R3555 Sir William Stanier F.R.S. re-run.

[robmcg]

It really cracks me up, people jump to point out at an RRP and then not buy a product. Since you clearly said £200+ is too much for a locomotive, then why not buy one of these? Magical price reductions...

£189 - http://www.hattons.co.uk/244019/Hornby_R3555_Class_8P_Princess_Coronation_4_6_2_46256_Sir_William_Stanier_F_R_S_in_BR_maroon/StockDetail.aspx

 

£179.50 - https://railsofsheffield.com/products/32294/Hornby-r3555-oo-gauge-br-4-6-2-sir-william-a-stanier-f-r-s-princess-coronation-class-modified-late-br-red

 

£174.25 - https://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/locomotives-steam/Hornby-r3555-br-4-6-2-princess-coronation-class-modified-br-red-late-crest-sir-william-a-stanier-frs/

 

Fair point, and it is a stunning model.

[adb968008]

It really cracks me up, people jump to point out at an RRP and then not buy a product. Since you clearly said £200+ is too much for a locomotive, then why not buy one of these? Magical price reductions...

£189 - http://www.hattons.co.uk/244019/Hornby_R3555_Class_8P_Princess_Coronation_4_6_2_46256_Sir_William_Stanier_F_R_S_in_BR_maroon/StockDetail.aspx

 

£179.50 - https://railsofsheffield.com/products/32294/Hornby-r3555-oo-gauge-br-4-6-2-sir-william-a-stanier-f-r-s-princess-coronation-class-modified-late-br-red

 

£174.25 - https://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/locomotives-steam/Hornby-r3555-br-4-6-2-princess-coronation-class-modified-br-red-late-crest-sir-william-a-stanier-frs/

I think its because the 2017 RRP was £189.99, and has increased £15, which is an 8% price increase, in little over 6 months since it appeared on shelves.

 

however discount prices have changed, it was possible to find this model at c£150, where as now its not available sub £175.. which in real terms to consumer is a 15% increase ? - have retail margins reduced too or are they electing not to discount ?

 

of side consequence the £ has recovered around 5% against other relevant currencies.

 

 

it all depends on how limited the limited run is, as to whether it sells, I suspect a good number of  purchasers, were also speculators too and they could return those models to market before the new run arrives and soak up that excess demand leaving this new batch high and dry.

Edited February 19, 2018 by adb968008

[MGR Hooper!]

I think its because the 2017 RRP was £189.99, and has increased £15, which is an 8% price increase, in little over 6 months since it appeared on shelves.

 

however discount prices have changed, it was possible to find this model at c£150, where as now its not available sub £175.. which in real terms to consumer is a 15% increase ? - have retail margins reduced too or are they electing not to discount ?

 

of side consequence the £ has recovered around 5% against other relevant currencies.

 

 

it all depends on how limited the limited run is, as to whether it sells, I suspect a good number of  purchasers, were also speculators too and they could return those models to market before the new run arrives and soak up that excess demand leaving this new batch high and dry.

I am assuming that the price increase is nothing but Hornby understanding that it's a model that sells quickly. Therefore it's additional income.

[MikeParkin65]

I think part of the problem is whether the Duchess is seen as ‘worth’ £180. It’s a good model and it is better than the previous version but it’s not a better model than others which are available significantly cheaper - Hornby Brits, Scots, A3’s etc Bachmann 9Fs and the like. Until and unless prices drop I’ll be sticking with my 2 (46256 and 46229) and actively upgrading earlier models

[Dunsignalling]

I think its because the 2017 RRP was £189.99, and has increased £15, which is an 8% price increase, in little over 6 months since it appeared on shelves.

 

however discount prices have changed, it was possible to find this model at c£150, where as now its not available sub £175.. which in real terms to consumer is a 15% increase ? - have retail margins reduced too or are they electing not to discount ?

 

of side consequence the £ has recovered around 5% against other relevant currencies.

 

 

it all depends on how limited the limited run is, as to whether it sells, I suspect a good number of  purchasers, were also speculators too and they could return those models to market before the new run arrives and soak up that excess demand leaving this new batch high and dry.

AIUI the first batch of the SWS model was 3,000 pieces short (a touch of the Exeter syndrome) and many dealers (and therefore their would-be customers) didn't get any, with deliveries (so I am informed) going only to those who had ordered 30 or more. That should have tended to squeeze out small-scale speculators, too.

 

There should therefore be plenty of outstanding demand. This announcement is being presented as a re-run, when it seems rather more a case of playing catch-up.

 

If a retailer decides its possible to shift everything at a lower discount, why would they offer a higher one. If it doesn't fly they can always adjust it later.

 

I have been categorically assured by a gentleman from Hornby that there was no under-supply of this model and that 1500 was the intended quantity of the original batch.

 

My informant was clearly incorrect and this post should be disregarded. 

 

John

Edited February 20, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[adb968008]

Hmm £200 RRP... everyones forgotten the RRP of the Heljan Garratt.

[Dunsignalling]

Hmm £200 RRP... everyones forgotten the RRP of the Heljan Garratt.

