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Eveleigh Creations - Great Eastern 4 & 6-Wheel Coaches


Edwardian
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On 27/09/2020 at 22:26, Norton Wood said:

At David's request I spent a bit of time this evening looking through for photo's of the GER Little Sharpie & GER/LNER T26/E4. As to be expected there are a number of high quality photo's in the book The Mildenhall Branch by Peter Paye and in the Yeadon's LNER Register of Locomotives Volume 30. I have attached a few photo's below. 

 

 

 

I expect that you will have seen this photo of a T26 - but in case you haven't

 

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On 28/06/2020 at 11:19, Edwardian said:

 

Well, actually, I'm in the process of commissioning some - both pre and post 1903 lettering - so no doubt something could be arranged.  I'll let people know once they're done.

 

That sounds interesting!

 

I have only just spotted this post. I was just thinking about transfers and talking to the layout owner about them earlier, so I thought I would look through the thread to see if anybody had mentioned such things. Did you ever get further with the transfers or are they still awaited?

 

I would be looking to finish the 6 I have been building in 1890 livery, with the GER rather than GE lettering and "Third" etc. (or should the be "3rd") on the waist panel doors rather than a big "3" on the main part of the door. Is that an option you have covered? If not, I will have to start looking elsewhere!

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20 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

That sounds interesting!

 

I have only just spotted this post. I was just thinking about transfers and talking to the layout owner about them earlier, so I thought I would look through the thread to see if anybody had mentioned such things. Did you ever get further with the transfers or are they still awaited?

 

I would be looking to finish the 6 I have been building in 1890 livery, with the GER rather than GE lettering and "Third" etc. (or should the be "3rd") on the waist panel doors rather than a big "3" on the main part of the door. Is that an option you have covered? If not, I will have to start looking elsewhere!

 

Not a problem.  The transfers I am commissioning will cover both liveries.  I model 1905, so I reckon most of my coaches will still wear the pre-1902 lettering, but I want both. W&U brake, No.16, for instance, will need the 1902 scheme.

 

The sheet should cover both, with both standard coach lettering and the tramway lettering found on the W&U.  There will be some second class, too, for those modelling pre-1893.

 

Here is a sample:

 

637236279_GER2a.jpg.39f9fc794d056b2f43ef14580bb507ef.jpg

Any comments and corrections welcome before this is finalised.

 

Thanks

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32 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Not a problem.  The transfers I am commissioning will cover both liveries.  I model 1905, so I reckon most of my coaches will still wear the pre-1902 lettering, but I want both. W&U brake, No.16, for instance, will need the 1902 scheme.

 

The sheet should cover both, with both standard coach lettering and the tramway lettering found on the W&U.  There will be some second class, too, for those modelling pre-1893.

 

Here is a sample:

 

637236279_GER2a.jpg.39f9fc794d056b2f43ef14580bb507ef.jpg

Any comments and corrections welcome before this is finalised.

 

Thanks

 

I am not enough of a GER expert to pass any comment in terms of corrections etc. but they look very nice to me!

 

I would be very interested in having some for the rake I am building. It is likely to be a couple of months before they are ready for painting so I don't know how near you are having them ready but I am not desperate.

 

Would they be obtained from you direct or from the people who are producing them for you?

 

Cheers

 

Tony

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22 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

I am not enough of a GER expert to pass any comment in terms of corrections etc. but they look very nice to me!

 

I would be very interested in having some for the rake I am building. It is likely to be a couple of months before they are ready for painting so I don't know how near you are having them ready but I am not desperate.

 

I'm going to try to ensure that the transfers match the Eveleigh coaches as closely as possible.

 

There were not really set rakes, so I have been asked to consider likely formations.  What is the composition of your rake?

 

22 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

Would they be obtained from you direct or from the people who are producing them for you?

 

I suppose that depends on how payment for the commission is handled; these GER transfers come on the back of a commission for my freelance railway company, but unlike those, there will be a wider market for the GE ones. 

 

As a user of the Eveleigh coaches, I want the GE transfer sheet (A6) to offer reasonable coverage for the range.

 

However it is structured, the intention is that these will be available to any who wants them.  I'll keep you posted. via this topic.

 

 

22 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

Cheers

 

Tony

 

 

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On 23/11/2020 at 13:23, Edwardian said:

 

I had thought it was 1919 (I may have said 1918 somewhere mistakenly).

 

A high proportion of restored carriages wear the crimson - it is very attractive - but I suppose the answer lies in what portion of the coaching stock was repainted each year?

 

1921 I had not heard of as the introduction date.

 

A word of caution:

 

Shortly after the Grouping , OVS Bulleid was sent to inspect the coaching stock used on Liverpool St suburban services - which would have been GE 4-wheelers. Dire rumours had evidently reached Gresley's office - and Bulleid reported that the whole lot was basically - and literally - falling to bits. The GE suburban services were rapidly re-equipped with new Gresley Quint-Artics

 

From this I think we can assume:

 

- Very few GE 4 wheelers made it into LNER livery. They were scrapped in short order, not repainted

- The very poor state of the GE suburban stock strongly implies very little of it had been through Stratford Works recently. Indeed it might suggest that most of the suburban coaches hadn't had a proper overhaul since at least 1914....

