JLTRT

[delticfan]

It is quite possible that PW’s costs/losses would have been greater if he hadn’t made the range available...

But maybe the likely sales had peaked: there was a real thirst for the range when it was introduced, but that will have been sated a while ago, regardless of RTR availability, and supporting such a large range was producing ever decreasing returns.

Imagine the appetite for jltrt diesel kits in about 3years they’ll sell loads now that folks realise what’s been lost.

[rob D2]

I think the I want now attitude today does not help the gaining of kit scratch building skills. Long gone unfortunately when most boys started throwing plastic airfix etc kits together at a rather tender age. I know my first was a five. Probably more finger prints than details at the end. Then the progression through to boats planes cars or trains. Or a mixture of any. My first proper models were aircraft. Now you go buy a box with shaped foam in it that assembles in minutes and it's called modelling. As for cost I as a single parent bringing up 4 kids and working. I found loco kits or scratch building a very cheap way to model. If a £350 took a year to build it made a cheap hobby £1 a day. Yes if you want everything tomorrow then it does become very expensive.

Rant over

Back to JLTRT, I am sure it's not the end of PW's live with kits. The ex Mitchell kits will be around again they are good can't be much development cost left to recover if anything. Unless the rights etc were over paid.

 

 

That's probably part of the problem.........if I brought a £500 kit it would take me a year to build it. Bit like the air fix effect they talk of.

[Regularity]

That's probably part of the problem.........if I brought a £500 kit it would take me a year to build it. Bit like the air fix effect they talk of.

So, £10 a week.

Not very expensive, looked at that way!

[Brassey]

Perhaps time for London Road to expand its range into the GWR? There's a definite gap in the kit market for pre grouping GWR locos, particularly some of the more workaday types.

 

The Malcolm Mitchell 4mm offering is not exclusively pre-grouping e.g. Grange, Manor, Castle, King...all post-grouping.

 

I have read elsewhere that David Geen stated the 517 was the biggest seller by far. That now has competition from a cast kit.  I bought a 517 as soon as I knew DG was retiring.  

[Horsetan]

The Malcolm Mitchell 4mm offering is not exclusively pre-grouping e.g. Grange, Manor, Castle, King...all post-grouping.

 

I have read elsewhere that David Geen stated the 517 was the biggest seller by far. That now has competition from a cast kit. I bought a 517 as soon as I knew DG was retiring.

The Manor was never available from David as the artwork for the body was lost. It's still lost today.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Odd that both the artwork and the tool (probably held by the etchers) went missing. When LRM bought the 4mm Steve Barnfild kits, the artwork wasn't suppied the photo etch tools which were at the etchers.

[Horsetan]

Odd that both the artwork and the tool (probably held by the etchers) went missing....

 

When I asked David ages ago (I was looking for two Manor kits plus castings), he told me he didn't have artwork or tools because they weren't in the material handed over to him. Where they are now, God only knows. He didn't seem all that enthusiastic about it anyway, as I was apparently one of just three people who had enquired about the Manor in a very long while.

 

I had some Ultrascales from Malcolm Mitchell's eBay sales and mentioned the missing Manor in passing to him; he was surprised it had gone AWOL as he had handed everything over when he sold the range on.

[dmurrell]

When I asked David ages ago (I was looking for two Manor kits plus castings), he told me he didn't have artwork or tools because they weren't in the material handed over to him. Where they are now, God only knows. He didn't seem all that enthusiastic about it anyway, as I was apparently one of just three people who had enquired about the Manor in a very long while.

I was talking to David at Scaleforum a few years ago - he told me the same thing had happened to the 3,500 gallon intermediate tender artwork, which suggests a bit of a mix-up with handover. I wonder if they ended up in the JLRT 7mm stuff?

 

David Murrell

[Horsetan]

..... I wonder if they ended up in the JLTRT 7mm stuff?

Who knows?

[rob D2]

So, £10 a week.

Not very expensive, looked at that way!

That’s not the point I’m making. Airfix make great kits for adults....but once a complex one is brought they won’t see the same customer for months , I.e no repeat trade for a bit. Edited March 3, 2018 by rob D2

[pylonman]

Hi Gents.

