Creating a believable freelance pre-Group company

[Johnson044]

Depends on how cruel you were feeling towards the passengers- a hairdrier probably kinder.

 

[Hando]

20 hours ago, Johnson044 said:

Hando- I know geographically they are miles away but your Scillonian railways remind me so much of two Yorkshire lines- the Aberford Railway, which relied for the most part on some small MW saddle tanks (think they were class H, so a little bigger) - and used them for a regular passenger service- and I also wondered if, given their maritime climate and nautical history whether the islanders ever experimented with sail power? The Slaters F class has had mixed reviews- mainly, I think, connected with the original design, which had a Faulhaber motor and intricate gear train, which was prone to accumulating muck and difficult to assemble. I get the impression that the later kits, which will take a Branchlines motor and gearbox are much better. I got hold of a second hand one, part built, with the original motor / gearbox combo but I guess I got a good one as so far she's behaving herself. 

Thanks for this.

The Aberford Railway is undoubtedly one of my favourite backwater lines! And I did take some inspiration from it. It's amazing to think that such a short railway could afford four locos and even a carriage over its lifetime!

 

As for the sail bogies on the Spurn Head Railway, maybe I could feature some for the St Martin's line, which runs mostly along the coastline. I might consider using that for "off-peak" travel on the line, with the "peak services" drawn by horse.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Hando

[Corbs]

On 03/02/2021 at 16:57, Johnson044 said:

The off the shelf designs can look startlingly different in a new livery- if history is re-written very slightly then a loco intended for one company could be bought by another because the company that placed the original order got into financial trouble. The Cambrian ordered a number of small 4-4-0's from Sharp Stewart but some went to the Furness -I've assumed that my own fictitious company got them instead- so here's a green one! Bought her very early stage part-built and a bit mangled. I kept the cab, chimney, footplate and much of the tender as a good starting point. The rest developed during the first lockdown. I must get her finished.

That looks gorgeous.

[1165Valour]

On 03/02/2021 at 11:57, Johnson044 said:

The off the shelf designs can look startlingly different in a new livery- if history is re-written very slightly then a loco intended for one company could be bought by another because the company that placed the original order got into financial trouble. The Cambrian ordered a number of small 4-4-0's from Sharp Stewart but some went to the Furness -I've assumed that my own fictitious company got them instead- so here's a green one! Bought her very early stage part-built and a bit mangled. I kept the cab, chimney, footplate and much of the tender as a good starting point. The rest developed during the first lockdown. I must get her finished.

Very nice!

 

What's the name of your company? The name has me thinking somewhere around Shropshire...

[Hando]

I've been having a think and in regards to my rolling stock and I've decided I'm gonna ditch the Terriers (which would be a bit overkill for such a short line as pointed out by @whart57) and keep the Manning Wardles on St Mary's. Although, I will still maroon the Hudswell Clarke on Tresco; but instead as part of a leasing agreement instead of a sale by the SMR to the Tresco Granite Company (owning a quite substantial quarry).

St Martin's would remain a loco-free island (except for maybe for later on with a petrol-mechanical loco like a Motor-rail big turtle or a Hunslet Sweet-Pea).

The St Mary's Railways, then under the control of the Isles of Scilly Railway in the 1920s, would also see a four-wheel Fowler and a big turtle (this could be the one sent to St Martin's?). I also feel that by that point in my alternate universe, the Tresco Granite Company's now substantial quarry would have chosen to replace their Hudswell Clarke with a diesel or petrol loco.

 

I also decided that the Scillonians would have considered converting the St Mary's Railway into an electric tramway at the end of the 19th century, but the proposal was never adopted (I like trams, but I don't want to go in that direction in terms of my layout or lore).

Edited June 16, 2021 by Hando

[Johnson044]

On 11/02/2021 at 12:25, Corbs said:

That looks gorgeous.

Thank you, Corbs

[Johnson044]

On 11/02/2021 at 12:36, GWRSwindon said:

Very nice!

 

What's the name of your company? The name has me thinking somewhere around Shropshire...

Hi GWRSwindon- It's all still a bit nebulous, I'm afraid as my main interest has been loco and stock building and the geographical niceties have, to date been rather put on the back burner. However, a space for a small layout has become available and I've accumulated a reasonable stack of PW equipment so hopefully a start soon- and I shall get my finger out and start to put some maps and a potted history together. In answer to your question, though, you're dead right- it's certainly Border Counties but a little further south. The Ledsham and Hereford Railway is a minor secondary cross-country line that headed roughly east-south-east from Hereford, crossing the Severn and, very much against the grain of the countryside, eventually reaching Oxfordshire. All at some point between about 1885 and 1895, and of a similar sort of size and genre to the Maryport and Carlisle, Midland and South Western Junction or Stratford upon Avon and Midland Junction railway. As I say, it's still pretty nebulous.  The locos are all named after the Shropshire hills, purely because I love them so, and I'm assuming a major shareholder did too. Nameplates are by Narrow Planet BTW.