 

Consequently I wonder if the 4 wheelers actually carried crimson , or were broken up still in pre-war brown

 

We know that their doors were painted in class colours for the Jazz Service in 1920 - hence the name - but whether this meant Stratford repainted the whole vehicle in crimson and in haste, or just painted the doors is unclear. (I suspect the latter...)

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52 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

I'm going to try to ensure that the transfers match the Eveleigh coaches as closely as possible.

 

There were not really set rakes, so I have been asked to consider likely formations.  What is the composition of your rake?

 

 

I suppose that depends on how payment for the commission is handled; these GER transfers come on the back of a commission for my freelance railway company, but unlike those, there will be a wider market for the GE ones. 

 

As a user of the Eveleigh coaches, I want the GE transfer sheet (A6) to offer reasonable coverage for the range.

 

However it is structured, the intention is that these will be available to any who wants them.  I'll keep you posted. via this topic.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, please, just let us know when things are ready to go ahead. I would need 2 x Brake 3rds, 3 x 5 Compartment all 3rds and 1 x 4 compartment 1st, making 6 in all.

 

Thanks very much, that will be so much easier than hand lettering them!

 

Tony

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On 26/01/2021 at 13:51, Compound2632 said:

@Ravenser, had not the GE had a programme of rebuilding 4-wheelers in pairs as bogie carriages, also widened ? Or had this not actually got very far? 

 

The 4 wheelers used on the Jazz were the round topped door ones, not ones that David has done. D&S did some of them (Brake 3rd, 3rd and 1st - although the 2nd could be makde by doing full height partitions in the third) I believe the following were converted - 

 

26 Composites (from 26 1st and 26 2nd bodies), 26 2nds (from 52 2nd bodies), 26 3rds (from 52 3rd Bodies), 26 brake 3rds (from 26 third bodies, and 22 of  one type of brake 3rd and 4 of another). Not sure how many were not converted.

 

There was also quite a few new build 54ft 6 a side suburban stock built - these had square topped doors and elliptical roofs instead of the arc roofs the 4 wheelers had.

 

There is one surviving 54ft produced from two 27 foot bodies at Mangapps - 

 

26116371_10156076131684744_2322310409621881175_o.jpg.a5b64eca694496c1df5cdcdd0323f956.jpg

 

 

20200805_144105.jpg.80d6c33bf466749b1cc22a18460ae28d.jpg

 

 

I'm aware of one of the 4 wheelers surviving - and the NNR have just completed a fantastic restoration - 

 

http://nnrailway.blogspot.com/2019/10/completion-special-great-eastern.html

 

Edited by Bucoops
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With regards to the 6 wheeled brake 3rd in David's range I spotted something yesterday - there were TWO wheelbases for these, split roughly equally. So be careful on choosing running numbers if you want to be completely accurate - 

 

 

14600-514E2.jpg.689f6c34a7e376a24dab8b4968695e0c.jpg

 

David's underframe is 22'6" so the second set in the list (marked as "No fitted with 22'0 wheelbase"!).

 

Edit - just also spotted there were at least two classified as 2nd class just to confuse things!

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For completeness, here are the photos I have of the other diagrams available from David:

 

 

14600-1012.jpg.b7128606be5dac5aebf3ed1e3f7dfd0e.jpg

 

14600-105E.jpg.4fd097783bdf1865519fea679754dabb.jpg

 

 

 

14600-219E1.jpg.442579d5f786be130914c82fc6e54332.jpg

 

 

 

14600-219E2.jpg.499e04f3e94f41c8382a8d9247cdce98.jpg

 

 

14600-404E.jpg.6b5072375d158696098531138d7176d7.jpg

 

14600-516E.jpg.c8b61a1699b68d5dcd1368c295b53083.jpg

 

Apologies for the first two being upside down - they are the right way up on my PC?! And apologies for the last one being blurry. I didn't spot that until too late.

 

The missing ones are because that diagram number had been re-used (during the life of the diagram book, when the last of a type had been withdrawn, that diagram number was sometimes re-used and so the diagram had a new one pasted over the top).

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3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

@Ravenser, had not the GE had a programme of rebuilding 4-wheelers in pairs as bogie carriages, also widened ? Or had this not actually got very far? 

 

With regards to widened coaches, I believe they were different to the ones above. I know very little about them, although there is a picture of one in the process of being widened in "Railway carriages 1839-1939" - G M Kichenside published by Ian Allen. There is one end section remaining, no other know survivors - http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=2550

 

D507 brake 3rd is one of them (and D&S did this as a kit in both widths I believe - not sure on others).

