Barclay Drawings

[High Level Kits]

Anyone got any decent drawings of either the 14 or 16 inch Barclays that Hattons are doing.

[Barclay]

Anyone got any decent drawings of either the 14 or 16 inch Barclays that Hattons are doing.

Think there were some in an old Model Railway Constructor, about 1947. Can't be sure of the exact type, but I'll dig them out tonight and have a look.

[Tiptonian]

A drawing of the 16" appeared in Model Railway Constructor September 1948. The loco featured has 3' 7" driving wheels on a 6' 0" wheelbase. In addition, there is a drawing of a 12" with 3' 2" wheels on a 5' 6" wheelbase in Railway Modeller December 1974.

[High Level Kits]

I'm looking to do chassis kits for the Hattons' model so I really need something like a GA showing brakegear, linkages and valve gear.

[Barclay]

I'm looking to do chassis kits for the Hattons' model so I really need something like a GA showing brakegear, linkages and valve gear.

Found the article - September 1948 as Tiptonian says. It's a good 7mm drawing but doesn't have what you need. Should make a good model with one of your chassis/powertrains, but hey, even better, make a complete kit - I'll buy one. (Think that might be a limited market!)

On a different thread, Ian@Stenochs tells us that "The Andrew Barclay collection is held by the Glasgow University Business Archive here. http://www.gla.ac.uk...tions/business/. They have the surviving GA drawings and lots of detail drawings. Well worth a visit." 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Barclay

[Osgood]

Sounds like the Glasgow archive is the way to go, but meanwhile:

 

I don't know if this is any help - a G.A. of an unspecified locomotive which came from a Barclay Parts Book.

Going by size of saddle tank, this might be a 12" loco - difficult to say, and I don't know what differences there were between 12" and 14/16".

Unfortunately the brake rodding is not clear but it might give you a reasonable idea of typical chassis layout.

I don't know when I would be able to get into the plan shop to have it scanned, but I could email you some high res. photos.

 

Tony

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Osgood

[rope runner]

Would this be with a view to asking the likes of Alan Gibson to do a prototypical Barclay 3'5'' 8 spoke wheel to accompany the etched chassis? 

 

These would appeal to those with the earlier Mercian/DJH kits as well. 

 

Paul A. 

[High Level Kits]

I think the archives will be the most likely source, but it's so diffiuclt to find out what's actually there.

 

I have mailed Colin about wheels, requesting a 3' 6'', bang in the middle for 14 and 16''.

 

Thanks for that drawing by the way. I'll see if I can determine if it's a 14'' or not.

 

[Gordon A]

Hi Chris,

 

At the moment I have a request lodged with Glasgow University re Barclay drawings.

 

In have had an acknowledgement that has stated it could take up to 20 working days to answer my enquiry.

 

Gordon A

[Marshall5]

 

Going by size of saddle tank, this might be a 12" loco - difficult to say, and I don't know what differences there were between 12" and 14/16".

 

 

Tony

 

 

IIRC, on the 16" Barclays the mainframes protrude through the front footplating in front of the smokebox.

Ray.

[JeremyC]

While it is not for one of the actual engines being produced by Hattons I have a copy of the G/A for Barclay 0-4-0ST loco W/N 1890 of 1926. This a 14" engine with 3' 5" wheels on a 5' 6" wheelbase.

The engine was built for Granton Gasworks and is preserved in Fife.

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/36/582/

Edited February 3, 2018 by JeremyC

[High Level Kits]

While it is not for one of the actual engines being produced by Hattons I have a copy of the G/A for Barclay 0-4-0ST loco W/N 1890 of 1926. This a 14" engine with 3' 5" wheels on a 5' 6" wheelbase.

The engine was built for Granton Gasworks and is preserved in Fife.

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/36/582/

Jeremy, this might be a good start. Is ther much detail on the drawing, valve gear shape etc?... 

 

I'm assuming the 14 and 16s are very similar and am trying to figure out what differnces there are on the Hattons' model.

Edited February 4, 2018 by High Level Kits

[Osgood]

The Grantown engine looks very similar - if not identical - to the Parts Book loco.

[JeremyC]

Hi.

It's an actual Barclay G/A drawing at 1 1/2" to the foot scale [so its quite a large drawing] and shows the outline of the valve gear, brake gear etc. I obtained it from Barclays themselves in about 1972 [along with 2 other drawings] and they charged me the grand sum of £1.50 for the 3 including postage!

 

I've tried photographing the drawing so you might be able to determine if it contains the details you need. [the photo has been resized by about 50%, on the original photo I can read dimensions etc].

Edited February 4, 2018 by JeremyC

[High Level Kits]

Thanks again Jeremy. I've zoomed in and it looks like you can see enough detail to model the valvegear. I can always suppliment the info with photos from engines that held on local preserved railways.

 

At this point, I've got to get the wheel problem sorted.

[ian@stenochs]

Hi Chris,

 

At the moment I have a request lodged with Glasgow University re Barclay drawings.

 

In have had an acknowledgement that has stated it could take up to 20 working days to answer my enquiry.

 

Gordon A

Hi,

 

I have been to Glasgow to inspect the drawings on a number of occasions. I can tell you that the experience can be very rewarding but it can also be extremely frustrating!

