Jammy2305 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Scratch that, I think I've answered my own question! Zoomed in on the image of the 2mm examples (do excuse the resultant grainy image!) and it would appear some of the roof vents were wider? Would this be for provision of smoking? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 I can't help but notice that the roof etchings for Dia.101 and Dia.401 are very similar to that of Dia.501 in that there is a gap in the inner rain-strips (Is that the correct term?) and two sets of three holes at one end. On Dia.501 these align with the two compartments, which makes sense. My question therefore is, for what purpose do these feature on Dia.101/Dia.401, or rather, what is the correct arrangement for roof detail on these two coaches? Cheers in advance James I will ask David, but I interpret these as holes for ventilators, mounted either side of the lamp top. I consider it likely that they relate to smoking compartments. In the case of the First and the Third, they relate to the 2 end compartments. This suggests they are smoking compartments. In the case of the Third, I would expect a full-height partition separating them from the remaining three compartments. I assume full-height partitions for each compartment in the First. In the Brake Third, both compartments seem to have provision for the vents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy2305 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I will ask David, but I interpret these as holes for ventilators, mounted either side of the lamp top. I consider it likely that they relate to smoking compartments. In the case of the First and the Third, they relate to the 2 end compartments. This suggests they are smoking compartments. In the case of the Third, I would expect a full-height partition separating them from the remaining three compartments. I assume full-height partitions for each compartment in the First. In the Brake Third, both compartments seem to have provision for the vents. Thank you for the information! One thing I couldn't help but notice was that whilst the holes on the roof of Dia.101 (First Class) relate to the end two compartments, the holes on the roof for Dia.401 (Third Class) appear not to line up with the corresponding compartments as one may expect, with the roof section and subsequent hole spacing being identical to that of the roof for Dia.101? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Scratch that, I think I've answered my own question! Zoomed in on the image of the 2mm examples (do excuse the resultant grainy image!) and it would appear some of the roof vents were wider? GER 4 wheelers 2.png Would this be for provision of smoking? Yes,indistinct though it is, what you are seeing over the 2 left-hand compartments of the Third and over the 2 passenger compartments of the Brake Thirds are vents either side of the lamp tops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Thank you for the information! One thing I couldn't help but notice was that whilst the holes on the roof of Dia.101 (First Class) relate to the end two compartments, the holes on the roof for Dia.401 (Third Class) appear not to line up with the corresponding compartments as one may expect, with the roof section and subsequent hole spacing being identical to that of the roof for Dia.101? Intriguing. In the case of the First and Brake Third it looks as if they align with the compartment centre. With the Third, they don't seem to. I have had a swift reply from David confirming that these are holes for vents over the smoking compartments, and he points to a picture of a roof in an album edited by Swinger, which I don't have and David does not have to hand! I'll try to find which album and to get hold of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Presumably you have copies of John Watling's articles on GER carriages published in the Great Eastern Railway Society Journal; eg Journal 101 January 2000, Journal 103 July 2000 etc. Has anyone contact John? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Presumably you have copies of John Watling's articles on GER carriages published in the Great Eastern Railway Society Journal; eg Journal 101 January 2000, Journal 103 July 2000 etc. Has anyone contact John? Paul No and no Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 No and no John has published in the GERS Journal numerous illustrated articles on GER carriages since the 1970's and undertaken a research on GER stock for significantly longer. It appears from the above its an issue of roof vents, presumably suitable photos would answer the query? I'll have quick look at a few Journal articles. I've got a couple of the 4w/3rd's to use on my 1950's Colchester layout as grounded loco staff mess accommodation and a six wheel on order, but the roofs probably are significantly different to running condition! Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 John has published in the GERS Journal numerous illustrated articles on GER carriages since the 1970's and undertaken a research on GER stock for significantly longer. It appears from the above its an issue of roof vents, presumably suitable photos would answer the query? I'll have quick look at a few Journal articles. I've got a couple of the 4w/3rd's to use on my 1950's Colchester layout as grounded loco staff mess accommodation and a six wheel on order, but the roofs probably are significantly different to running condition! Paul Much appreciated, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GER_Jon Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Its an error on the etch the third roof is incorrect(actually a copy of first). David is going to get a sheet of replacements etched to replace these and will send them out when ready. Regards Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted August 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2018 Its an error on the etch the third roof is incorrect(actually a copy of first). David is going to get a sheet of replacements etched to replace these and will send them out when ready. Regards Jon Now that's service Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Edwardian Carriage roof details: Photo of any interest from GERS Journal 62 April 1990? Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted August 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2018 As it happens my DVD of issues 1 - 150 of the GERS journal arrived today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) As it happens my DVD of issues 1 - 150 of the GERS journal arrived today. Enjoy the read - for my "sins" I was Journal Editor for 20 years! Another photo from the GER "survey" of 1910 - 1911. This is a very large collection of photos some held by the GERS, some the NRM and some by the LCGB. Paul Edited August 1, 2018 by PaulG 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted August 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2018 Thank you for your efforts - I love that Page 1 of issue 1 has a photo of Shenfield - my chosen area to model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) I've just finished a couple of David's 4-wheel 3rds for my Colchester layout. The one on the right was placed on a brick plinth, with doors cut into the ends for access (note problem with photo not the door frame!), whereas the later addition on the left retained its under-frame. The vehicle on the left has to be fitted with a couple of roof lights/vents and both heavy distressed, with windows and doors boarded up. As I haven't any colour views of these vehicles I'm guessing they would have been painted "black" and by 1953, much of the old timber showing through. The kit went together fine, the roof etch wasn't an issue for me as by 1953 both vehicles had new canvas sheeting and all fittings and rain strips removed. In his notes, David mentions issues with the door vents; I just turned the etch face down on a cutting mat and with a suitable size flat screwdriver and a couple of hits with hammer, I think a suitable shape can be achieved! I just need David to finish the 6-wheel 3rd to fill the gap on the lower level and a NBR bogie carriage body (as photo) for the higher level. Paul Edited August 9, 2018 by PaulG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted August 10, 2018 Author Share Posted August 10, 2018 I've just finished a couple of David's 4-wheel 3rds for my Colchester layout. The one on the right was placed on a brick plinth, with doors cut into the ends for access (note problem with photo not the door frame!), whereas the later addition on the left retained its under-frame. The vehicle on the left has to be fitted with a couple of roof lights/vents and both heavy distressed, with windows and doors boarded up. As I haven't any colour views of these vehicles I'm guessing they would have been painted "black" and by 1953, much of the old timber showing through. The kit went together fine, the roof etch wasn't an issue for me as by 1953 both vehicles had new canvas sheeting and all fittings and rain strips removed. In his notes, David mentions issues with the door vents; I just turned the etch face down on a cutting mat and with a suitable size flat screwdriver and a couple of hits with hammer, I think a suitable shape can be achieved! I just need David to finish the 6-wheel 3rd to fill the gap on the lower level and a NBR bogie carriage body (as photo) for the higher level. Paul Brilliant. I was hoping someone would want to use these as grounded coach bodies, as the GER seems to have used a lot of such coaches as grounded bodies. Such a nice change from the Ratio GW 4-wheeler (a comparatively modern coach). They are looking really good. Interesting tip regarding the door vents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 I think this will do, the carriage bodies are at the back of the layout; I've gone for a faded black "livery", anyway it looks black in the black and white photos I have! The carriage body to the right was for the Running Foreman office, next to the shed masters office. The carriage body to the left was for the tube sweepers, boiler makers and engine cleaners mess. On the Foreman's office, it looks like they used old wagon sheets to cover damaged panels. Just waiting for David to produce the six wheeler for the driver and fireman mess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted August 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2018 I think this will do, the carriage bodies are at the back of the layout; I've gone for a faded black "livery", anyway it looks black in the black and white photos I have! The carriage body to the right was for the Running Foreman office, next to the shed masters office. The carriage body to the left was for the tube sweepers, boiler makers and engine cleaners mess. On the Foreman's office, it looks like they used old wagon sheets to cover damaged panels. Just waiting for David to produce the six wheeler for the driver and fireman mess. They look great! It's a shame such nice coaches have been treated that way - but that's what happened to them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulG Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 They look great! It's a shame such nice coaches have been treated that way - but that's what happened to them! I'm not sure in 1950's I'd want to travel on the GE main line in a four-wheel carriage built 70 years previous; 4-wheel carriages on preserved lines doing 25mph is at best "interesting"! Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted August 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2018 More comfy than the current crap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy2305 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 I think this will do, the carriage bodies are at the back of the layout; I've gone for a faded black "livery", anyway it looks black in the black and white photos I have! The carriage body to the right was for the Running Foreman office, next to the shed masters office. The carriage body to the left was for the tube sweepers, boiler makers and engine cleaners mess. On the Foreman's office, it looks like they used old wagon sheets to cover damaged panels. Just waiting for David to produce the six wheeler for the driver and fireman mess. They look spot on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 I think this will do, the carriage bodies are at the back of the layout; I've gone for a faded black "livery", anyway it looks black in the black and white photos I have! The carriage body to the right was for the Running Foreman office, next to the shed masters office. The carriage body to the left was for the tube sweepers, boiler makers and engine cleaners mess. On the Foreman's office, it looks like they used old wagon sheets to cover damaged panels. Just waiting for David to produce the six wheeler for the driver and fireman mess. Perfect Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy2305 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 These will do nicely... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted September 14, 2018 Author Share Posted September 14, 2018 The question of 4mm scale carriage door vents has been raised elsewhere on RMWeb, and I thought that it might be worth considering 3D-printed alternatives in the case of the GE coaches: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137523-carriage-door-vents-00-gauge/?p=3299761 Presumably they could be expoxied to a brass side? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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