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Eveleigh Creations - Great Eastern 4 & 6-Wheel Coaches


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Thank you to Andy York for kindly agreeing to a new product post.

 

David Eveleigh, at Eveleigh Creations, is a small supplier who produces exquisite hand-painted backscenes and some 2mm Scale etched kits. He also takes commissions for etches.

 

As his range includes some 2mm Great Eastern 4-wheel coaches (see pictures below), we discussed the possibility of producing them in 4mm.  I have also raised the question of producing some GER Holden 6-wheelers, with the idea that these could be produced once the 4-wheelers are done.

 

The coaches will only be produced if there is sufficient interest to justify the minimum volume, hence I asked Andy if we could canvass interest here, and David has asked me to post the following announcement:

 

I have been in correspondence about the possibility of providing etched kits for sides, ends and roofs for Great Eastern Railway four and six wheeled coaches in 4 mm scale.   I have already produced kits in 2 mm scale for the diagram 401 five compartment four wheeled third, the diagram 501 two compartment brake third and the diagram 101 four compartment first, measuring from extant coach bodies.   I am thinking of making available in 4 mm scale  kits for the coach bodies comprising sides, ends with integral head-stocks, roofs, sole-bar overlays, drop-lights, ventilators and end footsteps.    They would be to the correct dimensions and with the idea of using the longer wheelbase Ratio injection moulded GWR coach kit to provide the under-frame.   I would be able to do the four wheeled coaches for £25 each and would need firm orders with a deposit for at least 14 coach body kits in order to proceed.

 
I need to gauge demand and so would invite you to contact me via my website: 

http://eveleighcreations.com/

 

Depending on how many people contact me I would initially offer the first and third class coaches, following on if there were sufficient sales with the brake third.
 
If the demand is there I would also like to do the four Holden six wheeled coaches:  34'6" Brake Third (Dia.514);  34'6" 6-Compartment Thirds (Dia. 404);  32' Centre Luggage Compartment 4-Compartment Composite (D219);  and 32' Full Brakes (Dias.513 or 516).   The cost of having masks and initial etches for new sheets is considerable, however, so these later items will depend on sufficient sales of the former to finance them.
 
Please have a look at my website for examples of my work

 

4-Wheelers

 

The 4-wheelers date from the 1870s and I would think that they were built for suburban work. However, Holden renewed the suburban 4-wheel stock with large numbers of new coaches towards the end of  the Nineteenth Century.  I believe that older 4-wheelers then found there way on to branch lines and a considerable number were sold off in the 1900-1904.  Purchasers of GE stock included minor independent railways, colliery lines and Light Railways of the Colonel Stephens ilk, so these are ideal for freelance Light Railway or industrial projects.

 

Another use for them would be to replicate the large number of grounded coach bodies used by the GER to provide platform shelters and ancillary buildings at many rural locations on its system.  Many bodies are preserved because many became homes during the Edwardian period. 

 

The kits would comprise sides, ends roof and a fascia representing the wooden solebars, and he intends to reproduce the brake Third, 5-Compt. Third and 4-Compt. First.

 

The body style features characteristic GER round tops to the window lights and panels, and features raised beading on the waists.  This is a very 1860s-1870s style, which the Great Eastern perpetuated into the 1880s. Originally varnished teak, when they became to shabby to retain the varnished finish, they were painted in GE coach brown, which appears to have been a slightly reddish brown. A preserved example of a coach finished in this way is the  GER First Class Smoking Carriage of 1863 on the Mid-Suffolk (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/122868-ex-works-y6-paint-scheme/?p=2726273).

 

When built these would probably have been oil lit (the first Pintsch gas lit suburban stock was built from 1877), but I understand that they were later converted to gas.

 

Guy Rixon has very kindly responded to requests for GER coach fittings by producing 3D printed accessories, so GER buffer shanks (https://www.shapeways.com/product/B3P8ABL24/ger-coach-buffers-x20?optionId=61554189) and Pintsch gas lamp tops (https://www.shapeways.com/product/LGP9KVLAC/pintsch-gas-lamps-x20?optionId=61657147) are available from his Shapeways shop.