Pointless discussion, in two years time, it'll be the new locos that come in under £200 that will be exceptional.............

Edited February 20, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[The Blue Streak]

Perhaps We need to look outside the square a little.

May I suggest that the increase in prices on all these goods especially those recent releases that are entirely new tooling are as a result of the increase in Labour costs in China.

 

The previously mentioned A3 / A4 etc etc had the moulds built a fair while ago when Labour was cheap, also they can afford to sell the older models cheaper as those moulds have already paid for themselves many times over no doubt, although some such as the A3 are now very tired and the last few models have suffered because of it. You can expect them to get a price hike once they have been newly tooled.

 

Of course if the price hikes are as a result of the increase in Labour. Then fair enough, I can't see why the workers in China shouldn't expect better wages and conditions, they would still be a long way short of what We in UK and Oz etc would expect I might imagine.

 

There was some talk in another thread that perhaps it's time for production to return to the UK. My thoughts are - We would be paying closer to 300 quid for top line models such as the Duchess. (You know UK minimum wages / conditions and all that malarkey).

 

Would We prefer to see production moved to a third world sweat shop to bring prices down? Not Me I'm afraid.

 

But to get back on topic. If Hornby have hit a home run on these and sales have been good enough to warrant a second run, then that's got to be a good thing for Hornby and ultimately Us as the hobby would be poorer if they were to go under.

[MikeParkin65]

According to the Hornby website the new batch is now due October 2018. So you’ve got a little longer to save up.

[Clive Mark]

Hornby website now showing Sir William Stanier as expected October 2018.....so more time for people's finances to catch up ? and more time for the market to digest the current situation of speculators selling on ebay and customers failing to buy originally for whatever reason to have a think and perhaps buy one at the second chance without ebay inflated gazumping.

[MikeParkin65]

Hornby website now showing Sir William Stanier as expected October 2018.....so more time for people's finances to catch up ? and more time for the market to digest the current situation of speculators selling on ebay and customers failing to buy originally for whatever reason to have a think and perhaps buy one at the second chance without ebay inflated gazumping.

Guess I’ve ‘ruined’ mine by adding Gibson pony wheels, fox plates and drilling two small holes in the tender floor for the zimo speaker

[adb968008]

Pointless discussion, in two years time, it'll be the new locos that come in under £200 that will be exceptional.............

 

hmm.. so fait accompli ?

 

in which case this makes your response  also a pointless discussion ? 

 

mes pas ?

 

no point mentioning price, its inevitable, acceptable and people will pay it ?

-- time will tell,  i don't need two, so i'm alright jack, I think i'm not alone....

4  5 listed on ebay today, one for £170 buy it now..., 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xr3555+stanier.TRS0&_nkw=r3555+stanier&_sacat=0

 

i feel sorry this guy.. bought Feb 12th, for £370.. i wonder if the postman delivered it yet..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R3555-BR-Princess-Coronation-Sir-William-A-Stanier-FRS-Brand-New/122949859586?epid=12008042464&hash=item1ca061f902:g:2nIAAOSwSutaCHNV

Edited February 20, 2018 by adb968008

[MikeParkin65]

Do reruns always get the same catalogue number as the first batch? Idle curiosity

[adb968008]

Do reruns always get the same catalogue number as the first batch? Idle curiosity

Traditionally yes... when identical.

[Dunsignalling]

hmm.. so fait accompli ?

 

in which case this makes your response  also a pointless discussion ? 

 

mes pas ?

 

no point mentioning price, its inevitable, acceptable and people will pay it ?

-- time will tell,  i don't need two, so i'm alright jack, I think i'm not alone....

4  5 listed on ebay today, one for £170 buy it now..., 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xr3555+stanier.TRS0&_nkw=r3555+stanier&_sacat=0

 

i feel sorry this guy.. bought Feb 12th, for £370.. i wonder if the postman delivered it yet..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R3555-BR-Princess-Coronation-Sir-William-A-Stanier-FRS-Brand-New/122949859586?epid=12008042464&hash=item1ca061f902:g:2nIAAOSwSutaCHNV

It may or may not be inevitable (objective) or acceptable (subjective, varying with the desirability of the item, the circumstances of the prospective buyer and how badly he wants one), but all the signs point to it being likely to continue and most of it is down to the reduced value of sterling.

 

If you think loco prices are going up fast, check out what's happened with new-model cameras over the past year.

 

As for the punter who paid £370 for a SWS, he was evidently very keen to have one, could presumably afford it and he's got what he wanted; end of.

 

If, however, he's a speculator and was hoping to make a further profit on top, good show, them as live by the sword, die by the sword.

 

John

Edited February 20, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Right Away]

Unfortuntrly price increases are a fact of life and inevitable.

In the meantime certain older models which are showing their age regarding detail still command relatively high prices for what is essentially just a renumbering.

What I do find disconcerting is that in the distant future the number of customers who experienced the steam age will naturally fall which could have an undesirable reduction in interest in the older eras with which we are currently quite lavishly served by the manufactures. This in turn might result in reduced production runs combined with a corresponding increase in price for those models that are produced. Hopefully, we're a long way from that.

