TMC announce NER G5 0-4-4T

[Steamport Southport]

Very nice. But how many do you think they will sell and how much would it cost? That's where the reality bites.

 

No price on the G5 yet, but over £150 I would guess. We are looking at nearly £200 for the CR 0-6-0 as a commission and many have already said that's too much for an 0-6-0. I would reckon much more for a commissioned B16.

 

£200 for the blue version of the CR 812. £180 for a black one. That's for a popular preserved locomotive that were built in numbers and survived well into BR days.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/35628/Bachmann-35-284z-oo-gauge-caledonian-railway-blue-mcintosh-812-class-0-6-0-steam-locomotive-no-828-as-preserved-

 

Also the fact that quite a few of the B16s were heavily rebuilt probably doesn't help. No preserved examples either.

 

The best bet would be trying to persuade one of the regular manufacturers such as Hornby or Bachmann that there is demand. I just wouldn't hold your breathe.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[mikemeg]

23 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Very nice. But how many do you think they will sell and how much would it cost? That's where the reality bites.

 

No price on the G5 yet, but over £150 I would guess. We are looking at nearly £200 for the CR 0-6-0 as a commission and many have already said that's too much for an 0-6-0. I would reckon much more for a commissioned B16.

 

£200 for the blue version of the CR 812. £180 for a black one. That's for a popular preserved locomotive that were built in numbers and survived well into BR days.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/35628/Bachmann-35-284z-oo-gauge-caledonian-railway-blue-mcintosh-812-class-0-6-0-steam-locomotive-no-828-as-preserved-

 

Also the fact that quite a few of the B16s were heavily rebuilt probably doesn't help. No preserved examples either.

 

The best bet would be trying to persuade one of the regular manufacturers such as Hornby or Bachmann that there is demand. I just wouldn't hold your breathe.

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

Jason,

 

I think your posting above, really does get to the crux of this.

 

Most of the prestigious, widespread, well known (if not famous) and very popular prototypes have been covered by the r-t-r suppliers. Couple that with the fact that the market (generally though not universally) now demands a much greater level of accuracy and detail, which, along with DCC provision, has led to ever higher prices, even with 'reduced' Chinese levels of cost. This obviously reduces the appeal of many models to would be purchasers and also reduces the potential returns, to the r-t-r suppliers, of producing smaller numbers of the more geographically restricted or numerically limited prototypes.

 

As to the production of a r-t-r B16, specifically; as well as the very valid reasons you quote for not so doing, there are technical issues with this prototype - the swing on the front bogie fouling the cylinders, two different boilers fitted, etc. - which might also affect its production. Looking at the flyer which TMC have produced for their G5, there are quite a number of detailed options and liveries available, covering the lives of these locomotives, which must affect the production costs and hence, the selling price.

 

The B16/1, which I built (and another in build) were/are test builds - as was one of the D20's, the J25 and one of the A6's - so the kit cost was 'minimal'. Even so, with wheels, motor and gearbox, additional/replacement castings, etc. I probably spent around £120 on the B16/1 model shown. Taking the worst case on this B16/1 kit cost - let's assume a price of £180 (and I really don't know what this will be!!) then this model can be built for an outlay of something between £250 and £300. For the D20's the the model can be built for < £250 and the A6 < £200.

 

So, notwithstanding the ability to build these etched (or white metal) kits, then the relative costs between build and buy are approaching parity. However, the r-t-r costs are rising much more quickly than the costs of building as the kits do not include DCC provision or the labour cost of providing multiple options on build and livery (other than the provision of different etches, castings, etc.)  as the builder is expected to assemble/provide these. Clearly, if a build is commissioned, from a professional buider, then these costs are appreciably higher and, as they are labour related, are rising almost as quickly as r-t-r costs.

 

I model in P4 and I chose P4 for its scale accuracy and, more importantly, because I was determined to learn to build. To build track, locos, rolling stock, signals, etc. which I have largely done. Initially, that choice meant that my models were more expensive than r-t-r. Now, having learned to build, means that I - and anyone else - can build things which the r-t-r suppliers will probably never produce i.e. A6, A7, A8, B16/1, B16/2 & /3, C6, C7, D17, D20, J21, J24, J25, J26, J27, J71, J73, J77, Q5/1, Q5/2, Q7, Tenant, T1, etc. Certainly, with the signal models, then I doubt the r-t-r suppliers could produce them!

 

It's a broad church and we all enter and stand, in that broad church, via different doors and in different places.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by mikemeg

[Legend]

On 27/06/2019 at 16:16, Steamport Southport said:

Very nice. But how many do you think they will sell and how much would it cost? That's where the reality bites.

 

No price on the G5 yet, but over £150 I would guess. We are looking at nearly £200 for the CR 0-6-0 as a commission and many have already said that's too much for an 0-6-0. I would reckon much more for a commissioned B16.

