RAILS ANNOUNCE CALEY 812 CLASS 0-6-0s

[amdaley]

17 minutes ago, Mad McCann said:

While the loco looks ok, that tender coping is a bit 'wtf?'

 

We've waited nearly four years for this...

 

Davy.

It's a very elimentary mistake for the price being charged. 

 

[Mad McCann]

On the strength of this, I suspect I'll be cancelling my CR liveried order and using some of the saving from that to order two Sparkshot tender bodies for the BR ones.

 

Davy.

[PaulRhB]

 

On 30/10/2021 at 02:35, Ben Alder said:

Interesting video, thanks. Loco looks great but I'm not impressed by the thickness of the tender tops, which doesn't capture the Caley tenders appearance at all well. Here is a snatch from the video and a couple of crops to illustrate what I mean.

 

There look to be two different tops? There looks to be a flat on the BR tender top that carries on down the curve and it’s not apparent in the CR pic? It might be hidden by the contrast of the black lining though in the photo. 

 

On 24/10/2021 at 08:23, Jenny Emily said:

 

 

 

On 28/10/2021 at 13:57, Jenny Emily said:

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by PaulRhB

[Corbs]

Nah it be thicc

[Fireline]

The cab hand rails seem to be a lot thicker than scale, as well. Going to check the front of my house, to see if any of the scaffolding is missing....

[Corbs]

Wonder how difficult it would be to replace with normal handrail wire.

[JonathonAG]

From watching the video several times, my own views:

 

Pros :

 

1. The livery application is exceptional on the Caledonian versions we've seen so far.  Obviously the Black versions are also to a high standard, but the overall basic design of those post-CR schemes means it should be very difficult to get wrong.

2. Pre fitted speakers on all versions.  That is a god send for anybody who is into the basics of DCC sound, without wanting the fuss of self fitting speakers.  This could mean, for those who are purchasing multiple models over the different eras which may not be run together, there could be a saving of buying only one fitted with sound, and swapping the chip over to the desired model when wanting to run it with the noise.

3.  The sounds themselves, appear rather good from what I can gather from Jenny's video.  My fear with sound files for steam is that the beat of each revolution begins to sound rather machine-gun fire and tinny when above the prototypical 30mph range.  While not seeing too much higher speed running on the tests in video, it does appear to be a bit easier on the ear than some offerings from elsewhere.

4.  The price, so far, hasn't increased yet again.

 

The Cons:

 

1. That tender flare.  Covered more than  enough by previous posts, but certainly confusing to see in this era when Hornby are knocking out similar flared tenders with no compromise.  Having handled more J36's from Hornby than is safe to admit to the better half, and recently altering two SR Class 700s into a J35 and J37, none suffered any damage to the flared areas of the tender.  This is especially impressive on the 700 tenders, which required the upper sides of the flares cut away and new coal rails and supports added.  There should be no need for that amount of extra plastic on the 812's.

2.  Thickness again, this time on the cab handrails and smokebox turning wheel.  The former is rather oblong and thick, whereas in reality it's perfectly cylindrical.  The smokebox door dart was previously brought up several months ago, and again is disappointing to see that it hasn't been addressed.  'Caley Coaches' may need to restock on their far superior brass versions, as I can see many taking a scalpel to the original and replacing it with the mucher finer detail.

3. Price.  Are we getting a fantastic model for value?  Jury is out.  As said elsewhere, the locomotive body itself is very near high detail standards of this day minus the criticisms of point 2, but the tender is very Hornby Dublo.  It's fine when RTR models produced by the big brands from 30 years ago are being surpassed by home 3d prints, the same shouldn't be said for new releases now.  Is £200 for the CR Blue versions justified if the customer feels they need to cut away and replace certain pieces for it to match up alongside a similar model of similar release generation?

 

I'm torn on this.  On the one hand, the Caledonian livery application is far beyond what I could achieve and so I'm likely to keep that order in for the preserved 828.  As for my 57566 order, having to spend another £30 for a 3d printed tender body in attempt to paint match it seems like a lot of trouble, especially for something that should have been correct when leaving the factory.

Edited November 1, 2021 by JonathonAG

[Mad McCann]

It's one of the bigger disappointments of recent modelling times as far as I'm concerned.

There is no way I could replicate that quality of paint finish on a replacement tender so, it's ta ta to that particular pre order. 

Can't really justify that expense when I need the money for a multifuel stove. 

 

Davy.

[Legend]

1 hour ago, JonathonAG said:

From watching the video several times, my own views:

 

Pros :

 

1. The livery application is exceptional on the Caledonian versions we've seen so far.  Obviously the Black versions are also to a high standard, but the overall basic design of those post-CR schemes means it should be very difficult to get wrong.

