amdaley Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 Rails were going to put up some offical photos of the model but their version of Photoshop is out of date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted November 6, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2021 People seem so keen to rush to judgement based on a single photograph is all I'm saying. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 1 minute ago, JohnR said: People seem so keen to rush to judgement based on a single photograph is all I'm saying. Time will tell? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgeconna Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 On 02/11/2021 at 18:36, amdaley said: I contacted Rails about the questionable details which showed up in the photos & below is the reply I received. "Thank you for your email, this is only snap shots from the youtube video and not actual footage. We are hoping to release some images ourselves fairly soon. You are welcome to cancel the preorder but as stated on the website in the terms and conditions deposits are non refundable, please let me know if you wish to go ahead with the cancellation?" I will wait until I see the Rails photos before deciding whether to cancel or not. If having seen Rails photos I am still unhappy then I will cancel. Yes I will lose the £30 deposit but that is down to me for having trusted Rails / Bachmann to get the model right. If I do have to cancel be assured it will be the last time I will be pre ordering anything from them. On a side note & to illustrate what can be done I recently purchased one of these A/001 Class Diesel Electric locomotives from Irish Railway Models https://irishrailwaymodels.com/collections/a-class-locomotive The level of detail & features would put other manufacturers to shame. Below I list some of the features & details. Common Features: Highly detailed OO scale model Heavy Die-Cast metal chassis Separately applied steel detail parts, including grab handles, steps, wipers and more Correct height mini-tension-lock couplers with NEM socket Five-Pole motor with two flywheels Metal Helical Gear box for maximum performance and slow speed running Gearing arranged so locomotive can achieve a scale top speed of 130 km/h DCC ready with PowerPack capacitor for uninterrupted power Two quality speakers with large sound capsules for best possible sound Fully detailed Lighting Pack, including: Directional lighting, DC and DCC Marker lights can be turned off when train is coupled to loco high beam headlight function separately switched cab lighting and illuminated, details driver’s console Engine bay lighting RP25-110 OO wheels with provision for re-gauging to 21mm gauge Rotating axlebox hubs (with alternate axlebox covers for earlier versions) Fully sprung metal buffers Extra fine factory-fitted pipework Extra fine factory-fitted plastic and etched steel detail parts Minimum Radius 438mm (2nd Radius Set-track) Length over Buffers 203mm. That was all achieved for a cost of approx £160 / €189 which shows what can be done if the will is there. To say that the model ran like a swiss watch out of the box would be an insult to the model which I'm sure that anyone on here who has bought one will attest to. This is the level which must be achieved if people are expected to shell out £200 with non refundable deposits. I have no connection with this company other than a very satisfied customer. I got my Deposit back on the D class so lucky there so. I've given up on mad rush of must have Pre ordering from the 'Shops' TBH. Seems to be lots of hassle...they mostly come out again at some stage... Ala APT E.... 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 They will have to refund because Oliver Rails said you can get it refunded if the price goes up. It has so you can cancel with no panalty. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted November 6, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 6, 2021 Well I’m continuing with mine but only through gritted teeth as I really want it. But I do think it’s overpriced considering it’s a basic 0-6-0. While I’m sure Bachmann will claim it’s an elaborate livery , it’s no more elaborate than Maude ,Some £65 cheaper and it had `TTS ,only difference is it’s blue instead of black, I understand people wanting refunds but I’ll continue with mine 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.Uni Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 1 hour ago, meatloaf said: They will have to refund because Oliver Rails said you can get it refunded if the price goes up. It has so you can cancel with no panalty. When the price was confirmed, you were asked if you wanted to 'approve the price change or cancel your pre-order'. That was the time to cancel and get the deposit back. If you approved the price change and now want to cancel, you've lost the deposit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry.ecmr Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 I've ordered the sound fitted early BR version and managed to see it in the flesh at the Hornby show in Milton Keynes. I have to say that that the noted shortcomings were not apparent to me. I thought it looked a lovely model. It's only the close up/angled photos that show up the tender and cab issues. As mine will run sideways on, with a viewing angle of about 30 degrees above the horizontal these won't issues will not show up significantly so I'm sticking with it. On the wider issue I think this is just in keeping with the times we live in. You order things online without actually seeing them in the flesh, whether it be a loco, a hat or a pump for your pond. But I think with most things if it doesn't meet up with your expectations you send it back. However, unlike the GWR gas turbine loco which appears to have running issues, if the Caley loco runs properly but has a couple of design issues who decides if it's fit for purpose? I think one solution could be as follows for future projects...... You place a small deposit when an item is announced, say 10%. When the final finished prototype examples are produced the photos of these are published and, at that point, you commit to the model by paying say another 40%. When the model is ready for dispatch you pay the other 50%. If you are not impressed with the prototype photos you get the 10% back. I can understand companies needing commitment from potential customers but they are in business and sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate. The company only gets a refundable 10% until they get it right. But they get 50% prior to actually producing the model towards production costs. Obviously if it doesn't work properly on delivery that's a different thing. ....just my thoughts. 