 

£200 for the blue version of the CR 812. £180 for a black one. That's for a popular preserved locomotive that were built in numbers and survived well into BR days.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/35628/Bachmann-35-284z-oo-gauge-caledonian-railway-blue-mcintosh-812-class-0-6-0-steam-locomotive-no-828-as-preserved-

 

Also the fact that quite a few of the B16s were heavily rebuilt probably doesn't help. No preserved examples either.

 

The best bet would be trying to persuade one of the regular manufacturers such as Hornby or Bachmann that there is demand. I just wouldn't hold your breathe.

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

 I think it all depends on who you commission the model with .  I agree that £200 for an 0-6-0 is pushing it , apparently because of the complex livery. The Hornby J36 Maude has just as complex a livery although it’s not so obvious as it’s black.  Another example of a commission might be Rails and Dapols Terrier . I can’t remember the price there but I think it’s something reasonable  and there’s quite a few intricate liveries there.  So I think it’s down to who you contract with . 

[9402 Fredrick]

Is the G5 model in the drawing office or has it moved a bit further in progress as of late?

[No Decorum]

On ‎03‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 16:19, 9402 Fredrick said:

Is the G5 model in the drawing office or has it moved a bit further in progress as of late?

It’s still in the drawing office according to the latest Bachmann Times.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

3 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

It’s still in the drawing office according to the latest Bachmann Times.

Not to late to suggest the optimum drive layout then. As much tungsten as possible packed in forward of the rear driven axle, motor in the firebox, DCC decoder socket in the rear of a side tank or the bunker.

[9402 Fredrick]

Just looked up some more info on 35-257Z 67322, and it was a push-pull fitted engine.

[The Black Hat]

On ‎26‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 13:41, it's-er said:

Many thanks to mikemeg for his photos - such superb modelling!

 

And I agree about the J21, A8 and B16, but looking forward meantime to TMC's G5 and to Oxford Rail's J27.

 

John Storey

 

If I were to make suggestions on which models should follow the G5 and J27 then mine would be (for North East Region):

 

For main ranges:

J21 / J25

BR standard 2MT

B16 (all variants)

BR Standard 3MT

Q7
A8

J39

 

Special Commissions
 

Q7

D17
Aerolite
S+D "Old Gentleman's Saloon"

 

On ‎27‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 16:16, Steamport Southport said:

Very nice. But how many do you think they will sell and how much would it cost? That's where the reality bites.

 

No price on the G5 yet, but over £150 I would guess. We are looking at nearly £200 for the CR 0-6-0 as a commission and many have already said that's too much for an 0-6-0. I would reckon much more for a commissioned B16.

 

£200 for the blue version of the CR 812. £180 for a black one. That's for a popular preserved locomotive that were built in numbers and survived well into BR days.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/35628/Bachmann-35-284z-oo-gauge-caledonian-railway-blue-mcintosh-812-class-0-6-0-steam-locomotive-no-828-as-preserved-

 

Also the fact that quite a few of the B16s were heavily rebuilt probably doesn't help. No preserved examples either.

 

The best bet would be trying to persuade one of the regular manufacturers such as Hornby or Bachmann that there is demand. I just wouldn't hold your breathe.

 

Jason

 

As prices rise and popular subjects are covered by an number of different companies that are now making models, it will make some look to see what can be done next. Bachmann have stated for some time that they wish to avoid big engines being made, as they prove to be more costly. Hence the number of smaller steam engines made.

 

Also, the fact that some of these commissions are done that way will mean that other companies need to take their cut from the sale and as a result this will inflate the price. An engine that is a commission at about the £180-200 ceiling, could be about £150-180 as part of a general range. If this were to follow Bachmanns logic and then the costings could be smaller for J21, but B16 could be more expensive. However, if you can design in the ability to model all three variants into the project - then B16 suddenly becomes a very viable project.

 

[The Black Hat]

Any further developments on this as Rails are reporting some with their model commissioned at the same time.

[tmc]

On 05/09/2019 at 10:12, The Black Hat said:

Any further developments on this as Rails are reporting some with their model commissioned at the same time.

 

Hello,

 

This project is progressing nicely and as soon as we have something tangible to share with you we will. 

 

All the best,

TMC

[Edwardian]

Funny, I had just decided to check for news on the TMC site. Expected November 2020 and no price as yet.  Doubtless paranoid, but I always worry that I have failed, somehow, to have pre-ordered when I think I have when I receive no communications. 

 

All good things come to they that wait, however, and I look forward to any update in the meanwhile.    Wish TMC all the best with progress. 

 

EDIT: I still think the smart thing would be for Bachmann to design the gubbins such that it would also fit a BTP (G6) in due course, but, frankly, I'd be surprised and grateful in about equal measure if they did. 

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Edwardian

[MarkC]

On 10/09/2019 at 13:06, Edwardian said:

 

 

EDIT: I still think the smart thing would be for Bachmann to design the gubbins such that it would also fit a BTP (G6) in due course, but, frankly, I'd be surprised and grateful in about equal measure if they did. 

