Eveleigh Creations - Great Eastern 4 & 6-Wheel Coaches

[Guy Rixon]

Epoxy glue sticks plastic ventilators to brass, so should be fine for printed ones.

 

With a little more information, I can draw something up soon. I need the following information.

 

1. Confirmation that these coaches have the later, 3-leaf ventilators, rather than the early, 4-leaf kind (in reference to your pictures on the other thread).

 

2. Dimensions of all the panels to be ventilated, giving the length and height of each panel inside the moulding. I'll set the gap between ventilator and moulding myself. I suspect that these prints will need to be matched to individual models, let alone coach diagrams, to get the gaps neat enough. Since I don't have the Eveleigh kits myself to check with, I'll need the measurements grouped by coach type.

 

3. Some consensus on how the prints should be grouped. Do you want one big print with all the types, or one print per Eveleigh kit? If one big print, how many of each size of vent would you want.

 

4. Advice on alignment and fixing aids. I have it in mind to draw the vents with pins on the back and to provide a template on the print for drilling holes in the brass to accept these pins; but perhaps that is unnecessary.  

[Bucoops]

Epoxy glue sticks plastic ventilators to brass, so should be fine for printed ones.

 

With a little more information, I can draw something up soon. I need the following information.

 

1. Confirmation that these coaches have the later, 3-leaf ventilators, rather than the early, 4-leaf kind (in reference to your pictures on the other thread).

 

2. Dimensions of all the panels to be ventilated, giving the length and height of each panel inside the moulding. I'll set the gap between ventilator and moulding myself. I suspect that these prints will need to be matched to individual models, let alone coach diagrams, to get the gaps neat enough. Since I don't have the Eveleigh kits myself to check with, I'll need the measurements grouped by coach type.

 

3. Some consensus on how the prints should be grouped. Do you want one big print with all the types, or one print per Eveleigh kit? If one big print, how many of each size of vent would you want.

 

4. Advice on alignment and fixing aids. I have it in mind to draw the vents with pins on the back and to provide a template on the print for drilling holes in the brass to accept these pins; but perhaps that is unnecessary.  

 

 

Guy, if I sent you an example would that be useful? With return postage of course.

[Guy Rixon]

Guy, if I sent you an example would that be useful? With return postage of course.

 

Rather than risking an actual etch in the post, how about a photocopy, or a printed scan, that's been checked to be accurate to scale?

[Edwardian]

Rather than risking an actual etch in the post, how about a photocopy, or a printed scan, that's been checked to be accurate to scale?

 

Guy, I have just PM'd you with a scan of the 3 Eveleigh Creations etches and one Peter K etch. 

 

I have also tried to answer the questions concerning vents; I think they are 4-leaf.

[Bucoops]

Guy, I have just PM'd you with a scan of the 3 Eveleigh Creations etches and one Peter K etch. 

 

I have also tried to answer the questions concerning vents; I think they are 4-leaf.

 

Oh nuts! I meant to do that at work this morning - thank you for that.

[Guy Rixon]

Some preliminary work shows promise.

 

This is not quite right yet. The dimensions have not yet been properly matched to the scan of the etch. The cross-section isn't quite right, either: I've drawn it as half-round for simplicity, but the sides of the vent should meet the side of the coach at an acute angle, not a right angle. These things will be fixed.

 

The vent is hollow, to contain the glue without it squeezing out around the edge.

 

I plan to offer these vents as a sprue of 40:

That is enough for a train of four four-wheeled coaches (of which one is the Peter K 3rd-brake with one compartment more than the Eveleigh brake), plus four vents spare in case of breakage. Spruing these parts is tricky and my suggested arrangement is the least-worst I can think off. It presumes that one can part off the vents with a chisel-bladed knife and then clean up with a file or emery board.

 

Shapeways' robot is not happy with the unsupported lip at the bottom of each vent and I may need a different strategy for making it hollow. This is not a problem.

 

The price for the sprue of 40 should be around £6 at current exchange, including tax and my mark-up.

[Guy Rixon]

Nearly done. The vent-panel interface now has a better angle, the method of representing the slots has been changed to correct the overall shape of the vent, and the robot reckons it will print without the delicate bits flaking off.

 

The finer angle at the edge of each vents means that I had to change the spruing. It will now necessary to clip the vents off the sprue with side-cutters and then sand the backs until they lie flat. This is more work for the builder (boo!) but there's now a much better chance of getting the vents off the sprue without breaking them (hurrah!).

 

To do: tune the principal dimensions based on the scan and tweak the positions of the slots between the vent leaves. 

 

 

[Edwardian]

Guy, these are looking good and it's very much appreciated.

[Guy Rixon]

I measured the above-door panels from the supplied scan of the etches. They're narrower relative to their length than I was expecting, and possible narrower than those in the example photos. However, measuring accurately from the scan is not easy, so I think I will have to run a test print and see how they come out.  

