truffy Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) So, £20:80, minus £16:99, leaves me with what? £3:81? Assuming by that, and that I like 50-wagon trains, means I'm into break even by wagon 5-6. Not really. Andy was factoring in 10.60 for paint and cement (which go a looooooong way) and 8.75 for transfers (which will service many models, and might be sourced elsewhere). This is getting very silly. Edited February 22, 2018 by truffy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) So, £20:80, minus £16:99, leaves me with what? £3:81? Assuming by that, and that I like 50-wagon trains, means I'm into break even by wagon 5-6. Of course, as you will note, that there is diminishing asset stock as you work through your wagons. The prospect of a prototypical wagon rake in 4mm runs in at £1,000, unless you like short trip work, where you'll see a 9f, with 3-4 on. A daunting prospect indeed. I can't crib however. My 'ideal' is a big lizzie, with the usual 16 coaches on. The piggy bank will get a pasting.... Ian. As soon as you start amassing the stock for anything approaching scale-length trains, it starts getting financially scary quite quickly. I'm currently working on the last two wagons for a coal train that will (at this stage) amount to 24 wagons, all Bachmann, all with their resin loads on home-made tip-up bases to facilitate running loaded or empty, all fitted with Gibson wheels and (non-NEM) Kadee couplings and transported/stored in 12-compartment Hunersdorff plastic boxes lined with 6mm inert high-density foam cut to size by yours truly. Now, I bought many of these wagons a while ago for around half what they cost now but, at today's prices, each of my boxfuls would add up to over £300. I already have the basic wagons to fill another box and might decide to go for 48 eventually, so potentially getting on for £1300 in the end plus brake van and a loco to pull them. My idea is to have a suitable loco and brake from each of the BR regions to run with the set so, 48 wagons, four locos and four brake vans, plus safe storage/carriage - something in the region of £2k all told. Now, about that Home Insurance policy.............. John Edited February 23, 2018 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Railroad a4 is has an appalling inaccurate tender. Buyer's choice (so long as you know about it, and if you don't, does it matter?) either way, you get what you pay for............. Edited February 22, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I believe tomparryharry was complaining about prices of Railroad wagons. And I agree. Most of them should be about £8 at most. Same goes for some of the old tat that is still in the Dapol range. Half of them are well over forty years old and look it. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) I believe tomparryharry was complaining about prices of Railroad wagons. And I agree. Most of them should be about £8 at most. Same goes for some of the old tat that is still in the Dapol range. Half of them are well over forty years old and look it. Jason The better half of the Dapol range is 40 years old (Airfix) and much of the rest is a lot older (Hornby Dublo, the bodies at any rate) Presumably, they sell well enough at the current prices, otherwise new batches wouldn't crop-up in the New Arrivals web-page of Hatton's et al every couple of weeks. Incidentally, a good few Hornby wagons share Airfix ancestry with some of Dapol's. The people to blame are those that keep buying them. John Edited February 22, 2018 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Oh I can see there is still a market for them. Just as long as they keep the prices reasonable. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Yes. But do you buy things at RRP? I certainly don't. Especially when most retailers are falling over themselves trying to sell you things. I would also guess that most people that can find the Hornby website can use Google and look for better prices elsewhere. Jason No, I don't. However, whatever may be found at various retailers seems to be in spite of Hornby's pricing policy, not because of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Streak Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) Railroad a4 is has an appalling inaccurate tender. I agree with you David, yet when you and I look at it, We are seeing them through the eyes of those with a little more knowledge than Joe Public. When you look at one through the eyes of little Johhny or Jane who just got one for Xmas, it looks pretty damn good especially when He / She compares it to the smoky joe that came in the set that arrived on their Birthday. (Despite all the doom and gloom, kids are still getting trains every Xmas) As long as the price stays well below that of the Premium Range version and Hornby don't try and glam it up and pass it off as a full fat product, then that's just fine I say. They are perfectly acceptable for what they are - entry level trains. What I think was an appalling state of affairs, is what I previously wrote about the Tornado (cant say Peppercorn A1 , because there's differences anyway) and P2 models that came out in the Design Clever era when they tried to flog them