Eveleigh Creations - Great Eastern 4 & 6-Wheel Coaches

[Edwardian]

Hello All

 

David Eveleigh informs me that he has received the first batch of all three types of four wheeled Great Eastern Rly coach body kits from the etchers.

 

This means that anyone who paid a deposit can now complete payment, and no doubt will have heard/be hearing from David.

 

However, I am told that David has asked for a few etches in addition to those reserved.  These will be sold on a first come-first served basis.   

 

Thanks

 

James

[webbcompound]

Awaiting the imminent arrival of my four wheeler coaches, which will be LDECR stock transferred to the GCR I note that DOW in his history of the GCR refers to the LDECR coaches (all thirds and brake thirds bought from the GER in 1896) as being of the "open suburban" type with no upholstery. Can anyone tell me if this means that there are no partitions between the compartments?

Edited July 16, 2018 by webbcompound

[Bucoops]

Expecting mine soon - no idea when I'll have time to build them though!

[jwealleans]

Can anyone tell me if this means that there are no partitions between the compartments?

I believe they went above the backs of the seats but not right up to the roof.

[Edwardian]

Well, mine are in the post.

 

Hurrah!

 

I note that there are pictures of the bodies on David's website: http://eveleighcreations.com/4-mm-ger-coach-bodies/

 

Oh, and some Destructions, particularly helpful for a beginner like me: http://eveleighcreations.com/instructions-4-mm-ger-four-wheeled-coach-body-kits/

 

Further good news:

 

The 6-wheelers have been designed in 2mm and so the 4mm versions should be designed over the next few weeks.

 

As a reminder, these are the Holden 1880s 6-wheelers, as opposed to the late 1890s type that D&S produced (I think D&S just did the 1880s Third, but never did any others).  They are, I believe:

 

34'6" Brake Third (Dia.514)

 

34'6" 6-Compartment Third (Dia.404)

 

32' Centre Luggage Compartment 4-Compartment Composite (Dia.219)  

 

32' Full Brake (Dia.516).

 

Also contemplated, subject to interest, are:

 

- Sinclair 4-wheelers

 

- Eastern Counties 1850s First (a coach that I had intended to model - it's at York)

 

- Outside frame coaches, including one with a birdcage

 

Please contact David if you are interested in any of these: easternandmidlandsmodels@gmail.com

[Bucoops]

Special delivery Well - signed for!

 

[Edwardian]

This is the 'stage coach' style First that I believe David would like to produce given sufficient interest.

 

It is one on my scratch-build list, so the prospect of etches is of particular interest. 

 

With a build in view, I photographed it at York earlier this year.  It has quite an interesting history.  Built by the Eastern Counties Railway, forerunner of the Great Eastern, in 1851, it was converted to departmental use as an engineers' saloon in the 1870s and was not withdrawn until 1892.

 

In its conserved, rather than restored, state, it is possible to discern the Eastern Counties monogram.

 

Any expressions of interest to David, please: easternandmidlandsmodels@gmail.com   

Edited July 18, 2018 by Edwardian

[Bucoops]

Wow

 

Too early for me unfortunately.

[Guy Rixon]

Well, mine are in the post.

 

Hurrah!

 

I note that there are pictures of the bodies on David's website: http://eveleighcreations.com/4-mm-ger-coach-bodies/

 

Oh, and some Destructions, particularly helpful for a beginner like me: http://eveleighcreations.com/instructions-4-mm-ger-four-wheeled-coach-body-kits/

 

Further good news:

 

The 6-wheelers have been designed in 2mm and so the 4mm versions should be designed over the next few weeks.

 

As a reminder, these are the Holden 1880s 6-wheelers, as opposed to the late 1890s type that D&S produced (I think D&S just did the 1880s Third, but never did any others).  They are, I believe:

 

34'6" Brake Third (Dia.514)

 

34'6" 6-Compartment Third (Dia.404)

 

32' Centre Luggage Compartment 4-Compartment Composite (Dia.219)  

 

32' Full Brake (Dia.516).

