RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 28, 2018 Absolute nightmare with track circuits. We had some on the approach to one of the early AHBs. The barriers were always staying down as the track circuit failed to pick after the train passed. I've heard that before, there are still quite a few of the sleepers round here but with baseplates for flat bottom rather than chairs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ncarter2 Posted March 28, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2018 Bullhead on Wessex route is still in place on the main lines and as recently as 2015/2016 there was Bullhead switch and crossings at Wool, a slight curve with a 90mph line Speed. Was interesting cab riding over them. Depending on amount of decayed sleepers per length usually dictates 1inX to change. There is a section at Romsey with no current date for renewal, currently we are doing 1 in 6. Flat bottom slips have been around for a long time even on concrete. Up in Scotland there is a program of renewing a line with Bullhead rail, it being brought in by ship from abroad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 28, 2018 Not foreign rail again??? Why does the railway of today seem to forget anything that happened longer than ten years ago. It really annoys me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted March 29, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2018 Absolute nightmare with track circuits. We had some on the approach to one of the early AHBs. The barriers were always staying down as the track circuit failed to pick after the train passed. Why? Is there some peculiarity with concrete sleepers & BH used together? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 29, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2018 I believe its the design of those sleepers where reinforcing rods within the sleepers making contact with the bolts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Not foreign rail again??? Why does the railway of today seem to forget anything that happened longer than ten years ago. It really annoys me! The Devil - thy name is "Lucchini" ................ those were the days Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted March 29, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2018 I believe its the design of those sleepers where reinforcing rods within the sleepers making contact with the bolts Ahhh. I guess it's not a problem with fb rail, with the fastening cast in the concrete? But why can't a BH rail chair be cast into the sleeper in the same way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 29, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2018 Why? Is there some peculiarity with concrete sleepers & BH used together? I believe its the design of those sleepers where reinforcing rods within the sleepers making contact with the bolts Even modern sleepers can give problems due to contact between the reinforcing and the rail fastenings. that is why it is important for the pads under FB rail and the Pandrol insulations to be in good condition on track circuited lines. Another problem is the chairs were bolted through making electrical separation more difficult. It also has the effect of lowering the ballast resistance especially in damp weather, thus changing the drop and pick-up characteristics of the track circuit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 29, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2018 Even modern sleepers can give problems due to contact between the reinforcing and the rail fastenings. that is why it is important for the pads under FB rail and the Pandrol insulations to be in good condition on track circuited lines. Another problem is the chairs were bolted through making electrical separation more difficult. It also has the effect of lowering the ballast resistance especially in damp weather, thus changing the drop and pick-up characteristics of the track circuit. When our local branch was singled and continuously track circuited in the early 1960s one of the longest running civil's tasks was installing insulation for about a mile of concrete sleepered bullhead rail track. no doubt there was further entertainment in more recent times when a section of steel sleepered track arrived! (Nowadays we live in 'it'll count them all in then later count them all out' axle counter territory but I'll say nothing about the wider 'signalling' system and loss of capability which has come with the axle counters.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ncarter2 Posted March 29, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2018 The Devil - thy name is "Lucchini" ................ those were the days When I was on the West Coast mainline at Rugby we had to rerail the up fast at the Country End as the Lucchini Rail has worn so badly. Not even 12 month old. Thankfully it was laid on G44’s so was able to be Rerailed with 113/56e1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ncarter2 Posted March 29, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2018 When our local branch was singled and continuously track circuited in the early 1960s one of the longest running civil's tasks was installing insulation for about a mile of concrete sleepered bullhead rail track. no doubt there was further entertainment in more recent times when a section of steel sleepered track arrived! (Nowadays we live in 'it'll count them all in then later count them all out' axle counter territory but I'll say nothing about the wider 'signalling' system and loss of capability which has come with the axle counters.) We have a section of steels that currently have TC leakage. Bloody pain to keep decent geometry on too. By the time they finally get round to ETRMS there will be some new system being used. We always seem to be on the back foot when it comes to technology and advancement. Shame when you consider the railway was born here. Instead we waste money on white elephants, HS2 - personal opinion, and make promises that then don’t get kept - electrification. Still the track needs constant care so can’t complain there. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 29, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2018 (edited) We have a section of steels that currently have TC leakage. Bloody pain to keep decent geometry on too. Also can give a strange aerial effect with track circuit assisters on DMUs. We had one uninsulated lot on an unfitted line. When a DMU went over it the track circuit on the other line went down due to the interference signal being induced in it. I also remember some steel sleepers at ManVic. First vehicles over them derailed but fortunately it was an empty ballast. They weren't evenly packed and one end dug in throwing the cross levels and alignment haywire. They seem to slide sideways quite easily if not installed spot-on. Edited March 29, 2018 by TheSignalEngineer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 29, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2018 I had a derailment about 10 years ago with steel sleepers. I was on a set of auto ballasters and there was a void under some steels causing a couple of them to come off. Network rail got everyone on site medscreened and the job ended up overrunning by a few days because of it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Noticed today that the Up line through Yeovil Junction on the premier main line to Exeter and Devon is still laid in BH with the chairs dating from 1926 (not sure about the rails but no reason why they aren't the originals) which pretty much puts that section if not laid then at least probably planned in the LSWR days .............. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Not quite main line I'll admit but a lot of the rail in Boston station has been replaced in the last few months. Existing sleepers and chairs, newly installed bull head rail. No idea if they're going to do the same to the west but quite a lot of the sleepers between the station and docks junction look pretty well life expired. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 When our local branch was singled and continuously track circuited in the early 1960s one of the longest running civil's tasks was installing insulation for about a mile of concrete sleepered bullhead rail track. no doubt there was further entertainment in more recent times when a section of steel sleepered track arrived! (Nowadays we live in 'it'll count them all in then later count them all out' axle counter territory but I'll say nothing about the wider 'signalling' system and loss of capability which has come with the axle counters.) I do remember hearing of a problem with track circuits and steel sleepers caused by the rail pad manufacturers using carbon as an additive to the pads to make them firmer. As for steel sleepers sliding sideways that was more of a problem with the original crimp ended design, more recent types have large spade ends to help stop that sort of thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Not quite main line I'll admit but a lot of the rail in Boston station has been replaced in the last few months. Existing sleepers and chairs, newly installed bull head rail. No idea if they're going to do the same to the west but quite a lot of the sleepers between the station and docks junction look pretty well life expired. Spotted what appears to be a brand new length of bullhead near the buffers of platform 1 at Hayes ...... that's Hayes ( Kent ) to the uninitiated ................ no idea why just a single (?) length needed replacing. ( Sorry if this is even further off the MAIN line topic ! ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark axlecounter Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Bh 60ft panels on the down line between horrocksford and Hellifield. The up is cwr fb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Spotted what appears to be a brand new length of bullhead near the buffers of platform 1 at Hayes ...... that's Hayes ( Kent ) to the uninitiated ................ no idea why just a single (?) length needed replacing. ( Sorry if this is even further off the MAIN line topic ! ) Star crack in a fishplate bolthole - ultrasonic rail defect ......................... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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