Jump to content

Eveleigh Creations - Great Eastern 4 & 6-Wheel Coaches


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, David Eveleigh said:

If you have better drawings, would you share them with me please, because the Lyn Brookes drawing is the one that is included with the Gardner CD and that is all I have.   If you wouldn't mind sending me an email - better than clogging up the works here.

Thanks,

David

Hello again David, 

I hope you don't mind me posting here rather than by email. My reason for doing so is that someone may be able to help with information. 

 

Re drawings for the E4, the LB ones are pretty awful - I think the smokebox (at least as Gibson reproduced the drawing) has about three different outer diameters depending on the elevation. I don't have drawings for the cab and I doubt anyone within GE circles has any as the cabs were done at Doncaster; it's generally assumed (as on LB's drawing and in the Gibson etches) that the cab front was raised in the fashion of the J15s, that is, with a "banana"-shaped strip above the existing cab front. This is not true! - as a few seconds' perusal of photos in Yeadon shows (see, in particular, p. 45). Instead, the cab front was completely replaced and has a smooth curve on its upper edge rather than the three-centred curve of the J15s. On my Gibson rework I have scratchbuilt the front of the cab using (1) the existing spectacle position, (2) top of the cab sides, and (3) the top of the rebuilt cab at datum points, and shaped the curve on the cab front top to suit. The other error with the L-B/Gibson "Stainmore" cab is that the rear extension on the top of the cab sides doesn't extend back far enough. As with the cab front, 5 minutes with photos should have alerted L-B to the errors.  

 

There has been some discussion of the Gibson kit on the Scalefour forum in recent months, with some accurate dimensions for boiler pitch and diameter (both wrong on the Gibson kit).  

I hope this helps. 

Best, 

David. 

Edited by Daddyman
Link to post
Share on other sites

OK - I'll copy this to my file on these engines.   I would probably end up calculating measurements from photos anyway as they are often clearer than the sort of drawings which have been published in the magazines in the past.   Can you remind me of your name please and I can refer back to our correspondence by email?

I am not anywhere near doing the E4 yet as I don't have nearly sufficient interest at this stage, but if I do go ahead I will use whatever information people are able to share with me.

Best wishes,

David

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right - the person above has contacted me again by email so I know who I am talking to - excellent!

If anyone can point me towards pictures, particularly of the E4s in the Stainmore area - don't have any books about Ooop there - or can share scans with me surreptitiously by email I would be grateful.

Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, David Eveleigh said:

OK - I'll copy this to my file on these engines.   I would probably end up calculating measurements from photos anyway as they are often clearer than the sort of drawings which have been published in the magazines in the past.   

 

There are GA of both locos in the OPC collection at the NRM. The card number for the T28 is 9875 and the Class 1 is 13115. 

 

The NRM used to supply these drawings as digital downloads, but I don't what the position is at the moment. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

That is potentially useful - thank you.   I have another person who is trying to obtain some drawings for me to work to and they have not been replying to his attempts to communicate with them since March.  The NRM dislikes people using its drawings 'for commercial purposes', though I don't know if you would count my meager earnings as 'commercial'.   I laughed at your comment the other day where I guess you were aiming to sound 'realistic' and avoid me building up my hopes too much - I don't think I've sold as many as 30 of any of my kits except perhaps a very few - certainly not the six wheeled coaches which lots of people said they wanted.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@David Eveleigh Hi,

 

It's Tom, we've been talking via email re the E4 & Little Sharpie. I've been flicking through a lot of photo's for the E4's using the Yeadon's and various online cases and I've managed to find a number of photo's for you. I've attached the links to those photographs. Interestingly I found an E4 at Cambridge with the North Eastern style type of cab. 

 

 

 

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=66776 

 

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=66703 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15159066123 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Norton Wood said:

Interestingly I found an E4 at Cambridge with the North Eastern style type of cab. 

 

The locos left the NE area in the early 1940s and kept their larger cabs working on GE metals until the end of their lives, so there's nothing unusual about photos of them there. By contrast, the Transport Library images (there's another one at Kirkby Stephen) are rare - there seem to be few photos of the locos in the NE area.  

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi David, 

I'd have a little Sharpie, and probably a T26 (still thinking). In the meantime, I did some homework and found that Alan Gibson has some appropriate wheels for the Little Sharpie, I think:

driving wheels (5'7" original, 5'8" 1889-1893) 18 spokes (?) -> 4868

front and tender (3'8") 10 spokes (?) -> 4844

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

 

David, I know, is hoping to produce a kit in 4mm.

 

For those unfamiliar with the class, they were designed by SW Johnson; 29 were built by Sharp Stewart between 1867 and 1871, while 10 were built by Stratford 1869-1872. 

 

604564184_GER2-4-0No.1ClassLittleSharpieNo.160asbuilt1871Johnsongreenlivery.jpg.1df796f40de153a864b73fbd3536e689.jpg

No.160 as built

 

Adams is said to have fitted Ramsbottom safety valves, a closed dome (though retaining its central position) and stovepipe chimney, and this Adams condition is illustrated in the drawing of No.29 (see below), which also features a longer cab.

 

An intermediate stage seems to be the retention of the Johnson dome and original safety valve, but with stovepipe chimney and extended cab.  This is seen both in a photograph of Sharp-built No.160 and a drawing of Stratford-built No.113. 

 

839331699_GER2-4-0No.1ClassLittleSharpieNo_160.jpg.bcad09a071ae632ecb0c06b429312a65.jpg

No.160 in 'intermediate' condition

 

Holden rebuilt all of them between 1889 and 1893.  In this guise they would all have extended cab, Ramsbottom valves and stovepipes and the closed dome was mounted in a forward position.  