 

Following my previous post, being £455 out of pocket for a Class 47 model, I thought there may be some interest in how

I am managing to try and retrieve my money.

 

I have contacted Grainger Corporate Rescue and Recovery, but as yet, not received any answer from them. (they were the liquidators

nominated in The Gazette article)

 

Anybody advise me as to how I find out whether they have been appointed Liquidators ?

 

I don't have any experience whatsoever, in dealing with a company that has gone bust, so any advice as to how this situation proceeds would be

welcome.

 

If anybody has advice, could you PM me ?

 

Thanks

[polybear]

Did you pay by credit card or paypal by any chance?  If so then claim back from them.  Or if by cheque - has it been cashed yet?  If not then cancel the cheque.

HTH

Brian

 

edit:  Just looked up your original post - it was Paypal.  So lodge a claim with them for a refund, should be straightforward (just state non-delivery). I believe P.P will find in your favour if they don't receive a defence for JLTRT, which may well be likely.  Though I'd not mention to P.P. about JLTRT going into receivership, just in case there's a tiny clause in their very long and complicated terms & conditions.....

HTH

Edited March 5, 2018 by polybear

[Hal Nail]

I bought some bike parts which were clearly faulty some years ago and opened a PayPal claim which was found in my favour. I was then told there were no funds in the seller’s PayPal account to replay me so the account was simply blocked until more funds went in (which is unlikely to happen if a company isn’t trading). In the meantime I had contacted my credit card linked to fund my own PayPal account, and they had refunded me instantly.

 

Having said all that, unfortunately if a company ceases to trade and is being officially wound up or similar, there will be protocols on the order that people get repaid out of any funds freed up (which is why an independent liquidator is appointed in the first place) and PayPal and credit cards may not be able to intervene anyway.

 

I’m sure in due course all creditors would be contacted and invited to lodge a claim. It is quite possibly too soon for that at the moment given we haven’t confirmed it has actually happened yet.

 

If anyone has better info feel free to correct me but this is my understanding of how these things generally work which is merely intended to help (albeit not very positive) anyone in this situation.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Hal Nail

[Bucoops]

I don't think credit cards pay out any more if paypal are involved unfortunately.

[polybear]

I recall Pete W. being interviewed on TV, during which he confirmed that he'd spent (IIRC) around 60K on Gold Bath Taps (jeez...). So hopefully he won't see any fellow railway modellers go out of pocket

[djparkins]

I recall Pete W. being interviewed on TV, during which he confirmed that he'd spent (IIRC) around 60K on Gold Bath Taps (jeez...). So hopefully he won't see any fellow railway modellers go out of pocket

 

Yeah, I've got gold bath taps too. Only problem is that the paint keeps coming off on the hot one!

 

David Parkins

MMP

[Jol Wilkinson]

It is usual for unsecured creditors to be well down the list of those who are reimbursed by the Reciever. Customers are likely to be at the bottom of that list, unfair though it may seem. So it is best to seek other avenues straight away, Credit Card companies probably being the best way, if you paid by CC.

 

A search will turn up information on this such as;

 

https://www.begbies-traynorgroup.com/articles/director-advice/the-difference-between-secured-and-unsecured-creditors

[pylonman]

Hi.

 

Thanks for the support.

 

I have lodged an "item not received" with Paypal, but as I have waited since last June for the 47/8 to be produced, I don't hold out 

too much hope.

 

From the point of view of Credit Card reclaim ; there is a 30 day limit on claiming back payments.......... I'm well outside of that !!.

 

I have contacted Grainger Corporate Recovery and Rescue, but no answer.  At this time, all I want out of Grainger is an acknowledgement of 

my claim, and thereby, assurance that I am not being ignored.

 

"In the grand scheme of things" I would think that I am "a minnow" and therefore at the back of the queue.

 

Regards

Keith

[purplepiepete]

Hi.

 

Thanks for the support.

 

I have lodged an "item not received" with Paypal, but as I have waited since last June for the 47/8 to be produced, I don't hold out 

too much hope.

 

From the point of view of Credit Card reclaim ; there is a 30 day limit on claiming back payments.......... I'm well outside of that !!.