2. Pre fitted speakers on all versions.  That is a god send for anybody who is into the basics of DCC sound, without wanting the fuss of self fitting speakers.  This could mean, for those who are purchasing multiple models over the different eras which may not be run together, there could be a saving of buying only one fitted with sound, and swapping the chip over to the desired model when wanting to run it with the noise.

3.  The sounds themselves, appear rather good from what I can gather from Jenny's video.  My fear with sound files for steam is that the beat of each revolution begins to sound rather machine-gun fire and tinny when above the prototypical 30mph range.  While not seeing too much higher speed running on the tests in video, it does appear to be a bit easier on the ear than some offerings from elsewhere.

4.  The price, so far, hasn't increased yet again.

 

The Cons:

 

1. That tender flare.  Covered more than  enough by previous posts, but certainly confusing to see in this era when Hornby are knocking out similar flared tenders with no compromise.  Having handled more J36's from Hornby than is safe to admit to the better half, and recently altering two SR Class 700s into a J35 and J37, none suffered any damage to the flared areas of the tender.  This is especially impressive on the 700 tenders, which required the upper sides of the flares cut away and new coal rails and supports added.  There should be no need for that amount of extra plastic on the 812's.

2.  Thickness again, this time on the cab handrails and smokebox turning wheel.  The former is rather oblong and thick, whereas in reality it's perfectly cylindrical.  The smokebox door dart was previously brought up several months ago, and again is disappointing to see that it hasn't been addressed.  'Caley Coaches' may need to restock on their far superior brass versions, as I can see many taking a scalpel to the original and replacing it with the mucher finer detail.

3. Price.  Are we getting a fantastic model for value?  Jury is out.  As said elsewhere, the locomotive body itself is very near high detail standards of this day minus the criticisms of point 2, but the tender is very Hornby Dublo.  It's fine when RTR models produced by the big brands from 30 years ago are being surpassed by home 3d prints, the same shouldn't be said for new releases now.  Is £200 for the CR Blue versions justified if the customer feels they need to cut away and replace certain pieces for it to match up alongside a similar model of similar release generation?

 

I'm torn on this.  On the one hand, the Caledonian livery application is far beyond what I could achieve and so I'm likely to keep that order in for the preserved 828.  As for my 57566 order, having to spend another £30 for a 3d printed tender body in attempt to paint match it seems like a lot of trouble, especially for something that should have been correct when leaving the factory.

 

Fair appraisal I think . I'm DC so speakers etc dont do anything for me . I was impressed by the synchronisation of the firebox glow and sound  .

 

I wasnt aware of issues over tender thickness but it wont spoil my enjoyment of this model . It is a shame given they have a price tag of £180 for black versions and £200 for blue , given that the Hornby J36 could be had for £110. I think Maude was £135 with  its more intricate lining , but of course that was fitted with TTS , which I disconnected. 

 

If you want a Caley 812 its the only show in town though and so through gritted teeth I'll be parting with the cash . 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Legend

[Eddie the dog]

That’s the trouble sometimes of reading too much on threads such as this unfortunately.

I hadn’t noticed the tender thickness until it was pointed out.

It may come down to the scale of each tender relatively compared to each other, but it is 

disappointing that Bachmann have made a better job on the C1’s & H1 Atlantic’s.

[Legend]

16 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Sorry duplicated post . Its either me or computer going haywire!

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Legend

[E100]

17 minutes ago, Eddie the dog said:

That’s the trouble sometimes of reading too much on threads such as this unfortunately.

I hadn’t noticed the tender thickness until it was pointed out.

It may come down to the scale of each tender relatively compared to each other, but it is 

disappointing that Bachmann have made a better job on the C1’s & H1 Atlantic’s.

Hahaha. Same I hadn't noticed. I will still get the 2 Caly blue ones but unsure on the additional BR black version when this could be a good opportunity to go for it in kit form. Painting and lining are my weaknesses but BR black isn't too daunting.

[Wheatley]

13 hours ago, Mad McCann said:

On the strength of this, I suspect I'll be cancelling my CR liveried order and using some of the saving from that to order two Sparkshot tender bodies for the BR ones.

 

Davy.

If I'd ordered a black it would be getting cancelled too but Mrs Wheatley wanted a blue one to sit in a case because 'it's pretty' and she won't notice the tender top or the Stillbrew cab sides. Also I thought I really ought to do my bit for Scottish RTR. Won't make that mistake again, not by pre-ordering anyway. 

 

My existing Caley Coaches one and the as yet half-started Caley/Sparkshot hybrid one will do for my layout needs.  

Edited November 1, 2021 by Wheatley

[amdaley]

1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

If I'd ordered a black it would be getting cancelled too but Mrs Wheatley wanted a blue one to sit in a case because 'it's pretty' and she won't notice the tender top or the Stillbrew cab sides. Also I thought I really ought to do my bit for Scottish RTR. Won't make that mistake again, not by pre-ordering anyway. 