 

 

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25 minutes ago, EHertsGER said:

I’m in for several sets of transfers - David, I’ll let you know, but basically at least enough to finish all the coaches I bought from you.

 

best,

Marcus

 

Let me know.  Like Guy Rixon's 3D printed 'castings', they're not produced by David.

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On 26/01/2021 at 12:02, Edwardian said:

 

Not a problem.  The transfers I am commissioning will cover both liveries.  I model 1905, so I reckon most of my coaches will still wear the pre-1902 lettering, but I want both. W&U brake, No.16, for instance, will need the 1902 scheme.

 

The sheet should cover both, with both standard coach lettering and the tramway lettering found on the W&U.  There will be some second class, too, for those modelling pre-1893.

 

Here is a sample:

 

637236279_GER2a.jpg.39f9fc794d056b2f43ef14580bb507ef.jpg

Any comments and corrections welcome before this is finalised.

 

Thanks

Do the transfers included the markings for the vans in the old D&S and Peter K kits? I'm after " GER Fruit van" to complete one vehicle and while I could recolour some other lettering it would be nicer to have the proper transfers. 

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On 01/02/2021 at 16:19, Guy Rixon said:

Do the transfers included the markings for the vans in the old D&S and Peter K kits? I'm after " GER Fruit van" to complete one vehicle and while I could recolour some other lettering it would be nicer to have the proper transfers. 

 

I have have requested Fruit Van and Yeast Van 

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I just tried out the printing of GNR monogram that Bill Bedford sent me and applied it to a piece of green plastic on my workbench. The height of this is 4mm but apparently the Hornby one is 8mm high so this is a 2mm scale transfer. The GER will be the same two layer printing with the white under on a base layer and the colour on a top layer. Difficult to photograph!!Cheers Ian

4mm height 2.jpg

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I am corrected! Apparently it was a NBR device that was measured, not a GNR. So I printed almost 7mm scale then. It was just an experiment for Bill to see what the printer was capable of registration wise and that seemed fine! Cheers Nile. 

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@Edwardian I'd be interested in several sets of the transfers. I currently have two rakes of suburban four wheelers in need of transfers:

The first rake is a set of the six-a-side stock from Danny's kits, comprising

2 x 2 compartment brake 3rds, 1 x 5 compartment 3rd, 1 x 5 compartment 2nd, 1 x 4 compartment 1st

The second is a rake of what John Watling of the GE society has dubbed type 3B, comprising

2 x 3 compartment brake 3rds, 1 x 5 compartment 3rd, 1 x 5 compartment 2nd, 1 x 4 compartment 1st

 

Obviously these rakes predate the later arrangement of suburban stock into standardised sets.

 

My current thinking is that I'd ideally do the rake of 3Bs with the older livery and the six-a-side stock with the later livery, so your suggestion that the sheet would have some of each livery would suit me well.

 

I have plans for more in the future, so if you need to meet a minimum order, or this might be a one-time opportunity, I'll happily buy a few more sets!

 

By the way, I note your remark earlier about only those modelling pre 1893 needing transfers for 2nd class: my understanding was that date only applied to mainline stock: reading John's articles in Journals 101 et seq, the GE contained to build 2nd class carriages for suburban stock well into the 1900s, with the later livery.

 

Thanks for taking the initiative on this, it's something I've been failing to get around to for some considerable time now!

 

Ian

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9 hours ago, icw said:

@Edwardian I'd be interested in several sets of the transfers. I currently have two rakes of suburban four wheelers in need of transfers:

The first rake is a set of the six-a-side stock from Danny's kits, comprising

2 x 2 compartment brake 3rds, 1 x 5 compartment 3rd, 1 x 5 compartment 2nd, 1 x 4 compartment 1st

The second is a rake of what John Watling of the GE society has dubbed type 3B, comprising

2 x 3 compartment brake 3rds, 1 x 5 compartment 3rd, 1 x 5 compartment 2nd, 1 x 4 compartment 1st

 

Obviously these rakes predate the later arrangement of suburban stock into standardised sets.

 

My current thinking is that I'd ideally do the rake of 3Bs with the older livery and the six-a-side stock with the later livery, so your suggestion that the sheet would have some of each livery would suit me well.

 

I have plans for more in the future, so if you need to meet a minimum order, or this might be a one-time opportunity, I'll happily buy a few more sets!

 

By the way, I note your remark earlier about only those modelling pre 1893 needing transfers for 2nd class: my understanding was that date only applied to mainline stock: reading John's articles in Journals 101 et seq, the GE contained to build 2nd class carriages for suburban stock well into the 1900s, with the later livery.

 

Thanks for taking the initiative on this, it's something I've been failing to get around to for some considerable time now!

 

Ian

 

Yes, I need to get on with this.

 

Second Class was also retained on the Harwich-York dining service. I had no plans to cater for suburban services, however, as my interests lie in rural Norfolk.

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