Eveleigh Creations - Great Eastern 4 & 6-Wheel Coaches

[Guy Rixon]

Is there an ETA for the transfers?

[Edwardian]

9 minutes ago, Guy Rixon said:

Is there an ETA for the transfers?

 

My fault. I'll get on to it

[Guy Rixon]

1 minute ago, Edwardian said:

 

My fault. I'll get on to it

No need to rush. I just wondered.

[Edwardian]

4 minutes ago, Guy Rixon said:

No need to rush. I just wondered.

 

No, but it is one of a number of things I am neglecting!

[t-b-g]

The rake of 6 that I am building have progressed nicely. Just the roof detail to add, then ready for painting.

 

So it won't be too long before I will be ready to put some transfers on too.

 

 

 

[Bucoops]

They are looking great! Looks like brass buffer housings - whose are you using?

[t-b-g]

18 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

They are looking great! Looks like brass buffer housings - whose are you using?

 

Many thanks for the kind words.

 

I looked at the 3D printed parts but after seeing how brittle the axleboxes were (several broke as I tried to open out the hole to take a 2mm bearing) I thought that I would rather have brass buffers, which also come as sprung.

 

They are part 4969 from Alan Gibson and are sold as "13" early long type".

 

The brake pipes are from the same supplier and are rather lovely.

[Guy Rixon]

The axleboxes are designed to take waisted bearings without opening out. That's why they're so thin at the edges. They won't take full-width bearings without a fight.

[t-b-g]

2 hours ago, Guy Rixon said:

The axleboxes are designed to take waisted bearings without opening out. That's why they're so thin at the edges. They won't take full-width bearings without a fight.

 

I did wonder about that but I had lots of the full width bearings in stock and none of the waisted ones. It seemed the the hole was only ever so slightly undersized and only needed a tiny gentle touch to open them out but even twiddling a 2mm drill very slowly in my fingers caused the material to shatter. It only happened on a few, maybe 3 or 4 but it was enough to make me think about the buffers. I haven't used 3D printed ones before and I had no idea about how durable they would be on a working layout, which involves the carriages being shunted and propelled. I have had plastic buffers fail on me before, especially ones with a very fine buffer housing and I am not sure that the 3D printed ones will be any stronger than injection moulded polystyrene.

 

They may be perfectly fine but I just haven't got that level of experience to be certain.

 

I wanted sprung buffers anyway so I would have had to drill out the printed ones and arrange springing, so it was easier to substitute metal ones that come with it incorporated.

Edited April 14, 2021 by t-b-g

[t-b-g]

On 22/03/2021 at 14:18, Edwardian said:

 

No, but it is one of a number of things I am neglecting!

 

I don't know how often you look in on the thread but I would just add that it won't be too long before I shall be ready for some too. If you are not finding time to get them done, don't worry about it as I can fudge carefully adapt from my large collection of random transfers but if I do that, sods law says yours are ready a day or two later!

[Guy Rixon]

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I did wonder about that but I had lots of the full width bearings in stock and none of the waisted ones. It seemed the the hole was only ever so slightly undersized and only needed a tiny gentle touch to open them out but even twiddling a 2mm drill very slowly in my fingers caused the material to shatter. It only happened on a few, maybe 3 or 4 but it was enough to make me think about the buffers. I haven't used 3D printed ones before and I had no idea about how durable they would be on a working layout, which involves the carriages being shunted and propelled. I have had plastic buffers fail on me before, especially ones with a very fine buffer housing and I am not sure that the 3D printed ones will be any stronger than injection moulded polystyrene.

 

They may be perfectly fine but I just haven't got that level of experience to be certain.

 

I wanted sprung buffers anyway so I would have had to drill out the printed ones and arrange springing, so it was easier to substitute metal ones that come with it incorporated.

The printed buffers are already bored for springs. No proper drilling is needed, just gentle twiddling of drill bits to ream out the bores. You need a 1.0 mm bit in the main bore and 0.5 mm (or 0.55 mm) in the bore for the tail. Effectively, one uses the spiral flutes of the drill bits to scrape the bores clean. It takes about 5 minutes for a set of 4.

 

The sides of the axlebox cavities were designed as thin as possible so as to leave the most space for bearing movement. The buffer guides include a greater thickness of resin and are an inherently stronger shape; and the turned parts will stiffen and protect them. Conversely, I wouldn't expect printed buffer heads or rams to last very long. Consider turned heads and rams in plastic guides: I haven't heard of people braking those.

 

If you have no waisted bearings, it's not too hard to file down the full-size bearings to fit. A 2 mm hole in a chunk of fret waste is a good way to hold them while filing. If you are fixing the axleboxes to the bearings, as with rocking axleguards, then you only need a little off the width to let the bearing enter the printed axlebox.

