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Eyemouth O gauge 1906ish or 1923ish


sir douglas
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I thought you might be interested to see my N gauge version of the station building at Eyemouth.  No glazing until it is painted; I presume your colour scheme is authentic.  Also do you have any detailed information on the large house at the end of the yard?  The porch facing the station yard appears to be on the first floor level, photos seem to indicate that there was a retaining wall between the approach to this and the lower garden.  Even using Google Earth, it is unclear if this is still the case to date.

P1090749.JPG

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hi John, the colours are as Shez told me is the standard NB station colour scheme (dark brown frame, cream panelling and white window frame) which is suggested as almost the same as Southern brown and cream. this is correct until repainting by the LNER at some point after 1923 but ive assumed the cream for the triangle roof louvre vent. and at some point the canopy valance was cut back

 

About the house at the end, i dont have anything as i havent researched it because it isnt on our layout and i believe the garden is a few feet lower than the entrance/platform level based on photos and this street view from across the river

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8691173,-2.0897743,3a,25.8y,271.46h,85.27t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1szZ6yeISYqJg1k-W1dcGoyg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DzZ6yeISYqJg1k-W1dcGoyg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D51.771503%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

Edited by sir douglas
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  • 4 weeks later...

Just thought that I would confirm that work is still going on on the stock in partial lockdown.  The J21 and The NBR tank are both currently in the paintshop.  Joining them are an NBR 4 wheel brake third, a Reid Horsebox,  a 4 wheel "Singer" type NBR van and an NBR cattle wagon, all completed in the last couple of months.

 

I am still busy dealing with my late mothers affairs so any spare time is put to modelling rather than posting, but I will try and get some pictures soon.

 

Stay safe everyone. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

ive been wondering about at some point to build my own loco for the layout, i like the look of the wheatley Y10, which there is a photo of what looks to be one on the viaduct, i have magazine drawings for it

 

example photo of the Y10

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-LNER-CONSTITUENT-COMPANIES/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-THE-NORTH-BRITISH-RAILWAY/i-tKN9gw4

 

 

but maybe instead a GER E4 (T26) . From January 1940 to April 1942 No's 62781 and 62788 were transferred to Tweed mouth just to work the branch. At exhibitions it would be a good conversation stater or a pedant alarm for "you cant run a great eastern on a scottish layout!" to which can then be rebuttled

 

example photos of these 2, neither of which while on their northern holiday, there is another photo ive seen with a tender cab, maybe added from this time. i doubt you would need such protection in Essex or Suffolk

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=68051&search=62781

 

https://www.transporttreasury.com/p733306172/hb197bbb6#hb197bbb6

 

you might be able to make out the tender cab behind the watermark

https://www.transporttreasury.com/p733306172/h9ba23c25#h9ba23c25

 

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I think the problem with Y10 0-4-0 is there were only two of them, generally on mineral workings in Fife or the Motherwell area. Also the driving wheels were an odd tee cross section. I can probably find a drawing if you’re mad for it.

A good choice for an exGER loco would be a J69 0-6-0T, twenty of these were spread round the NBR system on shunting duties. Two of them appeared on the Lauder branch, which needed a light axleweight engine, so they had the side tanks empty, and towed a tender around, which might start an animated discussion at a show.

AFE12153-E01D-4F4B-9C3A-5D42577F576C.jpeg.ddc5a1616d8ce0553e2aafbe83190473.jpeg

 

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Interesting yes but so far no written or photo evidence that J69's worked the branch. i didnt know about the E4's until i got the Bylines article. ive got drawings for the Y10. Model Railway News 1952 and Railway Modeller 1966

 

ive had photos of an Engineer article (6th july 1894) for a while but only just noticed the drawing for the toll bridge portal and river retaining wall

 

close up of bridge drawing

364763301_articleeyemouthengineer(1)B.jpg.416ff61598f056451b2ac08b5297887b.jpg

 

 

The article also shows the harbour extension

1577803630_articleeyemouthengineer(3)B.jpg.3595c2e0014904f1abc1d9f20c33ce0a.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by sir douglas
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In reality number of ex GER, NER and GNR ended up North of the Border, by no means complete list but F4 F7 J69 in various guises including the 2 Lauder examples, B12,  D1 J21 J71 and J72 

 

As I recall the reason was axle load especially after the demise of the D51.

 

This resulted in the tender J69 solution. I also seem to recall the D1 's weren't that popular   

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5 minutes ago, Regularity said:

It might be a Drummond D class 0-6-0 (later J34?) there is a photo of one published, where it is incorrectly described as a J21.

 

I would say it's a bigger loco than the D. Not seen photos of one with that type of cab whereas there's plenty of C/J36s with it, were they all built with round cabs or was it just some builders?

