Thinking of building a German layout

[Guest teacupteacup]

Hello

 

I am on an extended sabbatical from building a layout whilst waiting to move into a new house, and my thoughts have wandered away from my usual British outline modelling.

 

I've often admired the railways of Germany and over the years, bought and sold some items of stock in N and HO scales. However I dont have much of a clue about track layouts and train formations.

 

Ideally I'd like to build a small (10ft max) layout depicting an urban station with a small freight facility, set in the late 90's/early 00's. I have a few questions...

 

If the line was electrified, would electric locos handle the freight side or would they be all diesel?

Would an electric loco be seen hauling trains of 5/6 wagons regularly?

Could an urban through route be single track?

 

Not going for 100% accuracy but would like to get the correct feel.

 

TC

[Legend]

In a similar position to you TC, except maybe I'm a decade or two earlier . I really love DB Class 103 Electrics and got as far as buying Fleischmann, Roco and Marklin catalogues. But like yourself I was put off by the lack of knowledge on German systems including signalling . If you model UK railways there are countless books on every imaginable subject/line , lots of periodicals etc , but I never could find a good reference book in English on the German Railway scene. Maybe someone out there knows of one

[Joseph_Pestell]

For the sort of layout you are looking at, if in HO, I would suggest that diesel is more likely than electric. When I last visited Nuremburg (late 90s), there was a secondary terminus there which might fit your needs.

 

In N, 10' might make it possible to model something a bit more complex which might be electrified.

 

Certainly plenty of cases of single track lines through urban areas.

[Ian Morgan]

You might consider joining the German Railway Society. They have produced a couple of publications describing german signalling over the years.They also put on an exhibition in Didcot, GlobalRail 2018 on Sunday 29th April, that features a number of german layouts and there will be plenty of knowledgeable people there that you could talk to.

 

Disclaimer: I am just a member of GRS.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Agree about GRS membership.

 

There are several threads on here that feature layouts with suitable track plans. Not all of them German prototype as it tends to be very similar across central Europe.

[Ian Morgan]

There were several single track routes around Munich in the early noughties, mostly part of the S-Bahn network, but freight handling tended to be away from the stations, via spurs into lineside industries or branches off to airports or military installations.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Ian Morgan

[Allegheny1600]

Hi there, TC,

Firstly, welcome to the German Railways section!

Since I took up German outline modelling, I've had the most fun and made some really great friends.

I have a space of 9' x 7' and here is a fairly typical plan to suit my space;

 

I've subsequently moved the station onto one of the loops, which would mean the siding shown for the station, could be eliminated. The other siding by the three-way point, could be eliminated or used for a goods shed. I've also eliminated one of the sidings in the quarry as I felt this diagram looked slightly too busy for my taste.

Hopefully, this illustrates the fairly typical central European design for a smaller station area is simply a pair of loops off the main running track, with possibly more sidings accessed from these loops.

Your specific questions;

"If the line was electrified, would electric locos handle the freight side or would they be all diesel?" Likely to be a mix but could be all electric.

"Would an electric loco be seen hauling trains of 5/6 wagons regularly?" On such a line, yes quite possible.

"Could an urban through route be single track?" Definitely, in fact this would be quite typical.

 

Here is a great photo site to give you ideas and inspiration;

https://www.flickr.com/photos/42309484@N03/

 

Cheers,

John.

[Mike Mackay]

The RoG forum would be a great place to ask your questions and simply browse around for information:

 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/germanrailfr/

 

Good luck,  Mike

[Guest teacupteacup]

Thanks for all the replies folks, very helpful.

 

I've looked through a mag I've gotten a hold of and it shows an e-lok with 1 double deck coach and 1 double deck cab coach.  Perfect!

 

Keep 'em coming!

[Neils WRX]

Hello

 

If the line was electrified, would electric locos handle the freight sidyye or would they be all diesel?

Would an electric loco be seen hauling trains of 5/6 wagons regularly?

Could an urban through route be single track?