 

I have contacted Grainger Corporate Recovery and Rescue, but no answer.  At this time, all I want out of Grainger is an acknowledgement of 

my claim, and thereby, assurance that I am not being ignored.

 

"In the grand scheme of things" I would think that I am "a minnow" and therefore at the back of the queue.

 

Regards

Keith

 

 

 

Hi, unfortunately I think you are correct as confirmed by this article link below. A last resort may be through the small claims court.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/jun/23/paypal-buyer-protection-short-lived

[Jol Wilkinson]

The difficulty with the SCC is where will the money come from if the company has been liquidated.

[purplepiepete]

True, maybe Mr Waterman should cough up by selling his gold taps ! However if rumours are true that he has already propped up the company to the tune of several mill then he has tried his best I guess.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/claim-money-back-from-a-bankrupt-person-or-company-in-compulsory-liquidation-guidance-for-creditors/claim-money-back-from-a-bankrupt-person-or-company-in-compulsory-liquidation-guidance-for-creditors

 

Otherwise it's sadly the usual queue up and wait your turn as per. Does also sound to me like there has been a breach of the Distance Selling Regulations (as was) in this case ?

[muddys-blues]

Hi.

 

Thanks for the support.

 

I have lodged an "item not received" with Paypal, but as I have waited since last June for the 47/8 to be produced, I don't hold out 

too much hope.

 

From the point of view of Credit Card reclaim ; there is a 30 day limit on claiming back payments.......... I'm well outside of that !!.

 

I have contacted Grainger Corporate Recovery and Rescue, but no answer.  At this time, all I want out of Grainger is an acknowledgement of 

my claim, and thereby, assurance that I am not being ignored.

 

"In the grand scheme of things" I would think that I am "a minnow" and therefore at the back of the queue.

 

Regards

Keith

 

 

Hi Keith, are you a member of the Gauge O Guild forum ? if so go and post your predicament on there, as I would like to think Mr Waterman wouldn't like the negative publicity, by this ?I mean put the factual information on the forum without be slanderous or abusive in anyway "unlike some people have already posted on certain forums".

 

This episode is only going to leave a sour taste in a lot of People's mouths who will be left out of pocket, no matter how large or small the figure is, any amount of money can be alot to the everyday Man.

 

I hope you get your monies back.

 

Best regards

Craig.

[Bob Reid]

I'm really not sure ramping this up against the former owner is going to achieve anything - I certainly wouldn't be encouraging anyone to go onto another forum and add your name to a list of so called aggrieved parties. If as many folk that seem to know how to fix it, or who'll allege they've been done over had actually bought the kits over the years then perhaps the owner would not have found himself in this position and nor would the employees have found themselves being made redundant as a result.  

​The best course of action is to explore all and as many legal avenues as possible first as Keith has done. Let the system which is designed to resolve any outstanding claims (but not unfortunately to everyone's satisfaction) from all legitimate creditors to take place.  

​Keith you may well have already done this however you would be best placed to send the full information of your claim (including photocopies of the proof of payment / withdrawal of funds) that you have for items outstanding by Royal Mail 1st Class signed for delivery and ask them to provide acknowledgement of the claim by return.  

Edited March 6, 2018 by Bob Reid

[pylonman]

Thanks Bob.

 

I agree with your sentiments ; I have no intention of dealing in anything other than cold, hard, facts.

 

I did send a letter to Grainger, by Special Delivery, last Friday.

It contained copies of the relevant paperwork and it was delivered and signed for 10:37am Monday.

 

I set out my position, and what I expect as an outcome.

 

Just have to wait now, although the lack of response is frustrating.

 

Regards

Keith

[pylonman]

Thanks for your support Craig.

 

I genuinely started this thread because I stand to lose a lot of money, and I have no experience as to what the processes

are in liquidating a Company.

 

I have asked for input because I would hate to think that I lost the money because I missed the opportunity for refund because 

I either didn't know something, or I wasn't told something I should have been told.

 

Anyway, I think I may have hijacked this thread, something I hate when others do it, so I will not make any more entries to it,

and I apologise to anybody who feels I have hijacked it.

 

Any more advice would be welcome, but by PM please.

 

Many thanks to all.