 

There is a catalogue giving details of works numbers and basic info, ie 0-4-0t etc. There is usually a list of drawings available for each loco but these are only very sketchily detailed and quite often don’t give you a real idea of what there is to see. What you have to remember with Barclays is that they built a lot of ‘standard’ locos which shared dimensions and common components but individual locos may have been altered to suit the purchaser. You frequently find that there is a cross reference to a previous build for a GA or detail drawing so it helps if you have researched your prototype before you go and know which locos were similar.

 

When you request a drawing you get the set for the loco. These come as flat drawings in a plastic folder and some are very big and some are fragile too. It takes time to go through the stack and often you find things that have nothing to do with the particular loco but the archivist is very pleased if you find something out of place and you can help them put it with the correct batch. The Archivists are mostly young ladies and have only a sketchy knowledge of locomotive engineering so don’t expect them to recognise a cross head or clack valve unless it is written on the drawing!

 

My last visit was to look for details of a loco in preservation which needed new parts made and we wanted the original drawing rather than try to copy the well worn original part. It took a whole day and I never found the drawing needed. However I did find other drawings of interest which I was permitted to take a digital photo of.

 

If you do go it is best to request something to see beforehand and it will be ready for you to view. I always go in the morning and have always asked for additional drawings depending on what I found in my first selection. They are usually happy to help but you need to let them have time to locate the drawings. I go for lunch and return after about an hour and a half. There is an excellent Glasgow Pub, the Three Judges, at the cross roads at the bottom of Byers Road, about 5 minutes walk with 8 real ales on handpull. It’s very handy for the subway, Kelvin Hall station, if you want back into the city centre.

 

Ian.

[davknigh]

Chris,

 

Tyres for the Barclays should be no problem from Gibson’s, would getting someone to 3D print the centres be an option? I’m not sure if the material has enough *give* for pressing on the axles.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[High Level Kits]

Chris,

 

Tyres for the Barclays should be no problem from Gibson’s, would getting someone to 3D print the centres be an option? I’m not sure if the material has enough *give* for pressing on the axles.

 

Cheers,

 

David

To be honest David I don't know, nor do I know if these materials will stay stable over any length of time.

[Ruston]

Anyone got any decent drawings of either the 14 or 16 inch Barclays that Hattons are doing.

I can't help with drawings but maybe you could nip over to The Bowes Railway, at Gateshead, with a tape measure? They have a 14-inch Barclay there. http://bowesrailway.uk/personnel/wst/

[Signaller69]

I appreciate such a kit chassis would probably be aimed primarily at EM/P4 modellers but I noticed that Markits/Romford produce some Barclay specific RP25 wheels in 3'1.5" / 3'3" / 3'6" sizes with 7, 10 or 13 spokes as appropriate which may be handy if wanting automatic gauging and quartering. Not cheap though it has to be said, and I have no idea if they would be applicable to the subjects under discussion.

[High Level Kits]

I appreciate such a kit chassis would probably be aimed primarily at EM/P4 modellers but I noticed that Markits/Romford produce some Barclay specific RP25 wheels in 3'1.5" / 3'3" / 3'6" sizes with 7, 10 or 13 spokes as appropriate which may be handy if wanting automatic gauging and quartering. Not cheap though it has to be said, and I have no idea if they would be applicable to the subjects under discussion.

I had a quick look at these and I'm not sure they have the same thick section spoke we're after. I may have been looking at the wrong one though...

[Porcy Mane]

I can't help with drawings but maybe you could nip over to The Bowes Railway, at Gateshead, with a tape measure? They have a 14-inch Barclay there. http://bowesrailway.uk/personnel/wst/They have two

 

Two. AB-2274/49 as well as 2361/54. I think 2274 is not long out of certificate and ready for overhaul.

 

The big conundrum for me is the wheelbase. Will all of Hattons Barclay's be using a 24mm wheelbase? Studying their EP photos the 16" frames appear to be approx 2mm longer but the additional length appears to be in between the front axle centre line and front buffer plank. Would be nice to think I'm wrong with the 2mm difference being between the axles? centre lines.

 

P

[Ruston]

Regarding wheels, what size do the prototype locos in question have?

 

I have the Mercian Models 4mm kit for the post-1921 style Barclay 16-inch 0-4-0ST and in the instructions it says they had a 3ft. 5in. wheel but the same kit in 7mm uses a 3ft. 7in. wheel from Slaters. Alan Gibson do a 3ft. 8in. Barclay wheel in 4mm  and I went for the Gibson wheels as they look much better than the Markits wheels in every way - the appearance of the spokes, the plain steel tyres (as opposed to the shiny chrome of the Markits) and the fact that they are narrower overall, but which size is correct I have no idea but they look alright to me.

 

The 4mm version on Gibson 3ft. 8in. wheels

 

The 7mm version on Slaters 3ft. 7in. wheels.

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by Ruston

[High Level Kits]

The Gibson 3' 8'' was made by Alan Gibson specially for my Barclay 0-6-0 when I first brought it out, and it really looks the part.

 

I could use this for the larger wheeled versions, but it would be a stretch for the 3'5'' ones. Part of the problem is that I can't have situation where customers are shelling out money and investing their time only to end up with something that looks less prototypical than the RTR chassis does... and they've set the bar pretty high there.

[Down_Under]

With Hatton's confirming that they are only doing the 6' WB - (thanks Porcy for asking) - does that open the possibility for High Level to produce some WB variations? e.g. 7' WB? that is assuming there are not too many above WB changes also?

 

J