 

1533448226_GER2-4-0No.1ClassLittleSharpieNo.114ThetfordJunctionJuly1909.jpg.ae5e7458c08a2ff1e882213053861d8f.jpg

Stratford-built No,114 in Holden condition, 1909

 

I am aware of the following drawings:

 

No.1, Sharp Stewart (SS), 1867 in Holden condition.  This is a Maskelyne drawing.  I have reason to be cuatious, having seen the Dapol 7mm Terrier and original 4mm design based upon a Maskelyne drawing.  It does, however, give a front view, the only one I have. 

 

Then the following drawings appeared in the Edwardian Locomotive Magazine and are reproduced to 7mm scale in the Oakwood Press volume:

 

No.26, SS 1867: Original Johnson condition

No.29, SS 1868: Adams condition

No.43, SS 1868: Holden re-built condition

No.113, Stratford 1869: Semi-Adams/intermediate condition (see avbove)

No. 160, SS 1871: Original Johnson condition

 

I have all the above drawings scanned for anyone who wants them.

 

On 30/08/2020 at 21:37, David Eveleigh said:

I have had a couple of people express interest privately with firm orders for locomotives - I.e. they will put money up when I am ready to go ahead.   On that basis there is the possibility that I will be designing and having produced etched kits for :

 

Johnson No.1 class 'Little Sharpie' 2-4-0 (both original (Johnson cab, wing plates to the smokebox front, etc.) and rebuilt (new cab, plain smokebox, etc.) - these locos lasted in service from the 1870s to the early 1900s, the last one being withdrawn in 1913. 

 

'Intermediate' class T26 (LNER E4) 2-4-0 which lasted into the 1950s, including some of them working over the Stainmore line (if there is interest the larger cab could be offered as an added option) with one being preserved. 

 

I would be asking £90 for the loco etches and £50 for the tender in each case.   Boiler fittings, etc. would be made available separately via Shapeways.   I would need firm orders for at least eight kits (I.e. six more than the two I already have) of each type for either to take place.

 

The drawing work will take about one month where I would draw all the parts and compose them on the sheets.   As a part of the checking process I virtually fold up all the parts on the drawing, producing three elevations (two elevations and a plan) and then assemble all the parts to produce elevations for the complete kit.   This makes sure all the parts fit together.   I would ask people to pay 50% of the price before doing this work (as it is not worth proceeding without firm orders).

 

The two locomotives would each require three sheets of etch, one each for the loco bodies, the loco chassis and the tender.   Each loco and tender kit would cost me around £600 to bring it to production and I would be committing to that at the time I ask the etchers to process the drawings.   Therefore I would ask for the other 50% at that stage.

 

The etchers take around two months and if everything is satisfactory when I build the test etch they would start to be available from that stage - if I need to make adjustments it will take another couple of months - quite an involved process.

 

I would not be accepting money unless and until I have the required number of people prepared to proceed, but the projects are dependent on this support if they are to be done.

 

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

At David's request I spent a bit of time this evening looking through for photo's of the GER Little Sharpie & GER/LNER T26/E4. As to be expected there are a number of high quality photo's in the book The Mildenhall Branch by Peter Paye and in the Yeadon's LNER Register of Locomotives Volume 30. I have attached a few photo's below. 

IMG_2159.JPG

IMG_2160.JPG

IMG_2161.JPG

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings Earthlings,

Thank you for all the info.   Excellent.   I am told there is a good article about E4s by Alan Sibley in Model Railways magazine about 1984.   If anyone has a copy of this would it be possible to scan it for me and send it to me - I think this could be a pretty useful piece of information.

I have been chatting to the etchers today.   They have prepared the drawing for the Ffestiniog Small England engine etches I sent them in the summer and I am going to have some of those back in a month or less (hopefully, now they've done the difficult bit which is translating my drawing into masks or 'photo tools'.   Of more interest to lots of you is that there is going to be a big pile of four wheeled coach chassis with them.   If you've paid already (thank you) I will be sending them straight out.   If you haven't paid yet, I shall send you my bank details so hopefully we can do an electronic transfer.

Late 'Happy Solstice' greetings - and if you have the article about the E4s ...

  • Like 2
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, David Eveleigh said:

Greetings Earthlings,

Thank you for all the info.   Excellent.   I am told there is a good article about E4s by Alan Sibley in Model Railways magazine about 1984.   If anyone has a copy of this would it be possible to scan it for me and send it to me - I think this could be a pretty useful piece of information.

Greetings. 

I have the Sibley article. The accompanying drawing is pretty ropy in the area of the cab front and the Stainmore cab sides. 

Problem is, I don't have a scanner, so would have to take photos of it. If that's any use - or if no one else comes forward - I'll email them to you. 

Best, 

David.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I now have the drawing for the E4.   (Thank you.)   In conjunction with the photographs I now have I am sufficiently informed about the prototypes to be able to start on the kits - when I get time (which will be some time over the winter).   I have arranged with a friend to borrow a 4mm scale loco kit so I can measure it for spacer dimensions and how to arrange for bearings, etc. and I will send off an order to Gibsons for all the parts which seem to be applicable so I can design around what is available.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

S scale coaches

 

I have been asked to consider making some of my etched coach kits available in S scale (1/64).   I have put together some thoughts here.   As was the case with the 4mm kits which are now available, I need sufficient firm commitment to proceed.   If interested, please let me know.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.