Mark 1’s withdrawn in the 1960’s

[balders]

9 hours ago, giz said:

I believe there is a BFK at Chasewater running with their dmu centre car set. 

There are a few but not many! Vintage Carriage Trust website has a good search engine with some good parameters. KWVR, GCR and Mid Hants have one apiece and there are a couple of others unserviceable elsewhere. 

 

Regards 

 

Guy

[stovepipe]

On 02/11/2020 at 11:23, russ p said:

Just to throw a spanner in the works , when were the last pre nationalisation design day coaches withdrawn? 

With all those mk1s being withdrawn so early how did so many survey the late 60s some portholes and Hawksworths actually got into blue and grey 

 

The last pre-nationalisation design passenger carrying (standard gauge!) day coaches (i.e. not catering coaches), were from the small number that were painted blue and grey.

 

Among these were 8 LMS BSKs, 2 SKs, an SO and CK, a Thompson BSK that was used in the York - Inverness car sleeper, and 3 GWR SKs that were used in Devon and Cornwall for a period.

 

All had gone by the end of 1971 when the first RCTS coaching stock book was published, leaving only the LNER design Restaurant vehicles, and the last of the LNER origin sleepers, and the 12-wheel 1st and standard 2nd class LMS sleepers, which lasted in service a little longer as mainly excursion stock or spare additional stock for Euston - West Highland services.

[stovepipe]

I should say the research on the Blue and Grey pre-Nat coaches is from Robert Carroll's BRCS group, building on previous work of many others.

[steam69]

On 02/11/2020 at 11:59, Joseph_Pestell said:

The surviving Portholes and Hawksworths were probably all built post 1948. Last year for LMS built coaches seems to be 1967 with the exception of just one vehicle in 1976 (Jenkinson/Essery). I can't help wondering if that is a typo. Or perhaps a coach that got abandoned somewhere and forgotten about?

I would imagine that the sole remaining LMS vehicle could be an inspection coach, (I seem to remember one of these turned up on the SVR around that time before it went to Scotland).

 

Richard

[stovepipe]

On 02/11/2020 at 08:08, Philou said:

Hello chums,

 

I'm reviving this thread as I have a question regarding Mk1s converted into departmental stock.

 

As a recent birthday gift I was given three (yes 3) ballast cleaner staff coaches from Hornby (R40006-8) and I mused the following questions:

 

How many ballast cleaner staff coaches does a layout need?

 

Where would these coaches have been used in the UK?

 

What would have been a 'normal' consist? and;

 

What would have hauled the consist (and in what colours)?

 

I had never considered having departmental stock, though some of the stock available RTR looks very good. I do have a rake of auto-ballasters but these are probably too modern for the stock.

 

I'm period agnostic as my collection waiting for 'the' layout could cover from pre-1940 to 2019 though all rakes I'm trying to keep as correct as possible.

 

Any ideas?

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

 

I see no-one has answered your query, which is probably because no-one knows! Those interested in coaching stock and formations are few, and those in departmental stock is even fewer. I do know there are a couple of websites which specialise in these things, but you may have to sign up. If you search the runinng number of your coaches (with prefix) you should find them easily enough.

[giz]

1 hour ago, balders said:

There are a few but not many! Vintage Carriage Trust website has a good search engine with some good parameters. KWVR, GCR and Mid Hants have one apiece and there are a couple of others unserviceable elsewhere. 

 

Regards 

 

Guy

There were only 28 Mk1 BFKs built so the survival rate seems quite good.

[Dave47549]

.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Dave47549
Removed pointless guff

[Philou]

@stovepipe Thanks for taking the time to answer my query - at least I can assume it's not a terribly popular model!

 

I did look on the t'intertubes and I found Paul Bartlett's photos of the coaches, but not as a complete train. I doubt if there any videos about as they pre-date digital cameras. I know where they came from and I might send them back (perhaps keep one), and swop for something else.

 

I know that newbyford(?) does the modern yellow stock - so I'll try and track him down.

 

Cheers and thanks anyway,

 

Philip

[balders]

Only two were converted to departmentals.

 

14008 (17008 in the renumber sequence) from lot 30382 became 977317 in 1985. Scrapped Vic Berry 1989. 

 

14011 from the same lot became 975750 after withdrawal 11/77 scrapped Doncaster Hexthorpe in  2004. 

 

17021 (14021) was allocated 977592 but never carried. This still exists. 

 

Regards

 

Guy

[ChrisH-UK]

On 02/11/2020 at 03:08, Philou said:

 

How many ballast cleaner staff coaches does a layout need?

 

Where would these coaches have been used in the UK?

 

 

How many ballast cleaners does your layout have? According to the 1990 departmental coaching stock books two out of the three coaches was allocated to a different ballast cleaner on the Eastern Region, the third is not listed.

[Joseph_Pestell]

11 hours ago, steam69 said:

I would imagine that the sole remaining LMS vehicle could be an inspection coach, (I seem to remember one of these turned up on the SVR around that time before it went to Scotland).

 

Richard

 

No, I was not taking Inspection Vehicles into account as they are not passenger service vehicles as the OP was asking for.

[Rivercider]

On 02/11/2020 at 08:08, Philou said:

Hello chums,

 

I'm reviving this thread as I have a question regarding Mk1s converted into departmental stock.

 

As a recent birthday gift I was given three (yes 3) ballast cleaner staff coaches from Hornby (R40006-8) and I mused the following questions:

 

How many ballast cleaner staff coaches does a layout need?

 

Where would these coaches have been used in the UK?

 

What would have been a 'normal' consist? and;

 

What would have hauled the consist (and in what colours)?

 

I had never considered having departmental stock, though some of the stock available RTR looks very good. I do have a rake of auto-ballasters but these are probably too modern for the stock.

 

I'm period agnostic as my collection waiting for 'the' layout could cover from pre-1940 to 2019 though all rakes I'm trying to keep as correct as possible.

 

Any ideas?

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

I'm no expert, but I think the mess coaches generally followed the ballast cleaner they were allocated to. I don't think there would be many engineering sites other than a major project where two ballast cleaners would operate together.  There might be locations like a large Permanent Way yards where ballast cleaners and other on-track plant would congregate, Bristol East Depot was one such yard. Other location where on-track plant was maintained would see the coaches appear more regularly, like at Exmouth Junction in Exeter.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s ballast cleaners with associated mess coaches and tool vans could be seen on normal wagon load freight services during the week as they moved around ready for the next weekend work programme, they would generally be formed behind the loco.

 

cheers

 

 

[Rivercider]

6 hours ago, Rivercider said:

I'm no expert, but I think the mess coaches generally followed the ballast cleaner they were allocated to. I don't think there would be many engineering sites other than a major project where two ballast cleaners would operate together.  There might be locations like a large Permanent Way yards where ballast cleaners and other on-track plant would congregate, Bristol East Depot was one such yard. Other location where on-track plant was maintained would see the coaches appear more regularly, like at Exmouth Junction in Exeter.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s ballast cleaners with associated mess coaches and tool vans could be seen on normal wagon load freight services during the week as they moved around ready for the next weekend work programme, they would generally be formed behind the loco.

 

cheers

 

 

Replying to myself here, I have found a photo with on-track plant marshalled in a normal freight train.

 

31216 approaches Wakefield Kirkgate with a freight service including a twin-jib crane(?) and a ballast cleaner each with associated mess coach. 18/9/81

 

cheers

[stewartingram]

Weren't kitchen/catering cars withdrawn very early on?