[JSpencer]

At the end of the day, market forces play into it. If people cannot afford it, they won,t buy it. That is it, bottom line.

 

Hornby's new run is probably cautious, retailers are probably ordering enough to meet their demands. It's a small run, the need to reset up the production line costs money. If the run is 500 and 500 people are prepared to pay £190, they will sell. It is highly unlikely they will sell a 1000 for £170 though.

 

My most expensive this year are Alantics, and I,m still hesitating over the H1. Would love the grey blue pullman, but that is totally out of region for me, a rule number 1 item, however £800, I cannot afford it (either that or I sacrifice half of the 15 locos currently on order due this year - still a big glut of southern items to come).

[robmcg]

I was just sorting through some photos and came across this rather unedited pic of R3555...

 

 

quite a nice model, you have to say....

 

 

[No Decorum]

At the end of the day, market forces play into it. If people cannot afford it, they won,t buy it. That is it, bottom line.

 

Hornby's new run is probably cautious, retailers are probably ordering enough to meet their demands. It's a small run, the need to reset up the production line costs money. If the run is 500 and 500 people are prepared to pay £190, they will sell. It is highly unlikely they will sell a 1000 for £170 though.

 

My most expensive this year are Alantics, and I,m still hesitating over the H1. Would love the grey blue pullman, but that is totally out of region for me, a rule number 1 item, however £800, I cannot afford it (either that or I sacrifice half of the 15 locos currently on order due this year - still a big glut of southern items to come).

 

I bless the day I took the plunge and secured a Blue Pullman (a tour de force on Bachmann’s part). It cost less that half the present offering. Like yourself, I find the new version beyond reach. Unlike you, though, I am not hesitating over the H1. It is just one of those things which has to be afforded somehow. Bachmann delays are quite welcome in this respect. What I have on my greedy list, including two Brighton Atlantics and a Nellie, is going to give me much more pleasure than spending the equivalent on the new Pullman.

 

I could add the “Night Owl” and 07 but it remains to be seen if they give me pleasure or grief!

[Forester]

What I do find disconcerting is that in the distant future the number of customers who experienced the steam age will naturally fall which could have an undesirable reduction in interest in the older eras with which we are currently quite lavishly served by the manufactures. This in turn might result in reduced production runs combined with a corresponding increase in price for those models that are produced. Hopefully, we're a long way from that.

 

If that were so, since the number of customers who experienced the heyday of SECR has fallen to single figures, the demand for SECR should have fallen to near zero. Instead it has increased exponentially.

[MikeParkin65]

I was running my 46256 last night. Its nicely run in now with a Zimo sound chip (Digitrains) fitted  and is a superb smooth runner.  My minimum radius is 30 inch yet I have the draincocks and front steps fitted with no consequent issues (although I changed the supplied pony wheels for Alan Gibsons which may allow slightly more clearance). Best of all I tried it with a 13 coach load (my usual maximum train length is 8) and it romped away with just the slightest slip on starting. This rake included 8 of the heavy and not so free running Bachmann MK1s.

 

 

For all the issues I and others have encountered with this model, get a good one (and this was my second example) and they are superb

[Steamport Southport]

If that were so, since the number of customers who experienced the heyday of SECR has fallen to single figures, the demand for SECR should have fallen to near zero. Instead it has increased exponentially.

 

It's worth remembering that in order to have even seen BR standard gauge steam then you are at least fifty. To remember it properly then you are going to be over sixty.

 

 

If people modelled what they remember then there must be a hell of a lot of BR Blue layouts out there. 

 

 

 

Jason

[phil-b259]

If that were so, since the number of customers who experienced the heyday of SECR has fallen to single figures, the demand for SECR should have fallen to near zero. Instead it has increased exponentially.

 

While there may not be anybody around from the late 1880s, over the decades there are LOTS of folk (increasing year on year) who get to experience SECR products via a trip to the Bluebell - with their gorgeous SECR liveried C, 01, H and P locos, plus those SECR Maroon 4 wheelers you can really get a sense of what the real thing was like.

 

Personally (and very much tongue in check here before anyone gets offended ) I'm looking forward to the day when there is nobody around whose only experience of steam is BR black / end of steam grot and pretty grouping / pre grouping liveries are back in vogue.

[adb968008]

As an aside this morning I was at tooting station to watch 45212 come through.

The platforms was packed by approx 50odd people who had somehow heard of 45212 coming through.

 

For the first time in as long as I can recall, I really only saw 1 person, who may have been old enough to remember 45212 in BR days, everyone else was families or 30/40’s.

On my home I suddenly happened on the Northern Belle on its way to Epsom races..

So tonight i’m Out at 5pm / 6pm to see it head back.

 

In short, steam isn’t just for old people any more, even my generation who suffered the “anorak” tag in the 1980’s, the interest in trains is becoming socially acceptable.

Edited June 2, 2018 by adb968008

[Crewlisle]

What is the latest release date of the second batch of Sir William Stanier?  I was originally having one for my birthday at the end of May.  Probably change it to a Christmas present!

 

Peter