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nunc Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 One query I have about the BR sound equipped version is that on Jenny’s You Tube review the loco appears to have a Westinghouse brake pump going constantly, whereas these were removed from the real engines not long after the Grouping. It is right, of course, for the Caley blue engines. The screenshot of the instructions seems to show no way of switching this off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Nunc said: One query I have about the BR sound equipped version is that on Jenny’s You Tube review the loco appears to have a Westinghouse brake pump going constantly, whereas these were removed from the real engines not long after the Grouping. It is right, of course, for the Caley blue engines. The screenshot of the instructions seems to show no way of switching this off. Not so. Here’s a picture of the modelled loco with a Westinghouse pump in BR days: https://davidheyscollection-static.myshopblocks.com/images/cm/174130c85036924dd0226a1258a9dbbe.jpg OK, the model doesn’t have a pump, and I agree the screenshot doesn’t show how, but I would expect the pump sound could be turned off. (The screenshot doesn’t seem to be of the complete instructions.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 Rails say they hope to have the model in stock by the end of the month so any Rails official photos will have to wait until then. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Popular Post AY Mod Posted November 11, 2021 Moderators Popular Post Share Posted November 11, 2021 I've got the lovely as-built version on the desk at the moment for review. The finish and decoration is excellent; it performs beautifully and it's got a well-balanced weight and quality feel. With regard to the cab handrail it's less obvious on a front three-quarter view and not at all from a side-on elevation. It's designed that way for robustness and that's achieved. Looking at that from the rear three-quarter view you can see where the compromise has to be made. Does it offend when looking from a normal distance under normal light? No, not at all. Moving onto the tender top flare as illustrated in the image above. Does it differ from the prototype? See https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-llangollen-railway-ex-caledonian-railway-812-class-0-6-0-no-828-at-47964815.html Yes. But you can't get that 'thin-ness' with a plastic moulding. Yes, it could be disguised or mitigated but it's difficult with the curved faces around the curved rear of the tender in particular with regard to tooling. Yes, the recent D Class had a finer edge to it but when you look carefully it can be seen that the rear of the tender is actually a separate part from the mould and it can be done that way - less so with curved faces. As the area of concern is all black on all models does it offend when looking from a normal distance under normal light? No. It's more obvious on my image above than it is in reality as it's all black in that area (my lighting is designed to capture small differences in surfaces). And. yes, if it's an issue it will be possible to take sanding sticks to carefully take the edge of the internal angle of it to mitigate it. Anyway; it's a stunner and I hope customers enjoy their purchases. 21 4 5 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Out of curiosity, just what is the actual thickness of the curved area on the model-about 1mm? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted November 11, 2021 Moderators Share Posted November 11, 2021 1 minute ago, 69843 said: Out of curiosity, just what is the actual thickness of the curved area on the model-about 1mm? It's just under 2mm across the width of the tender edge. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted November 11, 2021 Administrators Share Posted November 11, 2021 On 07/11/2021 at 09:26, terry.ecmr said: I can understand companies needing commitment from potential customers but they are in business and sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate. That does assume that customers accept that the company that speculates is allowed to get a return on that investment. However, the number of posts on here in various threads explaining why it's important for companies to make a profit, suggests that there are plenty who don't. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry.ecmr Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Phil Parker said: That does assume that customers accept that the company that speculates is allowed to get a return on that investment. However, the number of posts on here in various threads explaining why it's important for companies to make a profit, suggests that there are plenty who don't. Absolutely Phil. I'm trying to look at this from both sides. The producer will not get much return if a high percentage of products are returned for refunds, whether or not the deposit is refunded. I've also floated the idea that, once the manufacturer produces an pre production example the customer pays a further 40% to help fund the production. I know there probably isn't a solution that satisfies everyone but at the moment there appears to be a bit of an unsatisfactory situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted November 11, 2021 Administrators Share Posted November 11, 2021 1 hour ago, terry.ecmr said: I know there probably isn't a solution that satisfies everyone but at the moment there appears to be a bit of an unsatisfactory situation. The solution is no more preorders. A model comes out and people buy or not. Of course this would dramatically slow the rate new models appear at as you'd want the income from Model A before investing in Model B, but the monthly arrival of new models is a relatively new thing and the hobby survived with 2 or 3 new announcements each year. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neil Posted November 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2021 The model looks stunning, despite the compromises. Recently on another forum about a different model which had come in for some nit picking criticism, I suggested that if one was such a connoisseur that the compromises necessary in its manufacture offended then one should already have taken the time and trouble to equip oneself with the skills and attitude to remedy the perceived flaws. I think the same holds true here. I'd bet a pound to a penny, that when seen on a layout it won't be the loco that lets the show down. 5 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted November 11, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2021 9 minutes ago, Neil said: I'd bet a pound to a penny, that when seen on a layout it won't be the loco that lets the show down. My view entirely. If you dont mind the rails being too close together (and I dont), then you wont mind something like this. 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted November 13, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2021 I'm really glad I didn't get the CR livery version now, because to paint those lined frames black would get me lynched! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Any word on when orders are likely to be shipped? Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted November 14, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, luckymucklebackit said: Any word on when orders are likely to be shipped? Jim Last I heard was that they were due into stock at the end of November. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted November 15, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2021 Seems so good and to repay the faith in it from the word go. A return Saturday afternoon spin from Aviemore two years ago behind her in a rake of ex BR Mk 2is fondly remembered. This morning I’m having an opportunity to catch up with much of the forum that I’ve been missing over the last few weeks,being stuck in the cardio unit of the N.Staffs.after open heart valve surgery…..currently with just one feeding tube……looking at the above images is a sight to gladden the eyes.Well done Rails who seem on a roll atm and of course our friends down the road at Barwell. 1 18 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted November 15, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2021 8 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said: Seems so good and to repay the faith in it from the word go. A return Saturday afternoon spin from Aviemore two years ago behind her in a rake of ex BR Mk 2is fondly remembered. This morning I’m having an opportunity to catch up with much of the forum that I’ve been missing over the last few weeks,being stuck in the cardio unit of the N.Staffs.after open heart valve surgery…..currently with just one feeding tube……looking at the above images is a sight to gladden the eyes.Well done Rails who seem on a roll atm and of course our friends down the road at Barwell. Kind of puts 2mm thick tender valances in perspective . Wishing you well 5 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted November 15, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2021 0 On 07/11/2021 at 09:26, terry.ecmr said: I've ordered the sound fitted early BR version and managed to see it in the flesh at the Hornby show in Milton Keynes. I have to say that that the noted shortcomings were not apparent to me. I thought it looked a lovely model. It's only the close up/angled photos that show up the tender and cab issues. As mine will run sideways on, with a viewing angle of about 30 degrees above the horizontal these won't issues will not show up significantly so I'm sticking with it. On the wider issue I think this is just in keeping with the times we live in. You order things online without actually seeing them in the flesh, whether it be a loco, a hat or a pump for your pond. But I think with most things if it doesn't meet up with your expectations you send it back. However, unlike the GWR gas turbine loco which appears to have running issues, if the Caley loco runs properly but has a couple of design issues who decides if it's fit for purpose? I think one solution could be as follows for future projects...... You place a small deposit when an item is announced, say 10%. When the final finished prototype examples are produced the photos of these are published and, at that point, you commit to the model by paying say another 40%. When the model is ready for dispatch you pay the other 50%. If you are not impressed with the prototype photos you get the 10% back. I can understand companies needing commitment from potential customers but they are in business and sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate. The company only gets a refundable 10% until they get it right. But they get 50% prior to actually producing the model towards production costs. Obviously if it doesn't work properly on delivery that's a different thing. ....just my thoughts. T o which I will add the relevant questions of complexities of cost and operation of this . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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