 

Also contemplated, subject to interest, are:

 

- Sinclair 4-wheelers

 

- Eastern Counties 1850s First (a coach that I had intended to model - it's at York)

 

- Outside frame coaches, including one with a birdcage

 

Please contact David if you are interested in any of these: easternandmidlandsmodels@gmail.com

 

 

The full-size coach pictured indoors is, I think, one of those at the East Anglian Railway Museum and it is in their restoration shed. That one is coming back as a bit of a hybrid: it's on a modified wagon chassis with some coach fittings. Therefore, the axleboxes are probably correct (they match the other GER coaches at EARM) and possibly the buffers, but the springs are from the wagon. It was on this vehicle that I measured the outer-axle axleboxes for the fittings prints, but I got the spring details from one of their 6-wheelers.

[Edwardian]

The etches for the three 4-wheelers (4-Compt. First, 5-Compt.Third and 2-Compt. Brake Third) arrived today:

[Guy Rixon]

Do we know what axleguards to use with these bodies? I assume that something from Bill Bedford's range will suit.

[Edwardian]

Do we know what axleguards to use with these bodies? I assume that something from Bill Bedford's range will suit.

 

I am planning to use EB Models (Ian MacCormac) W Irons etches.  The Stroudley/Billinton coach W iron frets are pretty generic and include brakes.  

 

The body kits are planned so that Ratio 4-wheel chassis can be used (you blank off the steel sole bars and back date the springs by trimming off.  I have decided not to do this, but to use the EB Models W Irons with your 3D printed 4-wheel coach accessory set. I have all these bits, so I hope it all works!

[carlos]

I'm looking forward to get mine!

 

Do someone know if diagram 401 (4 wheels third class 5 compartments) is to this drawing from HMRS?

https://hmrs.org.uk/drawings/third-class-5-compartments-15ft-3ins-w-b-26ft-ins-o-b.html

 

I'm specially thinking on the interior detail, and this drawing could help. Apparently they only sell a physical copy in different paper sizes, which is a bit sad.

 

As per the W-irons, could any of Masokits offers do?

 

Carlos

[webbcompound]

The HMRS drawing is interesting, but even if I bought it it still wouldn't be clear whether the compartments were separated by partitions, or by horizontal iron bars. Anyone have the answer?

[K14]

The HMRS drawing is interesting, but even if I bought it it still wouldn't be clear whether the compartments were separated by partitions, or by horizontal iron bars. Anyone have the answer?

 

In the drawing there are two types of partition. The central compartment has a full-height (or maybe eaves-height) partition, whereas the outer compartment pairs have a half-partition that seems to end at the top of the seat back. In the latter case, there may well have been a central pillar (either of timber or iron) to keep the roof from sagging; there's definitely some vertical component showing in the end cross-section, but I can't interpret it from such a low-res image.

 

(Image used for illustrative purposes only)

 

Holden stock seems to have had full-height partitions if the photo on the relevant LNER Encyclopedia page is anything to go by:—

 

https://www.lner.info/co/GER/coaches.php

 

That photo seems to show a vertical pillar with two panels either side above the seat back rail; it also shows vertical boarding indicating that the vehicle was not upholstered.

 

Pete.

[Edwardian]

In the drawing there are two types of partition. The central compartment has a full-height (or maybe eaves-height) partition, whereas the outer compartment pairs have a half-partition that seems to end at the top of the seat back. In the latter case, there may well have been a central pillar (either of timber or iron) to keep the roof from sagging; there's definitely some vertical component showing in the end cross-section, but I can't interpret it from such a low-res image.

 

19957_RMW.png

(Image used for illustrative purposes only)

 

Holden stock seems to have had full-height partitions if the photo on the relevant LNER Encyclopedia page is anything to go by:—

 

https://www.lner.info/co/GER/coaches.php

 

That photo seems to show a vertical pillar with two panels either side above the seat back rail; it also shows vertical boarding indicating that the vehicle was not upholstered.

 

Pete.

 

That makes a lot of sense.  The models are, I believe, of late Johnson period designs (or as perpetuated by Adams from 1873).  As pre-1877 builds, they would originally have been oil-lit, like the coach in the HMRS drawing.

