Hornby 72xx versions so far released.

[SimonMW]

OK, so a question to those of you with this 72xx...

 

I've now been running it for about 60 minutes. Is it just me, or is this loco too slow? Flat out it's doing 165 revolutions per minute, at 4'7" wheels that's about 30mph. Seems slow to me? Both DC and DCC running, same.  

[PM47079]

Same as mine then. I thought mine was a little slower than it should be. I presume that is how it has been set up, I think my 42xx and 52xx are a bit more lively

[SimonMW]

Same as mine then. I thought mine was a little slower than it should be. I presume that is how it has been set up, I think my 42xx and 52xx are a bit more lively

The RCTS entry for the 72xx class says they were used for medium- and long-distance coal trains, predominantly stationed in South Wales, and regularly employed on main line coal trains from South Wales to London and Exeter up to WW2, after which point the large number of 2-8-0 tender engines available rendered this use unnecessary. At this point they also ended up on iron ore / steel industry work. They were tried for banking duties on the Lickey incline but that didn't work due to platform clearance issues. 

Whilst I am sure they could do more than 30mph, perhaps on non-braked coal trains that was about normal... someone with better knowledge may jump in.

[7TunnelShunter]

The RCTS entry for the 72xx class says they were used for medium- and long-distance coal trains, predominantly stationed in South Wales, and regularly employed on main line coal trains from South Wales to London and Exeter up to WW2, after which point the large number of 2-8-0 tender engines available rendered this use unnecessary. At this point they also ended up on iron ore / steel industry work. They were tried for banking duties on the Lickey incline but that didn't work due to platform clearance issues. 

Whilst I am sure they could do more than 30mph, perhaps on non-braked coal trains that was about normal... someone with better knowledge may jump in.

 

Unfitted freight and mineral trains would be restricted to 25mph maximum - due to the limited brake power available. However, I am sure a light engine would have been capable of higher speeds, after all they would have steam and/or vacuum brakes on the engine.

[The Stationmaster]

Unfitted freight and mineral trains would be restricted to 25mph maximum - due to the limited brake power available. However, I am sure a light engine would have been capable of higher speeds, after all they would have steam and/or vacuum brakes on the engine.

 

Wrong speed for the steam age I'm afraid.  The limit for unfitted freights was still 45mph as late as 1972 although what they actually achieved was frequently a lot less of course.

[SimonMW]

Wrong speed for the steam age I'm afraid. The limit for unfitted freights was still 45mph as late as 1972 although what they actually achieved was frequently a lot less of course.

So 30mph is definitely a bit slow then. Seems odd. I've got a new 42xx, will be interesting to see if that one is similar.

[81C]

OK, so a question to those of you with this 72xx...

 

I've now been running it for about 60 minutes. Is it just me, or is this loco too slow? Flat out it's doing 165 revolutions per minute, at 4'7" wheels that's about 30mph. Seems slow to me? Both DC and DCC running, same.  

You could always swop it for a Hornby Smokey Joe it's top speed can match warp factor 9 of the Starship Enterprise.

[SimonMW]

You could always swop it for a Hornby Smokey Joe it's top speed can match warp factor 9 of the Starship Enterprise.

Hmmm. I know I stretch the boundaries of prototypicality with my railway, but I think that may push the envelope a leeeetle too far! 

[SDJR7F88]

Anyone fitted DCC Sound to one of these? Tempted to have a go, but was wonder how much space there is inside.

I've seen people mention about fitting a micro chip and speaker in the boiler smoke box, which would be perfect for me. 

I'm currently looking at an 8pin ESU LokSound V4.0 Micro Decoder and Speaker and was wondering if that would fit? 

 

[SimonMW]

 

Anyone fitted DCC Sound to one of these? Tempted to have a go, but was wonder how much space there is inside.

I've seen people mention about fitting a micro chip and speaker in the boiler smoke box, which would be perfect for me.

I'm currently looking at an 8pin ESU LokSound V4.0 Micro Decoder and Speaker and was wondering if that would fit?

There is quite a bit of room in the smokebox, but it's a little tight due to clearance from socket to bodywork. If you're not careful you can end up pushing the silly plastic bracket that the socket is mounted on onto the flywheel. I'll try and take some pics over the weekend.

[John Tomlinson]

OK, so a question to those of you with this 72xx...

 

I've now been running it for about 60 minutes. Is it just me, or is this loco too slow? Flat out it's doing 165 revolutions per minute, at 4'7" wheels that's about 30mph. Seems slow to me? Both DC and DCC running, same.  

 

Yep, me too. I've been wondering if it is as it should be, looks like this is how it is geared.

 

John.

[tomparryharry]

That looks good to me. The upper limit should be 45 mph for unbraked, 4 wheel stock. Mike (Statiomaster) has said as such. I'm more inclined to think 25-30mph is the norm.  The old saying is "your ability to stop is your right to speed".

 

It does depend on the viewer, but I prefer seeing scale speed, train length & perception. The 72xx can deliver that in spades. Something like 80 ten tonners? Oh yes! Even 50 -on with a 56xx looks good to me. You wouldn't see great speed though, unless it's 'brown underpants' time....