[t-b-g]

13 minutes ago, Guy Rixon said:

The printed buffers are already bored for springs. No proper drilling is needed, just gentle twiddling of drill bits to ream out the bores. You need a 1.0 mm bit in the main bore and 0.5 mm (or 0.55 mm) in the bore for the tail. Effectively, one uses the spiral flutes of the drill bits to scrape the bores clean. It takes about 5 minutes for a set of 4.

 

The sides of the axlebox cavities were designed as thin as possible so as to leave the most space for bearing movement. The buffer guides include a greater thickness of resin and are an inherently stronger shape; and the turned parts will stiffen and protect them. Conversely, I wouldn't expect printed buffer heads or rams to last very long. Consider turned heads and rams in plastic guides: I haven't heard of people braking those.

 

If you have no waisted bearings, it's not too hard to file down the full-size bearings to fit. A 2 mm hole in a chunk of fret waste is a good way to hold them while filing. If you are fixing the axleboxes to the bearings, as with rocking axleguards, then you only need a little off the width to let the bearing enter the printed axlebox.

 

I am sure others will do much better than I did with the items. It was the first time I have ever used 3D printed parts and I was very much learning about the materials and the techniques required.

 

I don't recall any instructions about how to drill the buffers out for springs or any other guidance on how they were intended to be used arriving with mine but it wouldn't be the first time I ignored instructions if there were some.

 

My mistake was probably expecting them to behave like injection moulded plastic.

 

The detail on the parts is superb. I was astonished at the links attaching the ends of the springs to the mountings. I doubt that any other method could have produced such fine detail.

 

I will know better next time and it is not a criticism of your lovely prints, more about my hamfistedness trying to use them. 

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I don't know how often you look in on the thread but I would just add that it won't be too long before I shall be ready for some too. If you are not finding time to get them done, don't worry about it as I can fudge carefully adapt from my large collection of random transfers but if I do that, sods law says yours are ready a day or two later!

 

Edging towards the top of my to-do list!

[ianmaccormac]

Well James seems to have a long to do list so I thought I had better post direct to get approval to print some of these so that some of you who are nearing completion, can!

I have redrawn quite a bit since getting the Vol 2 of the The Liveries of the Pre-Grouping Railways that covered the GER. There are now three sections, as per the book, and if you can comment on whether this is correct, I'll get printing. I'll put them on my blog https://ianmaccormacmodels.blogspot.com/

once I have them ready. I will put enough on a sheet for 20 x 3rd, 10 x 2nd and 8 x 1st compartments. I believe the later, crimson type, are not appropriate so I will just get the other two ready in those sorts of numbers. I believe lots of 6 numerals for the carriage numbers?? Let me know. Cheers, Ian

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by ianmaccormac
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[Compound2632]

@ianmaccormac, can I suggest adding a couple more 1s and 2s? These are the most common numbers, the ones I find I run out of first on transfer sheets.

[ianmaccormac]

This low res to give you an idea on what I am thinking of for the A6 sheet. Is the mix of bits okay?

Cheers, Ian

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by ianmaccormac
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[Guy Rixon]

There was a suggestion earlier to include Fruit Van and Yeast Van. Perhaps this is no longer the plan?

[Edwardian]

Right then.

 

First, thanks to Ian for his hard work and patience.

 

Second, the reason for the delay is that I understood Ian to want suggested running numbers for the Eveleigh 6-wheelers, which is a sound idea, save that it involved me sitting down with the photographs of the register posted by Bucoops

 

 

And trying to read numbers, often scratched out, and seeing if I can determine if they are a match for the style of the Eveleigh etches, and checking accident reports.

 

I have failed to undertake a task that I do not relish. 

 

Third, this started out as a private commission, therefore was tailored to what I thought I needed.

 

Thus:

 

- It was to include FRUIT, YEAST etc

 

- It was to include W&U tram class designations, e.g. FIRST spelt out

 

- It was not to have seconds, as second is generally thought to have been culled in, UURC, 1892, save for suburban work and Harwich boat train/North Country Continental, though I have since come across CWTT info printed in the GERS Journal that has some 1902 express workings with seconds.   I did want to include a W&U SECOND un case I wanted a set of tramcars as built.

 

- It was to be heavily waited to the pre-1902 lettering, as there would be relatively few new-builds or repaints on my 1905 period layout.

 

- It was not to have anything 1919 crimson livery     

 

Now what Ian has come up with is a more general GER coach lettering sheet of more general relevance. 

 

Further, he has proceeded on the basis of individual numerals for making up running numbers, which suggests that I need not hold up the process.

 

We can always have a second sheet with the other transfers. 

 

I'm pretty relaxed about whichever way Ian wants to deal with things.