in both ranges with mainly enhanced paint jobs for the high end. They were very good for the trainset market in their basic form, yet horrible in their "enhanced" form when We placed them next to our other Main Range engines. The A1 is covered by Baccy for those who want a full fat version (although wrong for Tornado if one wants to get fussy) which doesn't help Hornby. The P2 will only ever be good enough for the Railroad range, until the day (if ever) it gets retooled to be of a Main Range standard, then it will be okay to market it as such. Which brings us back full circle. Although there's a Market for full fat premium models (with higher price) and a market for railroad quality (budget). One set of tools for both ranges (ie Hornby's "design clever") just doesn't work. Agreed the A4 has the same basic body / chassis but the railroad version's tooling and paint are simplified from the main range - not the other way around like DC was. There are still two distinctly separate sets of tools Make the Main Range as excellent as the market wants and then make the Railroad version (which I would argue is a different buying demographic) more streamlined and affordable. I believe that is the direction Hornby have started to head down now, but it won't happen overnight. They need to work through what stays and what goes. For example, now they have introduced the new Duchess, do they simplify the old version and put it in to the Railroad range or get rid of it so it doesn't pinch sales from the new one? The railroad range is already flooded with older tooling, can it sustain anymore or which ones get dropped to make room for it. I am sure with the soul searching that has gone on at Hornby as of late and with all the revamping that is going on there, all these discussions are ongoing behind closed doors. The design Clever models didn't put Hornby into the mire they found themselves in, but it did little to help them extricate them from it when they were looking for a magic bullet. I believe that a new broom is going through at Hornby and (if they survive the next few years) what We will see come through gradually will be a complete 180 from what went on there previously (there's glimpses of it already). If We are going to talk about name changes to the product line (which has probably bought it way OT). Then I would think just name the Railroad segment "Hornby Trains" or similar because that's what it's market knows - Hornby is the name for model trains when you speak to Joe Public in most of it's markets. (As is Scalextric in the 1/32 slotcar market). Go up to 100 random people on the street in the UK or Oz and ask them to name a model railway brand and a slot car brand and I bet at least 75% say those two names! The kind of person that read RMWeb or buys a more than a few premium versions would be more aware of any industry name changes so you could market the pricey versions as whatever you wanted, because that demographic would most likely be well aware of it. (You can't call it Hornby Premium or something because then Mum and dad may wonder whats wrong with the Basic Hornby). Perhaps XXXX (insert name) by Hornby (note smaller script). You'd want Mum and Dad to understand they are getting a quality product in "Hornby Trains" but XXXX by Hornby is what the serious grown up modellers and collectors) buy. But I'm sure there's people at Hornby looking into all that too. Back to the OP 's original question- Time to bring back design clever? My response is - No way would that be okay, ever !!!! Someone get an exorcist and make sure it's dead forever Edited February 23, 2018 by The Blue Streak 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I am not overly well versed on what happens in the US but do Atlas not have three separate, well defined ranges of locomotive models? Atlas do not seem to have a bad rep, far from it - so it is possible to match different strokes for different folks 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Streak Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) I am not overly well versed on what happens in the US but do Atlas not have three separate, well defined ranges of locomotive models? Atlas do not seem to have a bad rep, far from it - so it is possible to match different strokes for different folks Separate Well defined ranges, being the magic statement. Is there any cross over models between the ranges and if so, is it through the dumbing down of the quality products to fit into the lesser ranges (which isn't a bad thing as long as the price mirrors that) or is through tarting up a lesser model in a pretty dress and still charging a premium price even though the basic model is still a lesser quality (aka Hornby Design Clever)? A good question you've raised however. Edited February 23, 2018 by The Blue Streak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) Separate Well defined ranges, being the magic statement. Is there any cross over models between the ranges and if so, is it through the dumbing down of the quality products to fit into the lesser ranges (which isn't a bad thing as long as the price mirrors that) or is through tarting up a lesser model in a pretty dress and still charging a