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[7007GreatWestern]

In his book "Great Western Eight Coupled Heavy Freight Locos" former Western Region Manager David Maidment recounts an experience he had aboard 42xx in 1962. Strictly speaking this forum is concerned with the 72xx, but given that the only difference between the 42xx and 72xx is the enlarged bunker we can consider a run on a 42xx as a good guide. Returning to Mr. Maidment and 1962. As a Western Region Management trainee he was booked to ride aboard 4279 with a Footplate Inspector and a Llanelli 'Passed' Fireman who was being examined, presumably to be 'made up' to Driver. As fate would have it the Llanelli fireman didn't turn up so Mr. Maidment got to spend the day driving a 42xx under the tutelage of a Footplate Inspector no less. Lucky man!

 

Of interest to this discussion is their return journey form Margam comprising fifty empty cattle wagon which were vacuum fitted. "I relaxed as the sun glowed red in the sky ahead of us and we chirruped away, cantering along at around 50– 55mph. The old engine shook and rattled and the cab controls did a war dance, but the engine rode well enough and I leaned out of the cab side space feeling very content. I watched, mesmerised, as the front end of the running plate jigged around, seemingly independent of the rest of the locomotive, and bade farewell to the inspector as we parked 4279 under the coal tower, ready for it to be put away by the shed staff."

 

So, on the rare occasions the eight coupled tanks were let loose on something vacuum fitted they were capable of running into the high fifties at the very least. That being said I'm very pleased indeed with the running qualities of my three Hornby eight coupled tanks - they run quieter and smoother than ANY other RTR Great Western Tank model that I own.

 

Mr. Maidment's book is highly recommended to anyone with an interest in the GWR freight scene. I have no connection the Author or anyone else connected with the book.

 

 

 

 

 

Maidment, David. The Great Western Eight Coupled Heavy Freight Locomotives (Kindle Locations 1401-1402). Pen and Sword. Kindle Edition. 

[tomparryharry]

 

In his book "Great Western Eight Coupled Heavy Freight Locos" former Western Region Manager David Maidment recounts an experience he had aboard 42xx in 1962. Strictly speaking this forum is concerned with the 72xx, but given that the only difference between the 42xx and 72xx is the enlarged bunker we can consider a run on a 42xx as a good guide. Returning to Mr. Maidment and 1962. As a Western Region Management trainee he was booked to ride aboard 4279 with a Footplate Inspector and a Llanelli 'Passed' Fireman who was being examined, presumably to be 'made up' to Driver. As fate would have it the Llanelli fireman didn't turn up so Mr. Maidment got to spend the day driving a 42xx under the tutelage of a Footplate Inspector no less. Lucky man!

 

Of interest to this discussion is their return journey form Margam comprising fifty empty cattle wagon which were vacuum fitted. "I relaxed as the sun glowed red in the sky ahead of us and we chirruped away, cantering along at around 50– 55mph. The old engine shook and rattled and the cab controls did a war dance, but the engine rode well enough and I leaned out of the cab side space feeling very content. I watched, mesmerised, as the front end of the running plate jigged around, seemingly independent of the rest of the locomotive, and bade farewell to the inspector as we parked 4279 under the coal tower, ready for it to be put away by the shed staff."

 

So, on the rare occasions the eight coupled tanks were let loose on something vacuum fitted they were capable of running into the high fifties at the very least. That being said I'm very pleased indeed with the running qualities of my three Hornby eight coupled tanks - they run quieter and smoother than ANY other RTR Great Western Tank model that I own.

 

Mr. Maidment's book is highly recommended to anyone with an interest in the GWR freight scene. I have no connection the Author or anyone else connected with the book.

 

 

 

 

 

Maidment, David. The Great Western Eight Coupled Heavy Freight Locomotives (Kindle Locations 1401-1402). Pen and Sword. Kindle Edition. 

 

That's ok, to a point. If you try that with a non-vacuum fitted train, you might well have had a different experience....

 

There is an unique sensation when you brake, and the train comes in behind, like a giant hand....

 

Ian.

[7007GreatWestern]

That's ok, to a point. If you try that with a non-vacuum fitted train, you might well have had a different experience....

 

There is an unique sensation when you brake, and the train comes in behind, like a giant hand....

 

Ian.

 

Hi Ian,

 

I'm not suggesting the run in David Maidment's book is at all typical. These locos spent the great bulk of their lives attached to long rakes of heavily loaded, unfitted wagons and 50mph hour running would be out of the question! However, SimonMW's question was about the maximum speed of the prototype, not the typical speed.

 

Personally I'm happy with the gearing on the Hornby model. In the trade-off of speed vs torque I'll take torque every time with this particular model and 30 mph suites me fine.

 

Andy.

 

PS. I have no doubt that the sensation of being 'pushed in the rear' by 600 tons+ teetering on the brink of being out of control would be terrifying to us mere mortals!