 

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/GG6KDC/nbr-0-6-0-steam-locomotive-no775-of-the-lner-j36-class-at-edinburgh-GG6KDC.jpg

 

Strange mixing an NB D with a J21, the NB C perhaps as the NER C became J21.

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11 minutes ago, Worsdell forever said:

 

I would say it's a bigger loco than the D. Not seen photos of one with that type of cab whereas there's plenty of C/J36s with it, were they all built with round cabs or was it just some builders?

 

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/GG6KDC/nbr-0-6-0-steam-locomotive-no775-of-the-lner-j36-class-at-edinburgh-GG6KDC.jpg

 

Strange mixing an NB D with a J21, the NB C perhaps as the NER C became J21.

After a second look, I agree: it has a Holmes cab, which rather rules out a “wee Drummond”.

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I would say it’s a “Wheatley Goods” as rebuilt by Holmes, LNER class J31. The thing that settles it for me is the tender, with high slab sides and no coal rails, very Wheatley look to it. It would be very likely to be given branch line mixed traffic duties, and leave main line haulage to the more modern Drummond and Holmes classes. Isn’t that a marvellous train make up?

 

7CB1597B-9086-44D8-A254-D5DE1B962FD3.jpeg.6d5edc4a9fd671a62772b46c5107e15d.jpeg

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and a similar angle from about 1950, its a screenshot from an NLS video (14:03) of a J21 what looks to be 65067 which was Tweedmouth based at the time

https://movingimage.nls.uk/film/7953?search_term=eyemouth&search_join_type=AND&search_fuzzy=yes

 

a little bit of research give this shot as in 1949 to 51, the previous shot in the film is dated 1949 of the viaduct reopening after strengthening work to the base and this loco moved to Heaton and scrapped in 51 (according to brdatabase.info)

video capture 1 (5) 65067.JPG

Edited by sir douglas
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the photo i thought was a wheatley goods is actually a J21, this is from a Steam Days article in 1999

1118476658_photoeyemouthviaductJ21.jpg.39442dbf6bfd9188f1d37d1408d9b988.jpg

 

i am now having a look through all the photos and Tweedmouth allocations listing all the possible locos and using the allocation dates to help roughly date photos and figure other things in them, such as in this one which is dated 1950 still has the canopy valance but another dated 1959 doesn't, so that obviously gives a 9 year range for when it was cut

 

1950

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/7/561/

 

1959

https://www.transporttreasury.com/p618502258/he647cc2f#he647cc2f

 

4th photo down of a Tweedmouth J21 which could have worked the line

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/t/tweedmouth/index6.shtml

 

the current list of locos either known to have been on the line as marked by X or the rest of Tweedmouth's J21 and J39 fleet that could have most likely have worked it but not photographed. the dates are from again brdatabase, so some of them just start from day 1 of BR 1-1-1948 and i will someday try to find when they actually started at Tweedmouth

 

(list updated 21-9-2020)

 

NB era

-J31

336


-J33

249

 

-J34

 

-J82

49

162

 

-J83
828

 

Tweedmouth

-E4
62781 ?-1-1940 to 4-1942 X
62788 ?-1-1940 to 4-1942 X

 

-J21

_5026 1-1-1948 to ?-10-1949 (1)

65039 1-1-1948 to 21-4-1951
65061 14-12-1957 to 12-5-1958

65067 1-1-1948 to 24-3-1951
65070 14-12-1957 to 17-10-1959 X (2)
65078 18-6-1955 to 4-3-1957
65082 1-1-1948 to 1-1-1955
65091 22-1-1955 to 9-11-1957
65099 1-1-1948 to 8-3-1958

 

-j39
64710 8-9-1943 to 23-7-1945
64711 28-2-1948 to 23-5-1962
64788 19-3-1939 to 1-7-1939
64789 19-3-1939 to 8-7-1939
64813 28-2-1948 to 3-12-1962 X
64843 5-6-1949 to 20-8-1961 X
64844 14-8-1949 to 3-12-1962 X
64850 19-6-1939 to 20-1-1940
64854 17-7-1949 to 4-1-1953
64863 4-1-1948 to 28-2-1928
64917 23-10-1949 to 9-9-1962 X (3)
64925 14-8-1949 to 3-12-1962 X
64927 8-7-1939 to 17-1-1940
64929 8-9-1943 to 23-7-1945
64933 8-9-1943 to 23-7-1945
64941 4-1-1953 to 3-12-1962
64949 4-1-1948 to 24-2-1948
64982 23-5-1949 to 19-11-1950

 

(1)  was allocated 65026 but scrapped before the 6 prefix was painted on

 

(2) last J21 at Tweedmouth

 

(3) there is a grainy photo on FB of a J39 with the last train leaving in February 1962 taking all the remaining wagons before closure. the number ends in 7, so could 64917, 64927 or 65067 but the latter 2 werent at Tweedmouth anymore by this time which leaves 64917

 

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That’s the photo I referred to earlier: not a J21. Look at the cab side sheets, plus it is hauling Drummond 4 wheel coaches, which would predate LNER ownership.

