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brossard

BR Milk Train - Dapol Milk Tanks Upgraded

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I wonder if someone can point me at a suitable 7mm passenger brake van kit for a milk train.

 

I have two candidates from Tatlows Historic Carriage Drawings Vol 3.

 

The first is Dia 120, 170 or 177.  It is a 4 wheeled van built from 1928 to 1933.  The picture in the book shows a BR number.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercctc/hE3A7A2C#he3a7a2c

 

The other is an earlier design, a NER 6 wheeled brake van built from 1908 through 1925.  These were panelled,  In Tatlow E214E is shown in 1957 and lasted to 1961.

 

Sorry, I can't find a picture that I can post.  This one would make me happy: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brerbz

 

Thanks

 

John

Edited by brossard

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I wonder if someone can point me at a suitable passenger brake van for a milk train.

 

I have two candidates from Tatlows Historic Carriage Drawings Vol 3.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercctc/hE3A7A2C#he3a7a2c

 

The first is Dia 120, 170 or 177.  It is a 4 wheeled van built from 1928 to 1933.  The picture in the book shows a BR number.

 

The other is an earlier design, a NER 6 wheeled brake van built from 1908 through 1925.  These were panelled,  In Tatlow E214E is shown in 1957 and lasted to 1961.

 

Sorry, I can't find a picture that I can post.

 

Thanks

 

John

The D120 is (or was) part of the D& S range. Can't help with the NER 6 wheeler but CRT (?) do the Thompson six wheel brake.

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Thanks 90164.  I've modified my post to clarify that the kit I need is 7mm.  I believe LRM have picked up some the old D&S 4mm kits, I'not aware of any 7mm kits though.  I found CRT, look interesting.  However they don't show a LNER full brake.  The LMS Stove R is something I'm quite fond of.

 

John

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You could try a 4 wheel Pigeon Brake Van [PYB] as you suggest. They didnt just run on pigeon trains! For what its worth I'd like one as an LNER comparable vehicle to the LMS Stove R.

 

I'm hoping Isinglass will do a 3D print as they have the diagram 120 drawing, or possibly CRT. I dont know if the D&S kit is till available, I havent seen it.

 

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=928

 

Dava

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Both brakes that I mention were also used for pigeons and milk.  Your link is for the first candidate van, dia 120.  Did D&S make kits in 7mm?

 

John

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Both brakes that I mention were also used for pigeons and milk.  Your link is for the first candidate van, dia 120.  Did D&S make kits in 7mm?

 

John

 

Here's a very old D&S 7mm catalogue. Danny appears at exhibitions from time to time - not much help to you, I know, but he was at Guildex last September so still producing 7mm kits.

Dave

D and S 2009 Catalogue - part.pdf

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A mouthwatering list of kits to be sure.  Thanks.  I'm in Canada so visiting shows is not in the cards.

 

John

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Thanks for that Frank, I missed it when I went through the kits.  :scratchhead:    That looks like just the job. :sungum:

 

John

 

....and it's ordered.

 

RMWeb comes through again!

Edited by brossard
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I'm still waiting for my brake van kit.  I imagine these aren't kept in stock so some parts may have to be fabricated.  I'll give it a few days and drop CRT a line.

 

In the meantime, I received some Dapol tanks today:

 

post-5932-0-17421000-1519672241_thumb.jpg

 

I've read the reviews here and thought about the Slaters kit.  However the transfer choices from Slaters and other transfer suppliers didn't invclude MMB which I think more appropriate for early 60s.

 

There's no brake detail and I don't know what the vehicle is supposed to represent - I would like it to look like the LNER version.  I'm going to have fun adding the brake detail - if any one can provide info beyond that found In Peter Tatlows NPCS book, that would be great.  I like to think that with these models I'm 80% to where I want to be since most of the work has been done.

 

The Corgi road tanker is second hand and missing mirrors.  I can reinstate these from wire I reckon.  My vision is to replicate a photo I found of a road tanker on a platform using a portable pump to transfer milk.

 

John

 

Edit:  Looking through Google pictures I found this, dia 220:  http://www.crtkits.gbr.cc/product.php/6812038/.

I also found a picture of a dia 325 underframe.

Edited by brossard
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When Richard Webster joined Dapol he found the development of the Milk tank too far gone to get it to be a correct representation of anything. Even the wheel diameter wasn't confirmed (the companies varied in using carriage wheels - 3 ft 6in and wagon wheels - 3 ft. 1.5in). He decided the nearest he could get was LMS, hence the carriage wheels. MMB lettering appears to have been very rare, the commonest was United Dairies - unpainted or aluminium painted cladding with a strip for the United Dairies name and number. As you can see the from the kit illustration LNER wagons (and SRly) had auxilliary suspension which is noticeably different. Very complex subject and one discussed on other topics on here - but there is no definitive guide.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks

 

Paul

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Thanks Paul.  I did find a couple of pictures of LNER diag 325 (I ithink) which are similar to Dapol insofar as the brake lever location.  I'll take on board your comment about the Dapols being LMS ish and check into doing that if its easier.

 

Any brake gear arrangement pics or drawings out there?

 

John

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My brake kit hasn't arrived yet but I've been told that the caster has been having issues with the cold weather.

 

I have started on upgrading my two tanks.  I will be making them into LMS underframes since this is closest to the condition modelled.  I am currently gathering/making parts so I'll report on that shortly.

 

A question relating to steam pipes.  All the tanks that I have pictures of pre nationalisation have steam pipes.  Did milk tanks under BR continue to be fitted with steam pipes to at least 1962? 