Not going for 100% accuracy but would like to get the correct feel.

TC

Electrics (111 / 143) pushpull on passenger, but most of the “trip freight” would be diesel, but still expect all the sidings to be fitted with OHLE.

[michl080]

Hi TC,

 

funny coincidence. I am a German modeller looking into British layouts. Some of your questions above have been answered. If you need more information, I am sure I can help with details. I have a nice large bookshelf with lots of information...

 

There are quite a few forums in Germany. Even if you don't speak German, it may be worth looking into them. People there are mostly friendly folks happy to help. And most of them learnt English at least n school...

 

You could try

https://stummiforum.de/

http://www.h0-modellbahnforum.de/

https://projekte.lokbahnhof.de/

https://www.eisenbahnmodellbauforum.de/

 

They are listed in increasing order from basic to expert modellers

 

Have fun,

 

Michael

[michl080]

me again,

 

just a note about freight traffic in Germany. In 2001, the DB announced that they would shut down 1000 of 2100 freight loading points. The result of that program is that there is only very little freight traffic from smaller customers left. Since then, most freight trains are either targetted to large customers like automobile manufacturers or they carry bulk load like coal, oil, wood, sand etc. If you are interested in freight traffic, I would definitely propose to stay pre 2001.

 

Michael

[Ian Morgan]

I worked in Munich between 2001 and 2006 and I used to catch a train at Giesing station each morning. There was a separate freight line that ran from Muenchen-Ost to Giesing, parallel with the double track S-Bahn line (Interesting aside, the S-bahn tracks here were unusually left-hand running, in order to assist with the required reversal at Muenchen-Ost to access the tunnel section under the city centre).

 

The freight line served a coffee mill, and a tram maintenance depot (now the museum) just beyond Giesing, and on the other side of the S-bahn, a waste paper collection depot and a scrap yard. I often saw the trip working. The loco pushed wagons all the way to Giesing, usually with the driver on a step of the leading wagon with his remote control unit round his neck. The train usually consisted up to 5 empty Eaos type wagons for the scrap yard and something like a Habil to collect the waste paper. Once every couple of months there would be a single 4 wheel van for the coffee mill. The scrap yard had a single siding running into it. At the far end of the siding was a little Kopf loco (two for a while), presumeably for positioning the wagons for loading.

 

I am not an expert, and cannot give exact details, but hope my observations may be of interest.

 

Looks like one van for the coffee mill and 3 for the scrap yard today. The driver awaits the signal to leave the freight line and join the S-bahn main line for the short trip to the private sidings.

 

 

 

Just one for the scrap yard and one for the waste paper depot today, so the driver is staying in his cab, presumeably he can see OK with such a short train.

 

 

 

Two Kopfs at the end of the scrap yard siding. I assume the blue one had developed a fault and so the black one was hired in to take over its duties.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Ian Morgan
re-loaded images

[Guest teacupteacup]

I worked in Munich between 2001 and 2006 and I used to catch a train at Giesing station each morning. There was a separate freight line that ran from Muenchen-Ost to Giesing, parallel with the double track S-Bahn line (Interesting aside, the S-bahn tracks here were unusually left-hand running, in order to assist with the required reversal at Muenchen-Ost to access the tunnel section under the city centre).

 

The freight line served a coffee mill, and a tram maintenance depot (now the museum) just beyond Giesing, and on the other side of the S-bahn, a waste paper collection depot and a scrap yard. I often saw the trip working. The loco pushed wagons all the way to Giesing, usually with the driver on a step of the leading wagon with his remote control unit round his neck. The train usually consisted up to 5 empty Eaos type wagons for the scrap yard and something like a Habil to collect the waste paper. Once every couple of months there would be a single 4 wheel van for the coffee mill. The scrap yard had a single siding running into it. At the far end of the siding was a little Kopf loco (two for a while), presumeably for positioning the wagons for loading.

 

I am not an expert, and cannot give exact details, but hope my observations may be of interest.