premium price even though the basic model is still a lesser quality (aka Hornby Design Clever)? A good question you've raised however. In my experience, the basic Atlas Trainman range is older models, most of which are not DCC-ready. It includes locomotives and freighcars. Liveries are less complex. Also, Bachmann in the US is entirely 'railroad' standard and mainly trainset market. It should be remembered, however, that several North American ranges were setting higher standards of detail long before British manufacturers did, but that US modellers were more willing to accept models without railroad-specific details, or indeed locomotive types in liveries of railroads that never ran that type. In the UK, an LNER 'N2' in GWR livery was only just acceptable in the 1930s. Such anomalies were commonplace in the US until the 21st century and, indeed, there are still many in the trainset ranges, though the cost of licensing certain popular railroad brands has seen some liveries go out of favour for all but the top of range models where the extra costs can be recouped. (CJL) Edited February 23, 2018 by dibber25 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) Obver the years, I have notice that there are 3 different markets wordwide. The USA market(low cost?), the continental market(high price) and the UK market(somewhere in the middle). As Hornby and Bachmann have fingers in all 3 markets, it is intersting to compare how they price for each market, especially as the models are produced in same factories, so woyld expect manufacting costs to be simlar. Continental prices are still higher and for higher detail, the price is going up more. UK prices are catching up. USA prices seem to be going up, but still cheaper(sometimes helped by large number of variations of same models done). Licensed products(Thomas) seem to have a large extra cost added, sometimes for models first produced by Mainline(Palitoy). When I was runnng shop 10 years ago the rep told me that Hornby cross subsidised some new models by upping price on older ones. You can only do this for so long, and I think that milestone has now been passed. The Railroad range was possiblyly as attempt at this, but those prices are now going up even quicker. Not helped when Hornbmodify older models which don't need modifying, then have a problem such as what happened recently with the ex Airfix autotank. Investing in a properly compatible standard coupling would be better(certainlyfor real modellers). There is a big gap growing between the r2r models(collectors?) and those modellers are happy with. The kit market is shrinking. Chris has said fewer are now building models or sctatchbuilding, and uses that as one reason for not now having scale drawings like MRC used to, and now one reason why old copies are still sought. 3D printing is now firmly in the market, and I aim my designs , principally at modellers, some of whom either can't, or prefer not to build complex kits these days. From feedback(certainly narrow gauge modellers), there are still a lot of modellers out there who like my appoach. Higher costs for r2r models also make 3D printing look more reasonal, certainly for small and big scales. OO and HO unfortunately are not so competitive, but rising prices for r2r(and kit) models means that 3D printing is getting more competive. You also get the satisfaction of creating something, not just opening a box and puting trains on track. Definitely not aiming at the collectors. Edited February 23, 2018 by rue_d_etropal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dickerson Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 In my experience, the basic Atlas Trainman range is older models, most of which are not DCC-ready. It includes locomotives and freighcars. Liveries are less complex. Also, Bachmann in the US is entirely 'railroad' standard and mainly trainset market. It should be remembered, however, that several North American ranges were setting higher standards of detail long before British manufacturers did, but that US modellers were more willing to accept models without railroad-specific details, or indeed locomotive types in liveries of railroads that never ran that type. In the UK, an LNER 'N2' in GWR livery was only just acceptable in the 1930s. Such anomalies were commonplace in the US until the 21st century and, indeed, there are still many in the trainset ranges, though the cost of licensing certain popular railroad brands has seen some liveries go out of favour for all but the top of range models where the extra costs can be recouped. (CJL) Hmm. I'm not sure if they still really separate out Spectrum, but while I acknowledge "generic" models at even their highest standards, I can't see e.g. Bachmann's $399.00 2-truck Climax adequately described as Railroad. Even their more recent Trainman-like releases e.g. GP7 have DCC and a pretty good central flywheel drive, and while their Alco 2-6-0 is Railroad-level detail, IMO it exceeds their steam mechanisms from the ones I've seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Hmm. I'm not sure if they still really separate out Spectrum, but while I acknowledge "generic" models at even their highest standards, I