 

6-wheelers

 

These are Holden type 5 coaches, built in the 1886-1896 period (the types are these defined by John Watling in a series of excellent articles available on the GERS website: https://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/rolling-stock/carriages/types-5-8).

 

Holden Type 5s were built to standardised lengths.  By this period, the beaded waist panels had been replaced by rounded ended recessed waist panels.  The window lights and vertical panels have large radius top corners. I believe that D&S at one stage produced the 6-Compt. Third, but generally the old D&S range of GE 6-wheelers featured the next generation of Holden types, Type 7A, built from 1896-1898.  The Type 7A were "square lights", i.e. the windows have right-angled, non-radial corners.  Whereas the Square Light 6-wheelers had Lavatory Composites and 5-Compt. Lav. Thirds, the Type 5s had Luggage Composites and 6-Compt. Thirds.  

 

Built as mainline general service coaches, photographic evidence suggests that the Type 5s were in service in large numbers for a prolonged period, though my interest/research is confined to the pre-Grouping era, so I don't know now long they lasted. 

 

Bill King of the GERS has very kindly directed me to the Stratford Works drawings for the following:

 

34'6" Brake Third (Dia.514);  

 

34'6" 6-Compartment Third (Dia. 404);  

 

32' Centre Luggage Compartment 4-Compartment Composite (D219);  

 

32' Full Brakes (Dias.516)

 

These would be the intended kits.

 

Guy Rixon already produces a 3D-print accessory sprue for GER 6-wheel coaches that would be suitable.  Included are springs (with the centre springs on 'J' hangers), axle boxes, buffer shanks and Pintsch gas lamp tops: https://www.shapeways.com/product/8DZ6QHBP7/ger-6w-coach-fittings-set-a?optionId=64070109

 

Please can any one interested in the production of these models please get in touch with David Eveleigh, and please let me know.

 .  

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Here is an interesting picture of the sort of body style that these 4-wheelers would have, beautifully preserved as part of someone's sitting room in a house made from two coaches placed side by side, a not uncommon fate for such coaches.

post-25673-0-06603300-1519134389.jpg

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Looks interesting - possibly a bit early for my interest period though (1935-39).

 

Thanks.

 

It depends on what and where you model, because the late '30s are certainly not too late to see the 4-wheelers running second-hand on a Light Railway or Colliery line.

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Yes please.

I'd take a whole train of 4 wheelers and two of 6 wheelers.

 

Just one suggestion. Wouldn't it make sense to start with a brake? At least then you can make up a valid train. Although the 6 wheelers can at least be mixed with the D&S models of later period.

 

Gryff

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Yes please.

I'd take a whole train of 4 wheelers and two of 6 wheelers.

 

Just one suggestion. Wouldn't it make sense to start with a brake? At least then you can make up a valid train. Although the 6 wheelers can at least be mixed with the D&S models of later period.

 

Gryff

 

Gryff, thank you very much for your interest. 

 

All production decisions are down to David, so I cannot answer your specific question.  The 4-wheelers are coming first because David has already done these in 2mm, and, so, has the accurate measurements already.  He has taken these from extant examples. 

 

This means, by the way, that all the panel and beading is accurate.  I cannot be sure of this with any other manufacturers, because the Stratford diagram drawings typically do not show any moulded detail, the only thing they show are the bare outlines of the door and window lights.  In any case, access to the prototype is always going to be best.  The advantage is that David's will be a matching set, all the relief detail being both accurate and consistent. 

 

As things are arranged, David intends to fund the 6-wheelers by selling the 4-wheelers; i.e. rather than simply banking the proceeds, he is willing to re-invest them to fund the 6-wheelers.

 

The alternative is to commission David to make the 6-wheelers, but I certainly do not have the funds necessary for this, which is why the 4-wheelers need to come first. David has elected to make the First and Third first, so if you are interested, please put down a £10 deposit for however many of each you would like, and we will be further on towards the magic 14 that we need to start the process. 

 

Please contact him via his website: http://eveleighcreations.com/

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I believe some of the 4 wheel type passed to the LDEC for miners' trains, and would have passed to the GC in 1907. How long they lasted I don't know; I wish I did!