[ianmaccormac]

Well I've printed some A6 sheets of that design and am very happy with them. £15 a sheet including postage. Contact me at ianmaccormac@hotmail.com to send me postal details and receive payment instructions for bank transfer, cheque or, for £16 a sheet, Paypal.

Cheers

Ian

Edited April 27, 2022 by ianmaccormac
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[ianmaccormac]

My understanding is that the pre 1902 uses the small 1st, 2nd, 3rd, the crest, the GER, the Guard and Luggage words and the numbers, i.e. the top three quarters of the sheet.

The 1902 to 1919 uses the large 1,2,and 3, the crest, the GE, the Guard and Luggage words and the numbers. Again, about three quarters of the sheet.

I have been asked to do the post 1919 parts as well, on another sheet, so I will be putting the largish 1 and 3 - does there need to be a 2??, the crests, the GE and the numbers as well as the Guard and Luggage words. Does that sound correct anyone please?

Cheers, Ian

Edited April 18, 2021 by ianmaccormac

[gryffron]

On 22/11/2020 at 22:58, jamesC37LG said:

 

I've always had crimson marked as a 1919 introduction but one article on the GERS website states it as 1921. Carriages received the new livery as they passed through works for general repairs and upkeep and, interestingly, at least two or three of the Tram locos were similarly treated as their bodywork fell under the carriage and wagon department. It's hard to say how much of the carriage fleet was so treated but its often commented on with some amusement that no sooner had a number of carriages been painted, than the GER was grouped into the LNER and everything had to be repainted back to "teak" brown! 

I provided a photo (Page 5 of this thread) shows one in maroon still carrying "GER" lettering, which was known to be scrapped in 1924. Type 5s have wooden frames. Huge numbers of GER Type 5s were scrapped very quickly by the LNER in the mid 1920's. Which is thankfully why so many bodies survived as buildings. As with 4 wheelers, I personally doubt many Type 5s remained in use long enough to be repainted to LNER colours. Type 7As had steel frames, so the 6 wheelers which survived into the 30's much more likely to be of this latter type.

 

Preserved/Restored bodies are usually maroon because they're patched up with plywood. No-one can afford real teak these days. Of course you could do them in fake "Teak" paint finish, as many LNER coaches certainly were in the day, and as preserved lines use for their LNER stock. But it's hard work to get it to look right. Or plain brown paint (without graining) as was applied by GER (pre-1919) on "acquired" or "tired" stock. I suspect the GER's main reason for moving away from Varnished Teak in 1919 is that so many of the coaches were in poor condition by the end of the war that they wanted to use cheap wood, filler and paint to hide the holes!

 

Gryffron

[Jammy2305]

1 hour ago, gryffron said:

I provided a photo (Page 5 of this thread) shows one in maroon still carrying "GER" lettering, which was known to be scrapped in 1924. Type 5s have wooden frames. Huge numbers of GER Type 5s were scrapped very quickly by the LNER in the mid 1920's. Which is thankfully why so many bodies survived as buildings. As with 4 wheelers, I personally doubt many Type 5s remained in use long enough to be repainted to LNER colours. Type 7As had steel frames, so the 6 wheelers which survived into the 30's much more likely to be of this latter type.

 

Preserved/Restored bodies are usually maroon because they're patched up with plywood. No-one can afford real teak these days. Of course you could do them in fake "Teak" paint finish, as many LNER coaches certainly were in the day, and as preserved lines use for their LNER stock. But it's hard work to get it to look right. Or plain brown paint (without graining) as was applied by GER (pre-1919) on "acquired" or "tired" stock. I suspect the GER's main reason for moving away from Varnished Teak in 1919 is that so many of the coaches were in poor condition by the end of the war that they wanted to use cheap wood, filler and paint to hide the holes!

 

Gryffron

 

The GER started using steel sheeting for carriage panels due to wood shortages after the war hence the introduction of the crimson livery (faux-teak brown on metal doesn't look great!) 

 

- James 

[Bucoops]

25 minutes ago, jamesC37LG said:

 

The GER started using steel sheeting for carriage panels due to wood shortages after the war hence the introduction of the crimson livery (faux-teak brown on metal doesn't look great!) 

 

- James 

 

I dunno about that  but I assuming you are referring to just plain brown paint rather than scumbled effect?

 

http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/10077.htm

 

But yes I do take your point

[Guy Rixon]

For plain brown paint on teak coaches, see the Met. dreadnoughts at Quainton Road. Definitely different to the imitation teak on the LNER coaches.

[Jammy2305]

22 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

I dunno about that  but I assuming you are referring to just plain brown paint rather than scumbled effect?

 

http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/10077.htm

 

But yes I do take your point

 

Sorry, yes, plain drab brown! I always found the scrumbled effect worked nicely on Thompson stock.