can't see e.g. Bachmann's $399.00 2-truck Climax adequately described as Railroad. Even their more recent Trainman-like releases e.g. GP7 have DCC and a pretty good central flywheel drive, and while their Alco 2-6-0 is Railroad-level detail, IMO it exceeds their steam mechanisms from the ones I've seen. I'll re-word my sentence, then: Also, Bachmann in the US is LARGELY 'railroad' standard and mainly trainset market. Bachmann does have other ranges, too, such as the O16.5 narrow gauge models and its Spectrum range but they are not nearly as prominent in the marketplace as its basic trainset items, whereas I would feel that Hornby's Railroad range is less prominent than its 'full-fat' range - and all but non-existent in major toy stores. (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2018 I am not overly well versed on what happens in the US but do Atlas not have three separate, well defined ranges of locomotive models? Atlas do not seem to have a bad rep, far from it - so it is possible to match different strokes for different folks JJB1970 often quotes Piko in Europe as having clearly delineated ranges. It is possible . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Obver the years, I have notice that there are 3 different markets wordwide. The USA market(low cost?), the continental market(high price) and the UK market(somewhere in the middle). ... Continental prices are still higher and for higher detail, the price is going up more. UK prices are catching up. USA prices seem to be going up, but still cheaper(sometimes helped by large number of variations of same models done). I would not categorize US prices as "low cost". There certainly are different levels of detail available at different pricing levels. Given all the detail differences in locomotives, perhaps coaches are the easiest apples/apples comparison point. A typical, new, higher-end plastic US coach model will have a RRP for about $75 - $80. (['m not including high-end brass coaches.) Hornby coaches at around £50 / $70 are still slightly cheaper than this. Only recently have British prices (with items like the Bachmann SECR Birdcage coaches) exceeded the average price of US coaches (I am using a RRP for the birdcage coaches of £65 / $90 for this comparison.) Most of the US steam locomotives are more expensive than Hornby pricing for large steam locomotives. RRP for sound equipped Pacific locomotives can easily be in the range of $350. They are however more detailed. Generally speaking there is more exposed pipe work, hand rails, etc on the US prototypes and this, I suspect, drove a much higher detailing standard for many years. (The sound-equipped Hornby Princess Coronation has an RRP of about £220 / $307.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 JJB1970 often quotes Piko in Europe as having clearly delineated ranges. It is possible . Most of the US manufacturers have as many as three ranges in plastic: Athearn: Genesis, Ready-to-Roll, Roundhouse Walthers: Proto, Mainline, Trainline Atlas: Master, Classic*, Trainman * retooled, older models There are other brass and hybrid plastic/brass lines as well. In plastic, Broadway Limited Imports scaled back to their Paragon3 range, which I would describe as comparable to Athearn Genesis. Bachmann has their "Spectrum" high-end line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2018 There is no reason at all why a multi-tiered range can't work. As has been pointed out, it is quite common in the US market, Piko have done it very successfully in Europe (to the point that they're really eating into the serious enthusiast market once held by companies like Roco whilst maintaining their lower cost offerings) and if managed well it could work for Hornby. The new generation Railroad tooling isn't as good as the full fat range (whatever Hornby may have tried to claim at the time of design clever) but models like the A1, Hall, Mk.1 coach etc are very good and I suspect there are plenty of serious hobbyists who are very happy with them. If Railroad and Hornby main range were properly targeted and developed I think it could work well. The problem with Railroad seems to be that it veers between the Crosti 9F at one extreme through to models like Smokie Joe and the Lima Deltic at the other. I see no reason why Railroad couldn't be split into something like Railroad start and Railroad hobby, Piko have three HO levels and some US suppliers cover the whole spectrum too. The US market has changed as much as ours. I remember the old Athearn blue box models, Roundhouse, AHM etc which were basic (to be polite). Until the early 90's I don't think US plastic was any better than OO for the most part. What the NA market did have was a thriving brass scene with importers such as Overland, Challenger, Oriental, Key, PSC, Hallmark, PFM etc working with companies such as Ajin, Samhongsa, Tenshodo, KTM, Microcast Mizuno, Fujiyama etc to produce models of exceptional finish and fine detail. And unlike European brass the American brass suppliers were not peddling collectors items for the well heeled, OK they were at the top end of the price scale (although significantly cheaper than models made by the same manufacturers for the likes of Fulgurex and Lemaco) but they were nevertheless a part of the mainstream model hobby and intended to be used. The market that most seem to be oblivious too, model trains are a huge hobby in Japan and companies like Tomix and Kato produce models of exceptional quality in huge numbers. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarnish1 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 The US "premium HO brass models" come from Overland Models. The best are claimed to come from the 1980's onward. Superb but very pricey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2018 The US "premium HO brass models" come from Overland Models. The best are claimed to come from the 1980's onward. Superb but very pricey. Overland models were primarily manufactured by Ajin, they made models from many eras, steam, diesel and electric, locomotives and rolling stock but I think it's fair to say that it their line was diesels, and modern diesels at that. They were beautifully made however Ajin had a rather particular drive system which used individual gear boxes for each axle and because the gear box housings were made of Mazak it means that models which are all brass except for these housings can suffer Mazak rot. The system gave the bogies an excellent side profile free of the rectangular block of most drive systems which can detract from models if looked at from the right angle and if looked from the underside it actually gave a pretty good impression of them being bo-bo or co-co models. Ajin also manufactured for Division Point among others. For all that, Overland were far from being unique and if you like steam then importers like WR, PFM and Glacier Park produced some magnificent models. If looking at more modern brass UTI and Division Point have made some fabulous models. Some of the old classic brass models from importers like Akane look a bit basic but they were strong runners. I know I've name checked this one already, but if people want to see how good US brass HO was in the 70's you need to see the NYC Hudson's made for Westside by Microcast Mizuno. On price, these models aren't cheap but if you bide your time you can find some beautiful pieces at reasonable prices (reasonable being a relative term as I suspect most people would let rip with an expletive). With the increasing prices of HO plastic the differential between that and classic brass is nothing like as high as you might think. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) Dont forget population. The US represents a demographic of 350million people, used to seeing a very standardised railroad system, a relatively stable economy and higher than global average disposable income. The UK represents a demographic of 60 million with a very bespoke railway system with a good disposable income. Europe (-UK) represents a demographic of 440million but railways becomes fragmented, standards largely derive from post war WW2 German classes, then standardised railways depending on country size, but crucially each country has differing levels of disposable income. This affects each market. Even if 0.05% of each of Europe, Uk and US were interested in railways, you have : 175k US enthusiasts with an average disposable income of $44k/ £31k / 36k € * 30k^ UK enthusiasts with an average disposable income of $38k / £27k / 31k € ** 220k EU enthusiasts with an average disposable income of $29k / £21k / 23k €. *** (Of which Germany would represent 41k (20% of EU) enthusiasts with the same disposable income as the UK). With post war railways as a guide, the US has the least variety of classes, produced in higher numbers, and the UK has probably the widest variety due to lack of standards and bespoke nature of building designs custom to routes, where as Europe has a high degree of national variety post war supplanted the the preceded by German designs. So : In the US you have less variety sold to more enthusiasts with highest amount to spend... greater volume..lower cost..more customers In the UK you have most variety sold to the least enthusiasts with a higher average amount to spend.. lower volume, highest cost, least customers In the EU you have the a large variety with the most enthusiasts, with with the lowest amount to spend This could translate into.. The US has a full range of models with most liveries at the best scale economy on cost for the biggest market..ROI is very fast allowing for greater margin or ability to manoeuvre for competition. The UK has a full range of models at the worst scale economy on cost and smallest market so a short amortisation to full full the demand. The EU has a good range of models at a good economy with a fragmented market but less spending requires a long amortisation and investment cycle to get ROI. Germany is much like the US with standard designs Against that background is easier to see the proliferation of “safer” German prototypes from a country with higher than average EU disposable income, and probably influences its neighbours prototypes too due to proximity, and why at a higher price point they tend to have a longer ROI accordingly, people want models, but have to save for longer to afford them, which I turn affects the financing