I venture that’s a Drummond D class.

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Looking at RCTS “locos of the LNER” part 5, in the section on J31 allocations and work, it states that by grouping in 1923, Berwick had an allocation of just one, then mentions that No. 1195 was transferred to Tweedmouth ex NER shed when Berwick ex NBR shed was closed in August 1924, so it’s a safe bet this loco was seen at Eyemouth. 1195 was originally No. 246, getting the duplicate number, ie over 1000, in 5/1913. (LNER no.9968, then 10195, both in 1924)

Edited by Northroader
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The black and white photo of the NBR 0-6-0 on the embankment going onto the viaduct with the dumb buffer wagons is almost certainly one of the two J31 Holmes rebuild of Wheatley goods engines which worked the branch either no 1134 or 1195. .

 

The loco on the viaduct wrongly captioned in more than one book as a J21 is either a Drummond  (J33) or one of the Holmes standard goods some of which had a Drummond Cab - you can tell from the cab. How this got captioned as a J21 is beyond me. The J21s only started to be used after the LNER took over, Berwick shed was closed and branch responsibilities were changed to Tweedmouth.

 

Its strange that a number of photos of Eyemouth in print appear to have been wrongly captioned. A photo in Ian Futers "Modelling Scotlands Railways" is captioned as "post grouping" yet it is clearly in NBR days and shows a Holmes D class tank (J83) in the platform. Shape of cab and position of westinghouse pump confirms this. 

 

The following locos are known to have worked the line in NBR days. (NBR class designations are confusing -  more than one class having the same letter)  All had to be Westinghouse fitted for mixed trains and fish traffic. LNER numbers in brackets.

 

Class D 0-6-0 Holmes Tank (J83) no 828. Appears in at least two pictures. Later transfer to Edinburgh where it became one of the Waverly pilots.

 

Class D 0-6-0 Holmes Standard Goods. (J33)  No 249. (100% sure on this one as the buffer beam number is clearly visible on the picture)  Reboilered 1913.  The evidence in Yeadons suggests this loco was built with a Holmes cab.

 

Class E 0-6-0   Holmes rebuild of Wheatley Goods (J31) No  336 (1134)  and No 246 (1195)  Yeadons registers show both being condemned after transfer from Berwick to Tweedmouth in 1924 so may have worked the line immediately before grouping.  Yeadons shows that 1195 had received a Reid boiler in 1912 so would not have safety valves on the dome after this. The tenders on this class had no coal rails which supports Northroaders suggestion about the loco on the embankment.  If I had a guess the boiler fittings suggest No 336 as it looks like a Holmes boiler. (lock up valves on dome and clack valves on side) Compare pictures before and after reboilering on page 8 of Yeasdons Vol 26. If its 246 its pre 1912.

 

Class   R  0-6-0 T   Drummond "Terrier" tank.   (J82) No 162 Milngavie (1333)  and No 49 Sunnyside (1351)  (By the time the branch was opened Holmes had removed the names from this class on the grounds they confused passengers regarding the trains destination!)

 

There is a possible report of a Drummond Class D (J34) - the loco on the viaduct in the "J21 picture?  But no number is known. Yeadons suggests the nearest ones at grouping were at Hawick. The problem with identification on photos is the cabs. Holmes at first used the Drummond style cab before adopting his own distinctive round cab roofs. Others were rebuilt. So some Drummonds had Holmes cabs and some Holmes locos had Drummond cabs! A couple of the Drummond style cab J33s are known to have worked in the borders area. 

 

I can find no evidence that J36 locos (Class C)  worked the branch prior to BR days.  

 

So Sam if you want to build a loco I have drawings for any of the above!!  

Edited by Shez
wrong date for re boilering
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Love the article and the NBR stock. 

 

NBRSG photo archive has the locomotive on viaduct as an unidentified J34 and the original appears to be commercial Tucks postcard? 

 

I seem to recall on odd occasion even Cowlairs also sometimes struggled to differentiate between J33 and J34.

 

Also in NBRSG archive is undated commercial postcard view stating to be J33 no 85 at Burnmouth 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Number 152 has emerged from the paintshop in early LNER livery.   Just the final detailing to go now, so with a wet weekend forecast I hope to get on with it.  If you want a detailed account of building her its on my "shez's workbench" thread.  This will be the loco for running the layout in the 1920s period. 

 

IMG_20201002_155510.jpg.6c52fedebc3f492c85c79688cffb4126.jpg

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