 

A lot of these seem to have gone into departmental service and lost their steam pipes.  I have a picture of the St Ivel tank which has the flange for the steam pipe but no pipe.

 

John

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Interesting thread as I might be interested in modelling a section of line connected to a milk depot and creamery - maybe next year!

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I checked with Isinglass at the Nottingham show, they had a 3D print test version of the 4 wheel Pigeon Brake Van [PYB] which looked very good in teak finish and will be going into production soon.

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Good to know Dava.  I do want a pigeon van for my train.  Waiting for my CC to get it's breath back.

 

John

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So as I started thinking about upgrading the tanks, I noticed a number of things:

 

post-5932-0-94691200-1522609503_thumb.jpg

 

post-5932-0-83265700-1522609516_thumb.jpg

 

First, the middle J hangers should be longer than the outer.  I've been laboriously making new ones.

 

Second, all that lever gubbins, as far as I can tell from pictures, shouldn't be there.  All that has been stripped away.  I installed V hangers today with parts I scrounged from my spares box.  I have also scratch built a apir of cylinders.  I didn't have any and aslo didn't any tube of the right dia.  These were essentially carved from Evergreen strip glued together.  I mounted the piece in my Dremel and ran it against a file to get it cylidrical.

 

I will need to make brake yokes and cobble together the brake actuation.  The brake lever in the bottom picture is close enough but I iwill need to make a new one for the other side.

 

John

Edited by brossard

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I modified the title of this thread to reflect that my milk train isn't ex LNER after all.  I also indicated in the title that this phase covers the upgrade of the tanks.

 

I have completed 99% of the work on the tanks.  It was extensive although some of the things I did I wouldn't expect manufacturers to do.

 

Here's the side view:

 

post-5932-0-16943000-1523753250_thumb.jpg

 

Most noticeable here are the brake levers. These look a lot more like the LMS levers.  I found etched lever guides in my scrap box.

 

The other thing to note is the tiebars.  On the prototype the flat bar is twisted 90 deg.  I tried that but couldn't get my twist tight enough.  Instead I made the axlebox pieces with a twist and filed that down to give the perpendicular bar something to solder to.  A lot of work butt looks good I think.  Not sure if Dapol could have done this given they only use plastic.  The eagle eyed out there will notice that I haven't done the lateral ties.  This is the 1% left to do.

 

The other signature feature of LMS 6 wheeled vehicles is the center J hangers are longer than the outer.  These were a great pain to do but worth it I think.  Dapol could have done this if they had been paying attention.

 

post-5932-0-89531700-1523753261_thumb.jpg

 

I used Slaters vacuum and steam pipes here.  I like the flexible spring and the fixing bracket for the vac pipe.

 

I forgot to snip off the excess wire at the brake handle on the right.

 

The piece de resistance is the underside:

 

post-5932-0-75582300-1523753281_thumb.jpg

 

The Dapol model is absolutely devoid of detail, not even a vac cylinder.  So the bulk of the work was adding the sort of detail I like to do.  Vac and steam pipe runs (don't know if these are right, an educated guess based on other vehicles I've done).  Note the drain cock on the steam pipes.

 

Brake yokes were done from scratch using 0.032" wire and 1mm strip.  Dimensions were taken from a Parkside kit.

 

The brake mechanism is based on a clasp braked wagon drawing in Essery's LMS Wagon Drawings and my experience with Parkside kits.

 

Safety loops on the yokes are patterned after the drawing.  I used PB 0.032" wire because its quite malleable.

 

I was thinking to myself that this model, while "nice" is not really acceptable for Finescale 7mm (in fact it looks like a blown up version of the inaccurate 4mm model) and it really is a good thing that Lionheart are now in charge.

 

John

Edited by brossard
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So, next job is to do a "pigeon van" to round out the train.  I've been on the Sidelines, CRT and Kemilway sites but don't see a kit.  Can someone point me to a kit that I can actually buy (D&S probably do one but they're extremely internet stealthy).

 

John

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So, next job is to do a "pigeon van" to round out the train.  I've been on the Sidelines, CRT and Kemilway sites but don't see a kit.  Can someone point me to a kit that I can actually buy (D&S probably do one but they're extremely internet stealthy).

 

John

Modeller's Mecca did an etched kit years ago produced by Comet. Very good. I built one but sold it in a moment of weakness.

 

IMHO the D & S one is the best. DS304-7 4 whl Pigeon/Luggage Van D120.

 

Write to him, he is very responsive.

 

D&S Models

46 The Street

Wallington

Nr. Baldock

Herts

SG7 6SW

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Hi John,

 

Steamline Ltd have a D&S kit of an LNER/BR 32 ft General Parcels/Traffic van to Diag 86.

 

Sixty five pounds including wheels. The kit was eighty one pounds without wheels decades ago.

 

Look under O gauge kits.

 

I have dealt with Chris for over forty years.

 

See you at GBTS.

 

Alan

 

PS. I have lost your e-mail address.

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Thanks Alan for that info.  I've contacted Steamline about the Dia 86 so we'll see what happens.

 

Cheers

 

John

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Thanks Alan for that info.  I've contacted Steamline about the Dia 86 so we'll see what happens.

 

Cheers

 

John

It should suite I believe. Chris goes on vacation on the 22nd. Nice thing is you can pay by PayPal.

 

There is a whole pile of brass kits too if you click on the GWR loco photograph.

 

Regards

 

Alan

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