 

Looks like one van for the coffee mill and 3 for the scrap yard today. The driver awaits the signal to leave the freight line and join the S-bahn main line for the short trip to the private sidings.

DSC01935.JPG

 

Just one for the scrap yard and one for the waste paper depot today, so the driver is staying in his cab, presumeably he can see OK with such a short train.

CIMG0599.JPG

 

Two Kopfs at the end of the scrap yard siding. I assume the blue one had developed a fault and so the black one was hired in to take over its duties.

DSC_1686.JPG

That is fabulous info, thanks for that, very very helpful!!!

[Gordonwis]

In reply to 

 

Ideally I'd like to build a small (10ft max) layout depicting an urban station with a small freight facility, set in the late 90's/early 00's. I have a few questions...

If the line was electrified, would electric locos handle the freight side or would they be all diesel?
Would an electric loco be seen hauling trains of 5/6 wagons regularly?
Could an urban through route be single track?

Not going for 100% accuracy but would like to get the correct feel.

TC

 

 

I would heartily recommend N Gauge for a compact German layout.

 

Many compact layouts seen on the circuit are end to end but I now favour and would recommend a continuous run as modern models can negotiate pretty tight curves so the size of the oval can be quite 'tight'. I have started building a series of compact layouts based on paste table boards which are 2000 mm by 560mm and most stock will  go round the sharp radius curves. Some of my layouts use Kato unitrack and some use Peco/Minitrix/Fleischmann. I am quite a fan of the Minitrix sectional track which is quite realistic and German designed so fits in with German modelling.

 

As far as prototypes go:

 

I'm not sure if you want 'city urban' or just 'urban' setting. If you want the former then a single track line with through station is more likely to be small and compact than a terminus, although a few minor 'town' or 'city' termini exist in Germany, such as Nürnberg Nordost. However even a compact town terminus is likely to have quite a few tracks whereas a through station might just have one platform or a loop with an island platform or two platforms. 

 

Even with extensive electrification, shunting and trip freight has long been the preserve of diesels in Germany. For the 1960s right through to today a 290 diesel (http://www.bahnbilder.de/name/galerie/kategorie/deutschland~dieselloks--98-80-vmax-bis-100-kmh~br-3-290-v-90.html) would be absolutely standard for freight trips, or the mixed traffic 211 (DB V100) which worked on both freight trips and local passenger. 

 

All over Europe electric and diesel main line locos can be seen hauling short freight train, anything from a single wagons upwards.

 

Very short passenger trains were less common in western Germany than in the old DDR, and in the late 1990s early 2000s one coach passenger trains were a regular sight in the ex-DDR. I made a specific trip in 2001 to ex-DDR (Colditz and east thereof) to see these in action.

 

And at this era former west German DB classes had become mixed with former DDR classes so you could set a layout in the former DDR.

 

Even much more recently two coach electric hauled trains were common.

 

2013:

http://railfoteurop.piwigo.com/picture?/4324/category/89-april_13_weissenfels

 

2015:

http://railfoteurop.piwigo.com/picture?/6766/category/193-floha

[HSB]

You can find a load of prototype German trackplans here:-

 

http://www.eisenbahn-mv.de/

 

Click on 'LAGERPLÄNE'

[Northmoor]

TC - Last year I decided to get rid of my old Continental Modeller magazines as they were just weighing down the loft.  However, I've acquired a few German locos and rolling stock over the years so just in case, scanned the useful articles, including a several on DB Locos, Vans, Stations, Signalling and operations.

 

These were all in the early 80s but describing the railways as they were then (steam had ended less that a decade earlier).  I think it would breach copyright to send you the scanned articles but look around for old copies of CM.  Nobody tends to want them so if you do find them - often at preserved railways - they will be dirt cheap.

[mogtrains]

In a similar position (had to recreate RMWeb profile as lost pwd/email!) been playing with US HO for a while, but interested in German stuff.. just found it hard to access really . Picked up a loco and a few wagons and making a start on a little micro as a taster. Aiming at North Germany, DB EpIV.