 

That'll be about right - I'm almost finished repairing/completing my eBay 'rescue' of a G6...

 

Nice model there, by the way, Edwardian.

 

Mark

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, MarkC said:

That'll be about right - I'm almost finished repairing/completing my eBay 'rescue' of a G6...

 

Nice model there, by the way, Edwardian.

 

Mark

 

Thanks, Mark.  I have a weakness for Fletcher engines and BTPs in particular, but am still a novice when it comes to kit building, so I can only take credit for a successful Ebay purchase in this instance!

 

But seriously, what's not to like in a G6? Charisma on wheels, and a Really Useful Engine with long lives in service.    

[MarkC]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Thanks, Mark.  I have a weakness for Fletcher engines and BTPs in particular, but am still a novice when it comes to kit building, so I can only take credit for a successful Ebay purchase in this instance!

 

But seriously, what's not to like in a G6? Charisma on wheels, and a Really Useful Engine with long lives in service.    

Oh definitely. They're lovely looking locomotives, albeit an utter nightmare to model correctly, having so many variables within (allegedly) one class, such as wheel diameters, splasher details, boilers...

 

Mind you, was there a truly ugly NER locomotive? OK, the Stumpf S2 wasn't exactly drop dead gorgeous, but even that one had a certain charisma...

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎22‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 11:25, MarkC said:

...Mind was there a truly ugly NER locomotive? ...

Most of the breed were very neat indeed. Sadly, I think it is the Raven pacific that was the lowest point, Ungainly and ill proportioned, unlike its Atlantic predecessors. (Never understood all the raving about the Robinson atlantics, NER Z later LNER C7, perhaps the most beautiful of the UK atlantics.)

[tractionman]

On 08/04/2019 at 16:30, AmpleCharms said:

Is there an arrival due date for the G5. Its been a long wait for some of us?

 

idly looking at TMC web-site this afternoon I see a date of Nov 16 2020 is mentioned, fwiw.

 

https://www.themodelcentre.com/35-252z-11

 

cheers,

 

Keith

 

 

[The Black Hat]

Any news on the G5? Just seeing that the Rails engine announced at the same time has samples...

[D9020 Nimbus]

The latest Bachmann Times states that it's now in the tool room; previously it was at the research stage. Perhaps it was at a less advanced stage when announced; also there isn't (yet) an actual example to scan, so research may take longer—and there are a number of different styles of bunker too.

 

I suspect the date suggested by TMC may be a bit optimistic…

[it's-er]

The first samples of the G5 have not yet arrived with TMC.  I asked informally yesterday at Model Rail Scotland, and they are still hoping for end of this year, but of course subject to whatever transpires over Coronavirus/Covid19.

 

John Storey

[nathan70000]

Well for the first time ever I've pre ordered an item - Botanic Garden's very own 2082. There are certainly more important things going on in the world at the moment so I don't expect to see it until next year but it's something to look forward to at least! I'm hoping the price doesn't go much over £169 which would be my guess.

[aardvark]

On 21/02/2018 at 19:16, Andy Y said:

The Model Centre ['TMC'] have commissioned Bachmann to produce an OO gauge model of the LNER G5 0-4-4T locomotive.

...

Another group was transferred to Scotland primarily for employment on pilot duties at Aberdeen and Inverurie Works, as well as at Keith and on the Banff branch

....

 

35-258Z LNER G5 Class 0-4-4T Tank 67327 BR Lined Black Early Emblem with Westinghouse Pump and 2 rail Cage back bunker [ Scottish Region loco]

 

 

Sorry Andy - only just seen your post, but perhaps well timed as the G5s are due later this year.

 

I'm interested in your statement that some where to be found on the Banff branch.  I see that 67292 was allocated to Keith.  Do you recall where you got your info?

 

cheers

[Worsdell forever]

http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=600705053&loco=1914

 

Plus Yeadon (vol 38, p57) shows it at Kieth from March 1941.

[aardvark]

On 27/04/2020 at 19:21, Worsdell forever said:

http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=600705053&loco=1914

 

Plus Yeadon (vol 38, p57) shows it at Kieth from March 1941.

 

Thanks WF.  I knew that 67292 was allocated to Keith: I was wondering how @Andy Y determined that it ran on the Banff branch.

 

Perhaps I'm missing something.

[Worsdell forever]

4 minutes ago, aardvark said:

 

Thanks WF.  I knew that 67292 was allocated to Keith: I was wondering how @Andy Y determined that it ran on the Banff branch.

 

Perhaps I'm missing something.

 

Andy will have copied a press release.

[mdvle]

33 minutes ago, SAXONIA said:

What is the expected delivery date on the G5

?. I don't mind what colour since I'll repaint it if necessary

 

A post on p9 from February 22nd said that the poster was told they hoped to have samples by the end of this year - if that holds true then delivery won't be until sometime in 2021 I would guess.