 

Below is a diagram book picture of an early Johnson period Diagram 400 Third, which I would place c.1867-9.  The model is of a Dia.401 Third, and it will be seen that it is longer, to a new standard length of 26' for Firsts, Seconds and Thirds (starting with Dia.400A in 1870).  There are other differences between the kit/HMRS drawing and the earlier coach shown below, such as the fixed lights spanning the compartment division, only possible, one might have thought, with half-height partitions (though see drawing below).

 

Turning to the HMRS drawing, it seems to be very similar to the kit, and is one of the post 1870 26' designs. 

 

The windows are divided between the compartments, but it does not necessarily follow that all partitions were now full height, and your interpretation of the drawing resembles the layout of the partitions in the earlier diagram (below).

 

Judging from the diagram drawings, Worsdell was using three-quarter height partitions between Third Class compartments on 4-wheelers circa. 1882-3, and they are seen again in Holden's steel channel-framed suburban 4-wheel D410 Thirds of 1896, so I wouldn't expect their predecessors to run to full height partitions between every such compartment in the early 1870s.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Edwardian

[webbcompound]

Is it possible that the full height compartment divider in the early carriages was there to seperate ladies only seats (I'm not familiar with GER practice, but the Premier line provided some separate seating for ladies as well as the smoking/non smoking separation. Ladies of course did not smoke)

[Edwardian]

I was assuming smoking and non, but you make a good point about ladies.

 

Originally built for urban commuting; I don't know how that affects the question.

[billbedford]

The reason half hight partitions were used was to enable fewer lamps than the number of compartments. The HMRS drawing, for instance, shows three lamps for a five compartment coach.

[billbedford]

Is it possible that the full height compartment divider in the early carriages was there to seperate ladies only seats (I'm not familiar with GER practice, but the Premier line provided some separate seating for ladies as well as the smoking/non smoking separation. Ladies of course did not smoke)

 

Ladies, did not frequent third class railway carriages, at least, not in the 1860s.

[Edwardian]

Ladies, did not frequent third class railway carriages, at least, not in the 1860s.

 

At least not any you'd bring home to meet your parents.

 

Victorian office-land in London was designed for men.  There was an interesting Radio 4 segment this week on how, despite the significant numbers of women working in central London offices in the late Nineteenth Century, no provision was made by the planners and architects for female public conveniences.  This causes me to doubt that inner London commuting trains were planned with female accommodation in mind.

 

GER inner London suburban traffic was notoriously from poorer eastern district.  Would women make up part of the custom amid the impoverished clerks and labouring classes with which GER London traffic is associated?  Interesting questions, as ever on RMWeb.

[webbcompound]

The Met Railway Ashbury Set  all 3rd Control Trailer at the London Transport Museum is exhibited with a Ladies Only compartment. This raises the question of when 3rd class Ladies Only began. The Met introduced them in 1874, but the South Eastern had carriages reserved for ladies from some point in the 1850s. As to the class of ladies "A British Mother" writing to the Times in 1875 said that she did not frequent Ladies Only carriages/compartments as they were "very frequently" occupied by nurses and children and that there was continuous "baby talk".

Edited July 20, 2018 by webbcompound

[GER_Jon]

I believe as originally built 5 compt 3rd had 3 oil lamps and half height partitions smoking was discouraged AFAIK. Later on by the time of the diagram book post 1900 gas lighting and separate smoking provision introduced the 2 / 3 split for compts and ventilators on the 2 smoking ones. David measured surviving coaches in the later condition and his 2mm coaches have the roof configured for lamps and ventilators.

[Compound2632]

Ladies, did not frequent third class railway carriages, at least, not in the 1860s.

 

Fishwives presumably did but would be unlikely to encounter any problems they couldn't deal with.

[Jammy2305]

The etches for the three 4-wheelers (4-Compt. First, 5-Compt.Third and 2-Compt. Brake Third) arrived today:

 

I can't help but notice that the roof etchings for Dia.101 and Dia.401 are very similar to that of Dia.501 in that there is a gap in the inner rain-strips (Is that the correct term?) and two sets of three holes at one end. On Dia.501 these align with the two compartments, which makes sense.

 

My question therefore is, for what purpose do these feature on Dia.101/Dia.401, or rather, what is the correct arrangement for roof detail on these two coaches?

 

Cheers in advance

 

James