Layout and model photography - In-camera focus stacking.

[Dunsignalling]

I have recently come across references to focus stacking having become available as an in-camera facility on certain "Compact System Cameras". 

 

So far, I have identified it in the specifications of the Olympus OMD E-M1 MkII, Panasonic Lumix GH4, GH5 and G9 models. There may well be others, but my interest was piqued as I have been considering replacing my DSLR with a G9.

 

Focus stacking can be used to substantial effect in reducing/eradicating depth-of-field issues in model photography and has been possible by combining multiple images in post-processing out of the camera for some time.

 

Has anybody got experience of what these (or other) cameras can do without resort to the computer?

 

John   

Edited February 2, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Phil47gwr]

It can be done in software irrespective of the (digital) camera used. I use Linux and the Hugin program, though I use it mostly for panorama stitching, has a plug-in that does this. There are several Windows programs that will do it too.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Phil47gwr

[Dunsignalling]

It can be done in software irrespective of the (digital) camera used. I use Linux and the Hugin program, though I use it mostly for panorama stitching, has a plug-in that does this. There are several Windows programs that will do it too.

Thanks, I am already aware of what can be done in post-processing, but I'm neither a computer buff nor really inclined towards digital "darkroom" work and these cameras will apparently combine eight images straight off.

 

I am interested to know what sort of job the camera can make of it on its own, so am after some impressions from anyone who has used them for model photography.

 

John

Edited February 2, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[JeffP]

Interesting.

 

I have Lumix TZ40, and it's ability to photograph backlit subjects and produce an image almost perfectly exposed over all it's parts, never fails to impress me. My Nikon D300 can't do the same.

 

I'd be interested in this too, but what are the cahnces of someone having one of the above cameras being a) into railway modelling, and b) on here?

[Dunsignalling]

Interesting.

 

I have Lumix TZ40, and it's ability to photograph backlit subjects and produce an image almost perfectly exposed over all it's parts, never fails to impress me. My Nikon D300 can't do the same.

 

I'd be interested in this too, but what are the cahnces of someone having one of the above cameras being a) into railway modelling, and b) on here?

Evidently not enough to elicit an instant response, but hopefully someone who has will spot the thread in the next week or two.

 

I have a Nikon D5000 (same sensor as the 300) and a Lumix LX100. The SLR will handle back-lighting as well as the compact but it does need to be switched from my default setting of matrix metering onto spot metering to be dependable at it. 

 

John

Edited February 2, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[JeffP]

Mine spends most of it's time on spot, but still can't match the Lumix. That one just flashes up a window in the rear screen, "Backilit image, multiple shots will be taken, hold camera steady", then fires off anything from two to seven shots and somehow stitches them so that all parts are exposed. Brilliant stuff. I have some superb shots of the wife having a glass of wine with a bright background, her face is as well exposed as the background. It even fires a fill flash when it thinks necessary.

 

Modern cameras make stuff so easy, all you need think about really is correct framing.

[Dunsignalling]

 

Modern cameras make stuff so easy, all you need think about really is correct framing.

 

Yes, I must admit that very little of my "editing" goes much beyond cropping, a touch of straightening and tweaking the contrast a bit.

 

John

Edited April 27, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Kylestrome]

Even with "in camera focus stacking" you still need extra software to render the stack as one picture. I have an Olympus OM-D EM-10 Mk II which has the focus bracketing feature, and I use Helicon Focus to combine the resulting images.

 

David

 

Edit: Since writing the above I realise that the EM-1 Mk II can do it all in camera, but only as a JPEG .

Edited February 22, 2020 by Kylestrome

[Redkiterail]

GX80 Uses a 4K model to focus stack inside the camera into one picture

Edited February 2, 2018 by Redkiterail

[Phil47gwr]

I can see why you want such a feature on a camera. I'm going to the Stafford Railway Circle show tomorrow at Stafford Showground (plug) and I'll take a few dozen pictures of the layouts, most of which will be of such narrow focus that they'll be rubbish.

[ColinK]

IIRC focus stacking was covered on a BRM DVD not that long ago.

[Dave John]

Reading with interest. I have tried focus stacking and so far I have failed. So keep discussing it, I might find out what I'm doing wrong ....

Edited February 4, 2018 by Dave John

[PenrithBeacon]

Yes, I must admit that very little of my "editing" goes much beyond cropping, a tough of straightening and tweaking the contrast a bit.

 

John

Which is pretty much what you might do in a dark room.

[Dunsignalling]

Which is pretty much what you might do in a dark room.

True, but barely scratching the surface of what can be done in digital processing. 

 

John

Edited February 4, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Tony Teague]

These two images were taken using my Olympus E-M1 set up for focus stacking.

 

[taken on thegreenhowards 'Gresley Junction' layout]

 

It is not true that post processing is then required, because the camera saves all 8 RAW files AND the merged .jpg file, so if you don't want to do any processing, you don't need to.

 

[from my own workbench - more on my layout thread below]

 

Conversely, you have the files available should you want to re-process outside of the camera; as yet, I have no idea if separate processing would give me a better result, because I have only just got this feature working, but I think the in-camera results are pretty reasonable.