 

Yes, you are quite right. I have a whole list of railways that used ex-GE 4-wheelers, compiled from Kidner's book.  What I am not in a position to say is which railway ran which diagram.  Only further research into each line could reveal who was using these particular prototypes. 

 

So, I post this only as a guide to show the sorts of lines that used these or similar ex-GE coaches.  It should give the freelancer plenty of inspiration, though.  Please bear in mind the caveats about who ran exactly what, but this should be of some interest. 

 

I quote from R W Kidner, Carriage Stock of Minor Standard Gauge Railways:

 
A number of short four-wheelers (2 and 3 compt. brakes, four-compt. 1sts and 5-compt. 3rds.) were sold from 1900 on.  Later on one or two 6w. carriages and full brake were sold.
 
Ex-GER carriages were operated by the following lines: East Kent, Isle of Wight Central, Kent & East Sussex, Lancashire Derbyshire & East Coast, Millwall Extension, North Sunderland, Shropshire & Montgomeryshire, South Shields Marsden & Whitburn Colliery, Stratford & Midland, Weston Clevedon & Portishead, Neath & Brecon, S. Wales Mineral.
 
The East Kent had a 4-wheel 4-compt. 1st, purchased c.1919
 
Isle of Wight Central had six 4-wheel 5-compt. Thirds
 
K&ESR had:
- Two 4-wheel 2-compt. Brake Thirds (purchased 1901 and 1906)
- Two 4-wheel 3-compt.  Brake Thirds (purchased 1901 and 1906)
- Two 4-wheel 4-compt. 1sts (purchased 1901 and 1906)
 
LDECR had:
- 4-wheel 5-compt. Third (24') (purchased 1896)
- 4-wheel 2-compt. Brake Third  (21'8") (purchased 1896)
 
Mid-Suffolk had a 4-wheel Brake (in preservation it runs some very similar coaches)
 
S&MR had an ex-K&ESR 3-compt.  Brake Third in 1938
 
South Shields had (1926-1938): 
- Two 4-wheel 2-compt. Brake Thirds
-  4-wheel 5-compt. Third
 
South Wales Mineral had at least 7 ex-GER 4-wheelers
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Yes please.

I'd take a whole train of 4 wheelers and two of 6 wheelers.

 

Just one suggestion. Wouldn't it make sense to start with a brake? At least then you can make up a valid train. Although the 6 wheelers can at least be mixed with the D&S models of later period.

 

Gryff

Gryff

I think its a simple answer : for David to test the concept of providing etches to put on Ratio GWR underframes and produce a carriage as accurate as possible then since the 1st and 3rd are 26 foot with 15 foot 3 inch w/b which means taking a GWR brake 3rd (30 foot long 19 foot w/b) removing 16mm from the centre of the chassis gives 26 foot with 15 foot w/b - simple and not far off.  More bodies fit on the etch sheet making development more cost efficient as well.  Good demand and feedback for these first coaches makes it worth producing the GER Brake 3rd which will require more underframe surgery as it is a 22'8" underframe with 13'6" w/b.  Or is there a commercially available cheap chassis similar to the ratio ones with a better length vs w/b for the Brake? I model early GER in 2mm FS so dont know the 4mm market very well.

Regards

Jon

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Thank you to those who have already taken the plunge.  By way of an update from David, the First and Third are prepared and ready to go off to the etchers, but David has decided that he will do all three at once, and the Brake Third is alsoi an advanced stage of preparation.

 

So, please note that all three 4-wheelers will be made together and David will accept deposits for all three, i.e.

 

Brake Third

 

Third

 

First

 

Thank you

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By way of an update, David Eveleigh tells me he has now sent the drawings for the First Class, Third Class and Brake Third four-wheel coaches off to the etchers.

 

Thank you.

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A further update and more information may now be found on David's website, here: http://eveleighcreations.com/4-mm-ger-coach-bodies/

 

David is still taking pre-orders, with the artwork approved by the etchers and delivery of all three coaches anticipated for this summer.

Good! I've already preordered one third (diagram 401)!