[Johnson044]

Might be wrong but I don't think anyone's mentioned the Jarvis brothers on this thread so far? They produced the most beautiful 0 gauge clockwork models in the years up to the start of WW2- many of them freelance, but very plausible- and all in the livery of their own company. All to what certainly looks like what we'd now call fine scale. Mainly named after Scottish mountains or lochs as a consistent theme.

[Johnson044]

...I say mainly- "Hecla", the Jarvis Brothers' scale model of a Sharp Stewart Brecon and Merthyr / West Somerset Mineral Railway long boiler type is the exception. Very lovely model and far ahead of its time. I believe it had a rebuilt Hornby clockwork mechanism and the scale reversing lever in the cab had a linkage to reverse the clockwork drive.

[Johnson044]

Wonder what became of them. 

 

[Schooner]

The year is 1865. The setting, The Ship at Brimscombe, Gloucestershire. 

There is a proposition being put forward, you've been told, which may be of interest...and lucrative. Naturally, you went.

 

The gathering is small, a half-dozen people seated in the back room. Small perhaps, but influential - industrial concerns along the valleys South to Nailsworth, East past Stroud to Stonehouse, and West towards Cirencester are represented, as are canal company and carriers. Consipicuous by their absence, any of the three railway companies with interests in the region.

 

Your host is direct: it is no secret that the Stonehouse and Nailsworth Railway is already in financial difficulty. Construction started a year a go, and it is on schedule to open in under two years from now, yet they are said to be seeking support from the Midland Railway Company. Recall, if you will, how quickly the Midland took the Bristol and Gloucester Railway after it opened. It is also a matter of public knowledge that the Thames and Severn Canal is loosing traffic to the railways, and water to longstanding drainage and maintenance issues. The word is that the Midland is preparing an offer to buy the canal, and if the loose talk of a surveyor for that Company in this very room is to be believed, they intend to fill the canal in and run rails along it's length. In this way they hope to continue to challenge the Great Western in the area. 

 

These are not problems for the individual companies concerned, the speaker continues, but an opportunity for the community respresented here this evening. He has a plan, it seems.

 

'Gentlemen, I warn you. It is ambitious, and doubtless you will be sceptical. I ask that you hear me out, weigh the benefits against the costs, and only then make your judgement...'

 

The Plan begins with the purchase of the Stonehouse and Nailsworth Railway by a joint committee of the Stroudwater Navigation and the Thames and Severn Canal. The railway is already well in hand and they need help. It will provide good value. The Canal Company will voluntarily close beyond Cirencester, which will form the terminal of T&SC, and the canal will form the the trackbed of a new line - there is information on the Midland's plans in the regard, it seems, saving time and money and once again allowing good value to be had from the costs incurred. There is minimal through-traffic on the Canal, it will be no great loss. Having access to the network of railways spreading across the country, however, will be invaluable.

 

This new line, owned by the Stroudwater Navigation and Thames and Severn Canal and Associated Interests Railway Company which will represent all those gathered here this evening, will run from exchange sidings to be built at Stonehouse. These give access to the Midland and Great Western, as seen in this map showing the planned route of the Stonehouse and Nailsworth Railway:

 

The other end of the line is to be South of Cirencester, with exchange sidings to the Great Western and Midland and South Western Junction Railway*:

*it got a two-decade headstart in this universe

 

The main route is proposed to go through Stroud, splitting from what will become the Nailsworth Branch at Dudbridge. In this we can lean on the Midland's work again - here is their plan:

 

Our line, however, would be continued, via Brimscombe and Sapperton Tunnel, the whole route already surveyed and deemed viable and proposed thus:

 

A distance of some 15 miles as the crow flies, nothing in the grand scheme of things, would enable your mills, gentlemen, to thrive. Access by water and by rail, to the ports not only of Gloucester and Bristol, but of Southampton and even London too; access to markets across half the country and, indeed, half the world. The Canals would no longer be in competetion with the railways, but working in concert with them - each able to complement the other. By owning both, we can all profit at every turn...

 

&c...

 

Well, it's not remotely likely that such an event ever took place but the background is correct and I need an excuse for my layout  - a rail-served canal wharf in this area, no later than 1900.

 

Is it the sort of backstory parishoners could swallow?

 

Too much free time...

 

Schooner

 

[mpeffers]

On 14/02/2021 at 12:19, Schooner said:

*it got a two-decade headstart in this universe

This scheme seems relevant here:

http://swindonsotherrailway.co.uk/chrismsr.html

 

My own freelance scheme approaches Cirencester from the other side, supposing the East Gloucestershire Railway completed its link between Cheltenham and Oxford and operated it as an independent concern. There's an early map here of the scheme:

http://www.canbush.com/eastglos.jpg

 

Completing the route doesn't seem too outlandish as most of it was eventually built:

• Witney to Fairford by the EGR itself;
• Cirencester to Andoversford by the Swindon and Cheltenham Extension Railway (which merged with the Swindon, Marlborough and Andover Railway to form the MSWJR - incidentally, their Act also included provision for a Cirencester - Fairford link);
• Andoversford to Cheltenham by the Banbury and Cheltenham Direct Railway.