[The Stationmaster]

Hi Ian,

 

I'm not suggesting the run in David Maidment's book is at all typical. These locos spent the great bulk of their lives attached to long rakes of heavily loaded, unfitted wagons and 50mph hour running would be out of the question! However, SimonMW's question was about the maximum speed of the prototype, not the typical speed.

 

Personally I'm happy with the gearing on the Hornby model. In the trade-off of speed vs torque I'll take torque every time with this particular model and 30 mph suites me fine.

 

Andy.

 

PS. I have no doubt that the sensation of being 'pushed in the rear' by 600 tons+ teetering on the brink of being out of control would be terrifying to us mere mortals!

 

Being pushed by 500 tons feels bad enough (and that was on a 'Warship' on a fully fitted milk train   ).  The problem with any train is stopping it and unfitted trains are more difficult to stop - end of (occasionally literally).  I had a trip up to Cwmbargoed with one of my drivers on one occasion to look at some problems up there and it was 'incline working' coming down the very steep gradient which basically means enough wagon brakes pinned down to hold the train and the loco has to be powered to start it moving, on a falling gradient  - the idea being that the loco and brakevan alone will then have enough brake power to stop the train.  An EE Type 3/Class 37 is a pretty hefty beast with good stopping power and the Incline Instructions require the Driver to keep in full control of the train and that means able to stop it any point on the gradient - which means going slowly.  That is the theory.

 

But coming down from Cwmbargoed with getting on for 1,000 tons of train on a falling gradient of 1 in 40 over the 3 miles to the site of Bedlinog station is where you moved from theory to the real world.  Even with the brakes on every wagon pinned down hard the train would gain momentum and the last thing you'd do is touch the loco brake because the blocks would soon vanish in a fiery cloud of smoke - so let it run.  And it was reckoned that if you passed Bedlinog at under 40 mph you'd stop at the bottom.  That day we were doing exactly 40mph past Bedlinog and we stopped at the bottom - with the brake blocks burning on every wagon on the train, you couldn't see past the first wagon for the smoke.   Just about anyone can make them go, not so easy to know how to stop and when not to use the brake.   Mind you cming down there felt a lot safer than being bashed up the back end by a loaded milk train, they surge as the milk sloshes in the tank cars.

Edited March 1, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[7007GreatWestern]

And to think, prior to 1889 there wasn't even a requirement in law for passenger trains to be 'fitted'!

 

Thanks Mike for that insight into real railway operation. In the case of your Class 37 hauled train at Cwmbargoed you mention the presence of a brakevan. Was there radio comms. between the footplate crew and the brakevan in the diesel era?

 

Andy.

[gwrrob]

Prices are getting ridiculous for this model.  

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/349626/Hornby_R3127_PO_Class_72XX_2_8_2T_7202_in_GWR_Green_Pre_owned_DCC_fitted/StockDetail.aspx?utm_source=preowned&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=R3127

 

   

Edited March 1, 2018 by gwrrob

[ColHut]

It may well be thst the speed of the trin will be limited by the wagons it is pulling. Grease axle boxes will mean much slower speeds.

 

regards

[7007GreatWestern]

Prices are getting ridiculous for this model.  

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/349626/Hornby_R3127_PO_Class_72XX_2_8_2T_7202_in_GWR_Green_Pre_owned_DCC_fitted/StockDetail.aspx?utm_source=preowned&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=R3127

 

   

 

Handy to know a friendly modeller with a surplus 72xx who isn't a rip-off merchant then?

[gwrrob]

Handy to know a friendly modeller with a surplus 72xx who isn't a rip-off merchant then?

 

I don't know whether that deserves an agree, like or clever post.  

[7007GreatWestern]

On the subject of which Rob, when are we likely to see said locomotive  passing through a well know station in the South Hams? Is it at Swindon for Works attention?

[gwrrob]

On the subject of which Rob, when are we likely to see said locomotive  passing through a well know station in the South Hams? Is it at Swindon for Works attention?

 

I'm awaiting new plates and smokebox door handle but it won't be long.

[gwrrob]

Here's my other one, 7200 at Tigley Junction.

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

And to think, prior to 1889 there wasn't even a requirement in law for passenger trains to be 'fitted'!

 

Thanks Mike for that insight into real railway operation. In the case of your Class 37 hauled train at Cwmbargoed you mention the presence of a brakevan. Was there radio comms. between the footplate crew and the brakevan in the diesel era?

 

Andy.

 

No - well not in the sense most folk would call communication.  The only way of communicating was by the engine whistle or handsignals, literally given by hand or by a lamp at night.  One favourite with Goods Guards was a rolled up newspaper which stood out quite well over the length of 40-50 wagons in reasonable daylight.  The other thing a Goods Guard could do was to 'rub the brake' on the brakevan although that had t be done very carefully to avoid parting the train instead of sending the intended message of 'a bit of a pluck' to the Driver.

 

And of course on  steep inclines runaways were far from unknown although fiutted trains tended to be more at risk that unfitted in later years as some Drivers tended to believe the vacuum or air brake might be better at holding a train than handbrakes.