 

These images have had a small amount of post-processing, sharpening, cropping etc but nothing major.

 

The image stacking expert is, of course, Andy York who would certainly be able to throw far more light on the subject.

 

Tony

Edited to indicate image locations.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Tony Teague

[Dunsignalling]

Thanks, Tony. You have confirmed what I had hoped for but wasn't certain of from reading the technical specifications.

 

Do you set the focussing points or just the nearest/furthest and let the camera get on with it?

 

Looks like I may have some serious saving to do..........

 

John

Edited February 4, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Tony Teague]

Thanks, Tony. You have confirmed what I had hoped for but wasn't certain of from reading the technical specifications.

 

Do you set the focussing points or just the nearest/furthest and let the camera get on with it?

 

Looks like I may have some serious saving to do..........

 

John

John

 

Neither really, you just set up the shot - this camera has a tiltable LED screen on the back - and press the trigger; the camera then takes the series of 8 shots before merging them together; so you get 8 RAW files and one .jpg at the end.

 

Tony

[Dunsignalling]

John

 

Neither really, you just set up the shot - this camera has a tiltable LED screen on the back - and press the trigger; the camera then takes the series of 8 shots before merging them together; so you get 8 RAW files and one .jpg at the end.

 

Tony

Tony,

 

Thanks very much for the info, I'll start bending the ears of the guys at my local LCE and find out how much/little my modest Nikon outfit is worth as a trade-in........

 

Regards

 

John

[Oldddudders]

Tony,

 

Thanks very much for the info, I'll start bending the ears of the guys at my local LCE and find out how much/little my modest Nikon outfit is worth as a trade-in........

 

Regards

 

John

 

Manage your expectations, John. Nikon and Canon both have substantial numbers of really good DSLRs two or three models old still awaiting discounted sale new. In such a market older pre-owned models don't move very quickly and dealers may not be mad keen to offer what you and I know the camera is still worth relative to its capabilities. 

[Dunsignalling]

Manage your expectations, John. Nikon and Canon both have substantial numbers of really good DSLRs two or three models old still awaiting discounted sale new. In such a market older pre-owned models don't move very quickly and dealers may not be mad keen to offer what you and I know the camera is still worth relative to its capabilities. 

Mine's only a lower mid-range/upper entry-level model anyway though It's quite capable. It's been used for nearly all the pics on the Bournemouth Central thread. 

 

It is seven years old, so I'm not expecting much for the body - seeing what they are fetching s/h via retailers, I'll count myself lucky if I get an offer in three figures. With the two lenses (neither of which are Nikon "kit" lenses!), second battery, remote control, etc., I'm reckoning on something between £350 and £450 all told towards what I think I'm leaning towards, which is a little over £2k, less any cashbacks. 

 

I could try to sell it privately but it might only fetch an extra £100 or so and  I'm not convinced it's worth the bother.

 

Due to other expected commitments, I probably won't move for a month or three, anyway. However, there's no point amassing a house-full of camera gear that I'm no longer using. My old Pentax 35mm gear fulfils that function............

 

John

Edited February 4, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Phil47gwr]

Okay, this is not a total solution but there is an app called GSimpleRelease which will enable you to do focus stacking with your Lumix cameras. It claims to work with the LX100 (which I think you already have) and the web site is here...

 

https://www.minaxsoft.com/products/gsimplerelease/

 

I doubt it would be very useful "in the field" but if you are just concerned with photographing static subjects it might save you a few bob.

 

Edit: the more I read about it the less useful it looks

Edited February 4, 2018 by Phil47gwr

[chriswright03]

If you look here you will see Andy has covered stacking in a tutorial.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/84168-whats-involved-with-processing-an-image-for-the-magazine/

[Tony Teague]

Given that Olympus have introduced two upgrades since the model I have (which is only about 18 months old, it may be possible to find 2nd hand versions of the Mk.1 available; providing the firmware is updated to the latest version, this model supports focus stacking.

I would just say, that there is a lot of hype around about mirrorless 4/3rds cameras such as this replacing DSLR's and whilst this might be a very long term outcome, I can categorically say that for sheer image quality my (albeit fairly top-end) Canon DSLR beats the Olympus hands down - it just doesn't do focus stacking, and its also a lot heavier.

So my point is, there is a need to be clear about what you want the camera for before you trade what you already have.

 

Tony

[Kylestrome]

Do you set the focussing points or just the nearest/furthest and let the camera get on with it?

 

The Olympus focus stacking works by setting the closest focusing point (easy enough to do on the touch screen viewfinder) and then specifying how many frames (up to 99) are to be taken and the differential (variable) between subsequent focus settings. A bit of trial and error is necessary to start with to get the ideal result. The camera will carry on taking pictures until the lens reaches infinity. In practice, I have found that around 10 frames are sufficient with the focus differential set so that the camera stops shooting when the lens focus point has reached the backscene.

 

My EM-10 MkII does not have the ability to combine shots in-camera but then, it was a lot cheaper than the EM-1.

 

David

Edited February 4, 2018 by Kylestrome

[lyneux]

Has anyone tried using the MagicLantern firmware with Canon SLRs to aid with automatic capture of the stacked shots? It looks pretty good.

 

Guy