 

Buffers and lamps from Guy Rixon can be used, but what about axleboxes and springs for the 4-wheelers, what are the possibilities?

 

Carlos

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Good! I've already preordered one third (diagram 401)!

 

Buffers and lamps from Guy Rixon can be used, but what about axleboxes and springs for the 4-wheelers, what are the possibilities?

 

Carlos

 

David is, I think, assuming people will use adapted Ratio 4-wheel frames, which come with moulded axlebox/springs/W Irons. Note the Ratio 4-wheelers are for steel u/fs prototypes, IIRC, so you cut back the solebars and overlay David's brass fascia, which represents the deep wooden solebars of the GER coaches.

 

I have bought some of these separately from Peco in the past.  Small sprues were £2.50, but that is just for one side, so £5.00 per coach.  The alternative is to scratch-build the frames/floor and use fold-up W Irons and cast springs and axleboxes.  There maybe something suitable in the MJT/Dart range.

 

 

 

I confess, I have yet to decide how I am going to build mine.

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I've put in for interest for a couple. How accurate would the ratio axle boxes etc be? Would the ones suggested for the 6 wheelers be closer, omitting the centre axles?

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I've put in for interest for a couple. How accurate would the ratio axle boxes etc be? Would the ones suggested for the 6 wheelers be closer, omitting the centre axles?

 

A good question.

 

I've had a look at a Ratio kit.  They seem to have 6' springs on 'J' hangers with dampers below.

 

If you cut the damper below the hanger off, it would look reasonable.

 

However, looking at the photograph and scale drawing I have of the (slightly earlier, 1867 GE Brake Third), it seems to me that these are 6'6" springs on leather straps. There is something like this in the Dart/MJT range, but annoyingly not available: http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2289.php

 

So, I dug out my drawing of a GE 6-wheeler, and I looked at Guy Rixon's outer springs.  These do, indeed, look to be a match, showing that not a lot had changed, spring-wise, in 30 years of GE coach development!

 

So, yes, I'd say your best match is to use Guy's outer springs that he designed for GE 6-wheel vehicles. 

 

Having looked at this, I think that is the way I will go with mine.   

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I've put in for interest for a couple. How accurate would the ratio axle boxes etc be? Would the ones suggested for the 6 wheelers be closer, omitting the centre axles?

 

A good question.

 

I've had a look at a Ratio kit.  They seem to have 6' springs on 'J' hangers with dampers below.

 

If you cut the damper below the hanger off, it would look reasonable.

 

However, looking at the photograph and scale drawing I have of the (slightly earlier, 1867 GE Brake Third), it seems to me that these are 6'6" springs on leather straps. There is something like this in the Dart/MJT range, but annoyingly not available: http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2289.php

 

So, I dug out my drawing of a GE 6-wheeler, and I looked at Guy Rixon's outer springs.  These do, indeed, look to be a match, showing that not a lot had changed, spring-wise, in 30 years of GE coach development!

 

So, yes, I'd say your best match is to use Guy's outer springs that he designed for GE 6-wheel vehicles. 

 

Having looked at this, I think that is the way I will go with mine.   

post-25673-0-03228300-1520190279_thumb.jpg

post-25673-0-25546800-1520190299_thumb.jpg

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I've got some of Guys springs already (For some Peter K 4 wheelers which is why I pondered it for these) - Guy recommended type A - Set B has J hangers for all springs.

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I've got some of Guys springs already (For some Peter K 4 wheelers which is why I pondered it for these) - Guy recommended type A - Set B has J hangers for all springs.

 

Yes, you'd need Set A to get the springs with the leather strap.  The 6-wheelers planned to follow would also use Set A.

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Thanks, Bucoops.

 

Here is the link to the set in Guy's Shapeways shop (I notice the sprue arrangement has changed since I bought mine): https://www.shapeways.com/product/8DZ6QHBP7/ger-6w-coach-fittings-set-a?optionId=64070109

 

With Guy's accessories, I would think that the enterprising modeller would, I think, only need to find couplings of choice, buffer heads and wheels to complete 

 

And here is an annotated picture of the Set A (that I couldn't find before!):

post-25673-0-70148800-1520417351_thumb.jpg

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