Perhaps in an alternate universe, the Midland and backers of the SCER and BCDR would have lent their support to the EGR's scheme in order to see useful sections of their own routes completed, presumably with favourable terms of access negotiated.

 

The EGR's independence is probably more of a stretch. The GWR operated the Fairford Branch, but were staunchly opposed to the through route; I'm not sure that the LNWR would be that interested in essentially a long extension to the Buckingham Railway and the SMAR/MSWJR likely lacked the resources or inclination to take it on. If you assume that the Midland's interests stopped at the divergence of the MSWJR from the EGR just north of Cirencester and that they didn't see the Cirencester - Oxford arm as sufficiently lucrative to make antagonising the GWR and LNWR by appearing in Oxford worth their while, you do start to run out of other options...

 

I'm going with it anyway. I sat on the fence for a bit, but frankly it seems like a slightly lower-pressure route to cutting my teeth in kit-building, scratch-building and RTR-modding that are skills I would definitely need to develop if I intend to do any more prototypical pre-grouping modelling in the future.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by mpeffers

[Johnson044]

A little progress with the freelance double-framed goods.The tender is starting to come together. Basically the underframe is a series of nesting layers with some false inner frames that the shortened axle ends run in,which means I can avoid having un-prototypical inside frames. Still a long way to go. I'm not happy with the front steps and may try to flare them into the footplate at the top a bit more. I found some etched coal sheets that will fit on topof the tender flare and make it look less LNWR- I think they will give the tender a certain Maryport and Carlisle-ish look, but I'm not yet convinced they will look right.

[Johnson044]

Had another go at lettering a local POW wagon. Having finished one side I felt like something different and - well- you can't see both sides at once! It's an elderly Slater's Gloucester 6 plank wagon that I've backdated by replacing the sprung buffers with dumb buffers. The Francis Bliss side is based on a Frederic Biss wagon. Both sides are taken from characters in the Merrily Watkins series of books by Phil Rickman, dealing with the adventures of the Hereford Diocesan Exorcist.

[Johnson044]

The "W" on the G.Parry side needs re-doing, I think. 

 

The works plates are Kirtley Products printed paper ones, which aren't bad but they scale out at about gauge 1 so need to be reduced on the photocopier. The brake ratchets are Ambis etched ones.

[Caley Jim]

Like the full size H/N plate in the background!

 

Jim

[1165Valour]

Here's an idea: Have the OW&WR/West Midland avoid absorption with the GWR, and then absorb the Shropshire Union Railway and Canal Company. Then, have them build a railway over the canal, giving you a main line from Birkenhead to Oxford.

[Johnson044]

That does make a lot of sense GWRSwindon. Wish i'd thought of it!

[Edwardian]

What I'd like to see, freelance, is a step or two up from the West Norfolk Railway, which is itself a step or two up from the 'Light Railway' or pre-Act equivalent. 

 

I'd like to see a company big enough to have its own locomotive designs (whether built internally or by outside contractors, or, indeed, both).

 

Naturally, me being me, I have an unrealised plan for one, the North South Junction Railway, which heads through a highly fictionalised version of the East Midlands linking the LNWR in the south (Monk's Eaton)  with the GNR to the north (Snottingham), upsetting the MR and rendering the subsequent LNW-GN Joint redundant (much as I like that line).

 

Given an infinite number of parallel universes, anything's possible!

[whart57]

Well when I'm not working on my Thai layout or getting distracted by a 1:32 scale 18" gauge tramway, I am still working on the Surrey Railway c.1875. This is in effect the Redhill-Reading line and the Mitcham Junction to Horsham line (with running powers into Victoria) imagined as being operated by a company independent of the SER, LBSCR or LSWR. The full story is earlier in this thread.

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by whart57

[1165Valour]

I've been trying to come up with a location and backstory for the "Great Northern and Southern Railway" as depicted in the The Railway Children film from 1970. My current idea is some kind of line taking the place of the GN&GE Joint. It's also rather fun to have a railway so far from Swindon adopting pannier tanks.

[Curlew]

Has anyone mentioned the Lancashire, Derbyshire & East Coast Railway or the Manchester and Milford? Both have massive potential for expansion without changing their names in any way. Even the Bishops Castle and the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire had grand plans. All would have needed lots more and very different motive power for a larer network though.

 

The Oxford, Worcester & Wolverhampton did try and get its own independent route into London. I have a map somewhere, but typically can't find it.

[Nile]

There's a copy of it here .

[CKPR]

1 hour ago, Curlew said:

he Shropshire & Montgomeryshire had grand plans

aka The Potteries, Shrewsbury and North Wales, so plenty of scope for expansion east and west of Shrewsbury.

[whart57]

To come back to my Surrey Railway idea, what do people think of trimming off the Berkshire bit and letting the GWR have Reading to Aldershot?