Scratch-built Wagon Bodies

[justin1985]

Amongst the boxes of parts and bits and pieces that came with Bill Blackburn's Long Melford layout I've found quite a few bodies of scratchbuilt wagons, many of which seem to be fish vans or related. They're beautifully built and I'd love to get roofs on them, chassis under them, and get them painted. 

 

However, not too sure about the identity of the exact types in order to match them to chassis and finish them. Some have got notes written on them, and others have a "PL xx" code written on which seems (but not always) to match the plates in the original Tatlow LNER wagons book. 

 

Any help with identifying them would be much appreciated! Pictures and some guesses based on browsing the Tatlow books below:

 

 

Left to right

Vented van - 9' wheelbase? Tatlow plate 96 - LNER refrigerator van. Based on GN design?

Banana van - 9' wheelbase? Tatlow plate 97

"White Insulfish" written on bottom - 12' wheelbase with vacuum brake? Has PL83 written on it, but definitely doesn't match plate 83 of Tatlow

 

 

Left to right

North Eastern Road Van? Appears to be based on Poole Farish model, but split down the middle and narrowed or widened?

Vented van - "PL94" = 1894 GNR refrigerator van, 10'6 wheelbase, needs ladders and upper footboards, roof hatch?

 

 

Left to right

"White black straps" written on bottom. 10' wb? "PL95" = GN ventilated refrigerator van, needs ladders etc?

LNER standard 10 ton fish van, wb 12'?

 

These two vans seem to be built from the John Grey kit, which I could only find references to as an "LNER fish van". It definitely looks pre-grouping though, and one has been fitted with a plastic PECO 9' wb chassis and painted and lettered as GN. From a casual flick through the newer Tatlow book, however, it looks like a GC 10 ton 18', 10' wheelbase fish van?

 

 

Any corrections, confirmations, or suggestions (especially re: chassis) would be much appreciated!

 

Justin

 

[Atso]

Hi Justin,

 

The first two wagons look more like LNER banana vans to me due to the style of end vents. The Insul Fish van is plate 93 (not 83) in LNER wagons and not build until after nationalisation. The association offers 9' (2-371), 10' (2-372) and 12' (2-373) LNER wagon chassis etches but these are designed to fit the Parkwood (or similar) bodies so may need to be shortened slightly for a true 2mm scale van. There is also a 10' WB chassis that would appear to be to true 2mm scale (2-385).

 

There are drawings for the NER bogie van in F.J.Roche's book 'Historic Wagon Drawings in 4mm Scale'. Interestingly, quite a few (if not all) of Farish's early wagons appear in this book and I wonder if this was the reference for these. Roche's drawings aren't always accurate so be warned. There may been better references in Tatlow's North Eastern Area wagon book but I'm too poor to be able to afford that at the moment.

 

Plate 94 of Tatlows LNER Wagons book shows the GNR refrigerator van with horizontal planking and only two hinges per door. I'm not sure what chassis would be suitable I'm afraid, for some converted Farish GNR fish vans, I'm simply using the association LNER 10' wheelbase chassis and ignoring the differences (along with the altered dimensions to fit the old Farish chassis). 

 

Plates 95 and 96 show the GNR and LNER refrigerator vans which the fifth van pictured may represent. The fish van could be a 10' or 12' wheelbase version, how long is it?

 

Finally, the etched fish vans are the GCR type and happily still available from BH Enterprises (when he gets some back in stock!) along with a GNR brake van, LNER fruit van, NER brake van and perishables van. All have been designed to fit the Peco 10' WB chassis but the association's chassis can be substituted - sorry I don't know which would be correct for the fish van though.

 

I would suggest posting these lovely scratch builds over on the LNER forum and asking there. Alternatively PM GRKing or JWealleans on here who, while being 4mm scale modellers, seem to be able to recall a lot of historic information from memory!

 

Hope this is of some use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jwealleans]

...while being 4mm scale modellers, seem to be able to recall a lot of historic information from memory!

Do 4mm modellers have a history of memory problems, then, Steve?

 

I think you're right about the LNER ventilated van. This is a 4mm one I built last year:

 

 

The banana van (I have some etches but haven't built it)is very similar so you may well be right.

 

The van with the recessed doors is the very late LNER/BR fish van with the 12' wheelbase which Parkside do in 4mm. Off the top of my head I can't recall whether the recessed door was a BR rebuild feature.

 

The G7 Road van is very distinctive and you've identified it exactly.

 

 

The GN refrigerated van was available from D & S in 4mm for a long time. We use a few on Grantham.

 

 

I think you're right about the LNER short fish van as well. Finally, I think you're spot on about the two brass bodies - looking through the pictures without reading your text, my first thought was the GC design. The GN one I'm familiar with has different panelling and no outside framing.

 

 

GC van, from a D & S kit.

 

 

The GN one, to the right, is quite different.

 

Steve can give you better guidance than me on what chassis are available for these - he's done some of these himself, haven't you, Steve?

Edited May 4, 2018 by jwealleans

[Atso]

Do 4mm modellers have a history of memory problems, then, Steve?

 

Not that I'm aware of, but a certain N gauge modeller might be having some problems constructing sentences and the English language in general!   

 

Some lovely wagons there Mr Wealleans, I'm looking forward to seeing them running on Grantham at Ally Pally!

 

I have built some of the 2mm Association's chassis kits but I think there are those more experienced than I who can comment further on these. I'm not aware of a GNR chassis in the range, however I think that Copenhagen Fields has several GNR vans so there must be a kit for the chassis somewhere.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Atso

[jwealleans]

The G7 wasn't for me, Steve, you'd have to travel to Oxfordshire to see that. I think most or all of the others will be there, though, standing in for the usual stock.

Edited February 2, 2018 by jwealleans

[Chris Higgs]

Not that I'm aware of, but a certain N gauge modeller might be having some problems constructing sentences and the English language in general!   

 

Some lovely wagons there Mr Wealleans, I'm looking forward to seeing them running on Grantham at Ally Pally!

 

I have built some of the 2mm Association's chassis kits but I think there are those more experienced than I who can comment further on these. I'm not aware of a GNR chassis in the range, however I think that Copenhagen Fields has several GNR vans so there must be a kit for the chassis somewhere.

 

2-385 (10')  and 2-609 (9') are the LNER style fitted underframes which are 2mm scale. Or you can build Bill's version of the 10' which is 2-333.  Later GNR fitted underframes were pretty similar to these although the V hangers were not always the same shape, so consult photos. Earlier ones were different.

 

There is no 2mm version of the 12' needed for the fish van, 2-373 is to 1:148 scale.

 

Chris

[richbrummitt]

I never worked out what chassis was closest to the real GC fish cans either. I have one in exactly the same start as that in the foreground of your picture. It's been in that state for a long time.

[Guy Rixon]

I built one of these years back, when shop 2 had fewer products.

I used an LNER 10' w/b VB chassis, but altered the brake gear as seen and replaced the solebars with something rather dreadful, probably out of a Peco kit. The basic  arrangement is abut right, I think, except that it should only have one V-hanger each side; I don't know why I left it with two.

 

I think nowadays there's an LMS 10' VB chassis that achieves this more easily and possibly provides solebars.