visible by people with failing eyesight - think granny walking her dogs over a crossing) and the cost of application of yellow paint is very small. So in almost all cases it seems to be a reasonably practicable measure. We will not know until somebody is struck by a non-yellow fronted train and the lawyers try to make the case that they would not have been hit of the front end were more visible, ie yellow.

Edited March 19, 2018 by david.hill64

[Barry O]

Can't find a 195 thread, so I'll put this here for now.

http://railcolornews.com/2018/03/17/uk-northerns-first-caf-civity-on-its-way-to-velim/

 

Cheers,

Mick

That cannot be the most cost effective way to test a new train. Obviously this was built into a price...they need to sort out a testing set up near where they build things...

Baz