 

My existing Caley Coaches one and the as yet half-started Caley/Sparkshot hybrid one will do for my layout needs.  

 

I'd say you won't be alone 

[amdaley]

On 08/09/2021 at 14:15, Oliver Rails said:

Update from Bachmann:

 

We are pleased to report that production is complete on all our exclusive models of the Caledonian 812, LNWR Precedents and LNER V2s.

 

Due to the current shipping / container issues happening in China they are simply waiting for a container for all three models to shipped to the UK. A container is booked towards the end of the month. This means that if all goes to plan we are likely to see the models arrive with us towards the end of November.

 

Further updates will follow once shipped and we should be able to share the ship tracking information so all can see the current location of the models.

 

Order books are almost full so pre-ordering is highly recommended. A big thank you to everyone who has ordered so far.

 

Oliver

 

 

 

I've just seen close up photographs of the Bachmann Caledonian 812 which you are bringing out.

What happened with the tender top which is far too thick & bears no resemblance to the prototype ?

As for the cab handrails, they look like scaffold poles ?

Someone obviously wasn't paying attention.

Very disappointing, so much so that I will be cancelling my pre order.

[Ben Alder]

You can get a passable one by working on the Hornby 700.

 

[luckymucklebackit]

11 hours ago, JonathonAG said:

From watching the video several times, my own views:

 

Pros :

 

1. The livery application is exceptional on the Caledonian versions we've seen so far.  Obviously the Black versions are also to a high standard, but the overall basic design of those post-CR schemes means it should be very difficult to get wrong.

2. Pre fitted speakers on all versions.  That is a god send for anybody who is into the basics of DCC sound, without wanting the fuss of self fitting speakers.  This could mean, for those who are purchasing multiple models over the different eras which may not be run together, there could be a saving of buying only one fitted with sound, and swapping the chip over to the desired model when wanting to run it with the noise.

3.  The sounds themselves, appear rather good from what I can gather from Jenny's video.  My fear with sound files for steam is that the beat of each revolution begins to sound rather machine-gun fire and tinny when above the prototypical 30mph range.  While not seeing too much higher speed running on the tests in video, it does appear to be a bit easier on the ear than some offerings from elsewhere.

4.  The price, so far, hasn't increased yet again.

 

The Cons:

 

1. That tender flare.  Covered more than  enough by previous posts, but certainly confusing to see in this era when Hornby are knocking out similar flared tenders with no compromise.  Having handled more J36's from Hornby than is safe to admit to the better half, and recently altering two SR Class 700s into a J35 and J37, none suffered any damage to the flared areas of the tender.  This is especially impressive on the 700 tenders, which required the upper sides of the flares cut away and new coal rails and supports added.  There should be no need for that amount of extra plastic on the 812's.

2.  Thickness again, this time on the cab handrails and smokebox turning wheel.  The former is rather oblong and thick, whereas in reality it's perfectly cylindrical.  The smokebox door dart was previously brought up several months ago, and again is disappointing to see that it hasn't been addressed.  'Caley Coaches' may need to restock on their far superior brass versions, as I can see many taking a scalpel to the original and replacing it with the mucher finer detail.

3. Price.  Are we getting a fantastic model for value?  Jury is out.  As said elsewhere, the locomotive body itself is very near high detail standards of this day minus the criticisms of point 2, but the tender is very Hornby Dublo.  It's fine when RTR models produced by the big brands from 30 years ago are being surpassed by home 3d prints, the same shouldn't be said for new releases now.  Is £200 for the CR Blue versions justified if the customer feels they need to cut away and replace certain pieces for it to match up alongside a similar model of similar release generation?

 

I'm torn on this.  On the one hand, the Caledonian livery application is far beyond what I could achieve and so I'm likely to keep that order in for the preserved 828.  As for my 57566 order, having to spend another £30 for a 3d printed tender body in attempt to paint match it seems like a lot of trouble, especially for something that should have been correct when leaving the factory.

 

 

Would like to see how you converted SR700s to J35s and J37

 

Jim

[GNR Dave]

I'll be keeping my order for the 'As built blue' version. If the tender top bothers me, I'll scrape a scalpel along the top edge to round it off a little and blow it in with some black paint. Similarly, the 'scaffolding poles' at the back of the cab are a simple replacement with brass rod. I know it's a £200 loco, but the rest of it looks so good that I think a relatively easy fix is worth the effort.

[ikcdab]

21 hours ago, Eddie the dog said:

That’s the trouble sometimes of reading too much on threads such as this unfortunately.

I hadn’t noticed the tender thickness until it was pointed out.