costs of the tooling.. similarly why there’s nil Bulgarian/Greek prototypes. The anomaly is a France (isn’t it always), one would expect a greater variety of models given the spending power, one assumes they just don’t like model railways, but given the only expenditure SNCF has done in 40years is the TGV one could understand things being a bit stale. ^ it’s worth noting this forums home page says 33k members. * https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyearending2017 ** http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/united-states/ *** http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&pcode=sdg_10_20&plugin=1 Edited February 23, 2018 by adb968008 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) ... The US represents a demographic of 350million people, used to seeing a very standardised railroad system, a relatively stable economy and higher than global average disposable income. ... With post war railways as a guide, the US has the least variety of classes, produced in higher numbers, and the UK has probably the widest variety due to lack of standards and bespoke nature of building designs custom to routes, where as Europe has a high degree of national variety post war supplanted the the preceded by German designs. ... (My emphasis.) I make no argument with your comments about relative market size but you make very sweeping generalizations about "standardization" in the US that I don't think hold a lot of merit. While there were periods of standardization - like the USRA during the late part of the first world war, US railroads in the early 20th century had anything but 'standardized' designs, even if smaller roads were supplied by the likes of Baldwin, Alco or Lima. There were many, many more companies, and the larger roads built their own equipment. It is certainly true that once the last gasp of steam experiments faded in the 1950s there were only a few remaining locomotive manufacturers, but conflating the whole of the model railway experience in the US to your generalities is misleading. Even after the mega mergers the variety of livery versions is pretty extensive. (This is well represented by the Norfolk Southern heritage locomotives liveries and I presume this the sort of thing that you mean in terms of 'standardization' but these are not preservation attempts.) For generations, the manufacturers of models for the US market produced inaccurate liveries on a small set of base models with an enormous number of examples of 'never ran in this condition' models. While some of that still goes on, much of what has happened in the 21st century is accurate models in relatively accurate livery combinations. If you picked a small, but high-profile example of streamlined express steam passenger locomotives in the 1930s/1940s, in Britain there were essentially about a half dozen or so designs (if you include 'air smoothed'), most of which have been recently modeled in RTR. In the US I suspect that number is well over two dozen, most of which have been modeled in RTR and several of these were 'one offs'. Edited February 23, 2018 by Ozexpatriate 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2018 The big US steam locomotive builders Alco, Baldwin and Lima specialised in batch production of bespoke designs tailored to the needs of customers, however they were extremely smart in utilising a range of standardised components (although standardised in the context of early 20th century kettles probably isn't quite the same as standardised in modern terms) to offer 1000's of different designs optimised for particular operational and environmental requirements, many of which were built in tiny numbers. Ironically, this flexibility and ability to respond to unique requirements with bespoke designs which was such a strength worked against them in the dieselisation period when standard designs and series production replaced small batch custom building. The economics of developing diesel locomotives meant that custom building didn't make sense and EMD demonstrated that if the product was right operators would adapt to the technology rather than expecting a new technology to fit their existing operating philosophy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2018 In a further irony the wheel has almost turned full circle and now once again successful builders use a standardised tool box and basic platforms to put bespoke packages together quickly and efficiently, optimised for particular requirements. Hence the success of platforms like Desiro, Electrostar, ES64, Traxx etc which can be adjusted to meet individual requirements whilst still leveraging streamlined production. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 24, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2018 Another issue to be aware of if people are thinking of dipping a toe into the world of brass is that Ajin used plastic ball joints in their cardan shaft drive which are notorious for failing. You will see a lot of Overland models advertised as having upgraded soldered brass ball replacements, it's a worthwhile upgrade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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