 

After adjustment, the vents now look like this:

The flat plate represents the coach side, to scale as etched, assuming the brass is 0.33mm thick. The printed vent should stick out about 0.6mm from the panel and about 0.45mm from the surrounding moulding, so definitely thicker than an etched part. The engraving on the vent shell is about 1.5 times the resolution limit in FUD/FXD, so I hope it will print properly.

 

I'll get a test print when I get the next batch of prints for my own work, which will probably happen next month. If anybody wants these things faster, then send me a PM and I'll send you the STL file so you can test-print it yourself.

[Edwardian]

Guy's vents.

 

My positioning is sloppy and it can be seen that I have failed to trim the sprue off properly, but it can be seen that they fit both the Eveleigh Creations and Peter Kay GER 4-wheeler sides. 

 

I washed the vents with ink, otherwise the detail would not have shown up at all.

 

Well done Guy and many thanks for producing these.  I understand they will be available via Shapeways shortly.

 

 

[Guy Rixon]

Vents are now on sale in my shop.

 

Current prices will apply until 2019 (give or take changes in exchange rate). After that, Shapeways' imposition of a minimum price in dollars* will raise the price in pounds to £7.76. To offset that horrible increase, I plan to increase the number of vents per print to 60 or 80. Probably nobody needs more than 40 vents, but please feel free to share or sell on any surplus.

 

 

*Minimum price for detail prints rises from about $3.00 to $7.50. I take $1.00 commission on each sale. Shapeways get all the extra money.

[Edwardian]

One from 1877 spotted today at Embsay ....

[Edwardian]

I should check my emails more often!

 

 David Eveleigh has made progress on the 6-wheel GER coaches, and has other interesting developments.  He has asked me to post the following news: 

 

I have finished the drawings now for the GER six wheeled coaches which people requested earlier in the year and they are ready for sending to the etchers for having test etches done.   They will be looking at these after Christmas and I hope to have them in my hands in what is still described as 'spring'.   I have designed kits for seven different six wheeled coach kits:  D404 Third,  D219 Luggage Composite,  D514 Brake Third,  D516 Full Brake,  D110 Lavatory Composite,  D10 Third Saloon and D105 First.

 

I have also adjusted my drawing for the Long Melford girder bridge, as seen on my website at http://eveleighcreations.com/etch-design/to provide a 4 mm scale version.   This allows for a clear span between abutments of 48 ft.   The original bridge was designed for single track however, so for a double track railway should be adjusted to remove the two centre panels.   The design is somewhat complex as the real girder was subtly curved along its top edge (as well as the flange plating being doubled and re-doubled, but I have done my best to make the assembly as straightforward as possible, labelling all of the individually dimensioned ribs and handrail supports.

 

I am thinking in the new year of adapting my drawings of the Wisbech tram coaches (both the four wheeled and bogie versions) in the light of a ready to run tram engine appearing.   My etch design is unique in that the characteristic 'hogging' (sagging down at the ends and up in the middle) of the real coaches is reproduced.   You can see the 2 mm scale examples here  http://eveleighcreations.com/test-page-2/models-made-from-my-etched-kits/

 

I would be interested in any expressions of interest in any of the three sets of items.

[Bucoops]

I was just thinking about the 6 wheelers the other day - have ordered some of Guy's fittings sets in anticipation as he warned of a price rise looming. Seven types? I may need to order more fittings!

[Bucoops]

I've been flicking through this book - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126639-hugh-longworths-book-on-pre-nationalisation-coaching-stock/page-1 - looks like ONE of the D516 full brakes survived to BR days - just. Withdrawn durnig 1948. None of the others did.

[gryffron]

To resurrect this ancient thread...

I have just heard from David Eveleigh that the 6 wheelers are ready for the etchers. David is taking orders right now. So contact him via his website to get your orders in.

 

Regards,

Gryff

[Jammy2305]

And very nice they look too!

[Bucoops]

Indeed! I understand there isn't the intended cleminson arrangement however.

[Edwardian]

This is a very exciting moment for me, as it was in hopes of just this type of GE 6-wheel coach that I first approached David.  Though the 4-wheelers have proved a happy bonus, the 6-wheelers are exactly what I'd wanted for my layout project. Thanks again to Guy Rixon for the 3D print equivlent of the complementary "castings" for these kits.

 

I am hoping to inspect the models made up so far next week, and will report further.

 

In the meantime, I have pictures of some of them and I have compiled some prototype notes.

 

It is worth noting that most of these have not, to my knowledge, been produced as kits before. The D&S kit nearly all represent the final style of 6-wheelers built by the GE (1897-1903).  John Watling has penned an excellent series of articles on the Great Eastern Railway Society site.  He has adopted a typology for classifying the evolution of GE coaches.  This final type of 6-wheeler is classified as 'Type 7A', and overlaps the introduction of bogie coaches. 

 

David's new kits are the preceding style of 6-wheelers.  These are the Holden standard types built 1886-1896 to either 32' or 34'6".  John Watling designates these as 'Type 5'.

 

The Type 5 is distinguished by square bottom and top radial corners to the lights and vertical panels. The Type 7A, or 'square light' coaches, have square corners top and bottom to the vertical panels and windows.