It may come down to the scale of each tender relatively compared to each other, but it is 

disappointing that Bachmann have made a better job on the C1’s & H1 Atlantic’s.

I agree. For me it's the overall look of a model, not the exact details that make or break it. Obviously, if the details offend you so much that you just can't stomach the model, then that's up to the individual.

I never cease to be amazed by people who get upset at the little details yet are happy to run them on track that bears little resemblance to the prototype.

[Corbs]

2 hours ago, GNR Dave said:

I'll be keeping my order for the 'As built blue' version. If the tender top bothers me, I'll scrape a scalpel along the top edge to round it off a little and blow it in with some black paint. Similarly, the 'scaffolding poles' at the back of the cab are a simple replacement with brass rod. I know it's a £200 loco, but the rest of it looks so good that I think a relatively easy fix is worth the effort.

Could also paint the edges of the cab sides black to disguise them, as the blue highlights the thickness.

[iak]

Sadly, I cancelled my order last night. Regrettably, the issues with the tender and cab are things that I could not ignore. Some will be fine with them but a picky  like me?

I hope it is still a success mind and that some illuminating lessons are learned - please...

Edited November 2, 2021 by iak

[turbos]

I’m definitely getting my pre ordered one, life is too short to get hacked off about wee details that I’ll no notice when it’s hauling my heavily rebuilt/bodged Triang coaches with tension lock couplings on incorrectly spaced rails on incorrectly spaced sleepers etc. I’m quite sure to my eyes it’ll look superb, but will I regret not upgrading to a sound version?

Brian.

 

[Butler Henderson]

And a matter of losing £30 if you cancel.

[micklner]

Personally I believe Rails saying they will not return £30 deposits is totally wrong , is it even legal ? I personally dont know the answer , but I do wonder.

 

If the item is sold not as advertised (which I presume is covered on the intial listing/advertising? ) then below applies

 

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product-aTTEK2g0YuEy#how-long-do-i-have-to-return-a-faulty-product

 

Rails have had my £30 for about 3 years for the NER railcar, I will wait and see what eventually is offered for sale. I know already that the preview photos of the LNER version the model is  wrong,  as they do not have a very prominent exhaust system fitted onto the Roof, as in the photos shown by Rails on the intial listing/advertising when annnounced. Rails have also ignored the same question on the NER railcar thread and cancellation emails from me after seeing the version shown.

 

I do know, I will not pre order anything again, certainly not from Rails, ever again.

[amdaley]

I contacted Rails about the questionable details which showed up in the photos & below is the reply I received.

 

"Thank you for your email, this is only snap shots from the youtube video and not actual footage. We are hoping to release some images ourselves fairly soon.

You are welcome to cancel the preorder but as stated on the website in the terms and conditions deposits are non refundable, please let me know if you wish to go ahead with the cancellation?"

 

I will wait until I see the Rails photos before deciding whether to cancel or not.

If having seen Rails photos I am still unhappy then I will cancel.

Yes I will lose the £30 deposit but that is down to me for having trusted Rails / Bachmann to get the model right. If I do have to cancel be assured it will be the last time I will be pre ordering anything from them.

 

On a side note & to illustrate what can be done I recently purchased one of these A/001 Class  Diesel Electric locomotives from Irish Railway Models https://irishrailwaymodels.com/collections/a-class-locomotive

The level of detail & features would put other manufacturers to shame. Below I list some of the features & details.

 

Common Features:

Highly detailed OO scale model

Heavy Die-Cast metal chassis

Separately applied steel detail parts, including grab handles, steps, wipers and more

Correct height mini-tension-lock couplers with NEM socket

Five-Pole motor with two flywheels

Metal Helical Gear box for maximum performance and slow speed running

Gearing arranged so locomotive can achieve a scale top speed of 130 km/h

DCC ready with PowerPack capacitor for uninterrupted power

Two quality speakers with large sound capsules for best possible sound

Fully detailed Lighting Pack, including:

Directional lighting, DC and DCC

Marker lights can be turned off when train is coupled to loco

high beam headlight function

separately switched cab lighting and illuminated, details driver’s console

Engine bay lighting

RP25-110  OO wheels with provision for re-gauging to 21mm gauge

Rotating axlebox hubs (with alternate axlebox covers for earlier versions)

Fully sprung metal buffers

Extra fine factory-fitted pipework

Extra fine factory-fitted plastic and etched steel detail parts

Minimum Radius 438mm (2nd Radius Set-track)

Length over Buffers 203mm.

 

That was all achieved for a cost of approx £160 / €189 which shows what can be done if the will is there.

To say that the model ran like a swiss watch out of the box would be an insult to the model which I'm sure that anyone on here who has bought one will attest to.

This is the level which must be achieved if people are expected to shell out £200 with non refundable deposits.

I have no connection with this company other than a very satisfied customer.