 

The Type 5s had an internal height to the crown of the roof of 7' and a door height 5'10".   The Type 7As were taller.

 

The Type 5s were built in large numbers over a long period.  Perhaps unsurprisingly, then, a review of photographs tends to throw up pictures of these, with the characteristic radial upper corners rather than the later 'square light' Type 7As.  So far as I am aware, D&S only produced one 'Type 5', the D404 Third. 

 

David is producing:

 

D404 Third - 6-compartment third, and by far the most numerous with 642 built.

 

 

D219 Luggage Composite - 32' vehicle with centre luggage compartment. 295 built.

 

 

 

D514 Brake Third - 34'6" - 148 built.

 

 

D516 Full Brake - 32" - This matches well the photographs and diagram book drawing. 152 built to D516 and D513.  D513 has the door right at the end, a less attractive variant. 

 

 

 

D10 Third Saloon - one of a small number of saloons, the D10 dates from 1887. No more than 7 built.

 

 

D105 First.- John Watling's articles suggest this is a central luggage compartment flanked by pairs of compartments. David confirms that his model is from a drawing to this number of a five-compartment First, so that is what we'll get. 40 built

 

D110 Lavatory Composite. 

 

This proved interesting.  I couldn't find a reference to a diagram 110 and I'd expect a composite to have 3-digit diagram number beginning with 2.  Firsts tended to start with 1. David informs me that the NRM drawing is 10146, described as 32ft. lav. compo., Aug 1890  D110c. 

 

This leads me to conclude that this started life as 1st/2nd Lav. Compo of 1890 to D205.  The GE abolished Second on all but its Continental expresses at the start of 1893. Generally 1st/2nd composites were converted to 1st/3rds but, John Watling tells us, exceptionally the D205s were upgraded to all Firsts.  i surmise that D110 was the new diagram number applied once it became a First.

 

 

[Bucoops]

The big question for me on these is when were they withdrawn? I've yet to find any info on that - I doubt any made it to BR days (and Hugh Longworth's book appears to support this) but did any last as long as 1939?

[billbedford]

The LNER cascaded ex-NER, and later ex-GC, carriages to GE during the 30s so that the six wheelers could be withdrawn.

[arichardson]

I am currently working on a real Ger 1st /3rd lav & luggage comp vehicle. Has been played around with slightly in the past 100 years as a dwelling, but after stripping down most original fixtures positions can be seen now. Carriage is No 46 built in 1884 to diagram 202, one of only 11 built and I suspect the only in existence!?!?  Also working on no 375, a Ger 1st/3rd luggage comp. Both of these carriages where disposed of in the 1920s after over 35 years service. If I can help with any dimensions / info I will endeavour to do so, the lav vehicle is actually 34ft in length. 

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, arichardson said:

I am currently working on a real Ger 1st /3rd lav & luggage comp vehicle. Has been played around with slightly in the past 100 years as a dwelling, but after stripping down most original fixtures positions can be seen now. Carriage is No 46 built in 1884 to diagram 202, one of only 11 built and I suspect the only in existence!?!?  Also working on no 375, a Ger 1st/3rd luggage comp. Both of these carriages where disposed of in the 1920s after over 35 years service. If I can help with any dimensions / info I will endeavour to do so, the lav vehicle is actually 34ft in length. 

 

Very interesting indeed, and best wishes for the project.

 

Pictures would be very interesting to see.

 

David Eveleigh is not considering a chassis kit for the 4-wheelers.  It will be a full chassis with solebars and footboards and a base, plus the same design of optional compensation that is being developed for the six wheeled coaches.   I I would certainly be interested, but I believe that the minimum quantity is 16 chassis. I'll subcribe to 3. Please let David know if you want some: easternandmidlandsmodels@gmail.com 

[gryffron]

I too have been working on a similar coach. Lav Composite No 352 to Diag 203. It was part of a cottage with 355 (foreground) which stood in Ely until 1985. (Great prototype for you modern modellers)

 

Now looks like this

 

Interesting picture from when the coaches were moved in 1985, still showing the original GER  livery. Both coaches were withdrawn in Dec 1924, so obviously the LNER never got around to repainting them. 

There was some discussion of the vents earlier. Note on this coach the window vents are smaller than the door vents.

 

A couple of questions for the experts here if I may...

1) What is the correct colour for GER maroon/dark red coach livery? Is LMS Maroon close enough? Or are we all just guessing?

2) What was the lining like? Was there any? None is visible on my photo above. Edwardian's  pic above appears to show full lining. 355 have gone for just one panel. My pic here: 

 

 

Thanks,

Gryffron

Edited August 29, 2019 by gryffron

[Ravenser]

Quote

The LNER cascaded ex-NER, and later ex-GC, carriages to GE during the 30s so that the six wheelers could be withdrawn.

 

The last 6 wheelers were being withdrawn by the LNER in the late 1930s . The Braintree branch switched from 6 wheelers in early 1940 and I think that left the Mid Suffolk as the last line using 6 wheelers until about 1949 (I think they just made it into BR service, but someone who has the detail can confirm)

Edited August 29, 2019 by Ravenser