Black 5 Bear Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said: Seems so good and to repay the faith in it from the word go. A return Saturday afternoon spin from Aviemore two years ago behind her in a rake of ex BR Mk 2is fondly remembered. This morning I’m having an opportunity to catch up with much of the forum that I’ve been missing over the last few weeks,being stuck in the cardio unit of the N.Staffs.after open heart valve surgery…..currently with just one feeding tube……looking at the above images is a sight to gladden the eyes.Well done Rails who seem on a roll atm and of course our friends down the road at Barwell. Best wishes Ian. Get well soon ! 3 2 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Battledown Posted November 18, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 18, 2021 Being a lover and modeller/cpllector of pre-grouping locomotives, I have the Improved Precedent 'Lucknow' and the as-built Jumbo on order. Looking at photos of the two you would be forgiven for thinking they are from different manufacturers, which I guess they are in that I cannot believe they come from the same factory in China. The Precedent looks as close to an out-of-the box finescale model as can be expected for plastic and cast metal, whereas the Jumbo looks like a toy train that has been tarted up - way overscale tender coping, cabsides, cab handrails and smokebox dart, over-sized handrail knobs. It just looks too toy train like. As a keen kit builder and modeller I will be able to address most of these issues if the actual model turns out to be as per the photographs. Even though I can afford it, I resent having to do this to such an expensive model seeing that Bachmann and Rails can and do produce better. That said, building pre-grouping models from kits is even more expensive. I have recently completed an etched brass Adams T3 which actually cost me about £300 and over 500 hours of my time - a price I am happy and able to pay for such a great hobby. 11 1 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andytrains Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 (edited) I have ordered two of 57565 to be re-numbered. Luckily I picked up two Caley Coaches McIntosh 3000 gallon tender, Type M2, for a song, so they may be very useful! Looks like these two are going to me my Crimble Pressie from Wife and M in Law. (The locos). Edited November 18, 2021 by andytrains 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 The instruction leaflet is on the Bachamnn web site https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/file/E3528-Class-812-2021.pdf which advises the tender fitting cab doors should only be fitted for display. The sound fitted leaflet https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/file/E3528-Class-812-SF-2021.pdf advises the decoder is a ESU Loksound Micro V5DC 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 I see the motor is a coreless one. These seem to have had mixed reactions - are any other recent Bachmann locos so fitted, and how are their running abilities? The cab doors were almost always in the open position, as seen in this crop,and presumably can be done so. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 34 minutes ago, Ben Alder said: I see the motor is a coreless one. These seem to have had mixed reactions - are any other recent Bachmann locos so fitted, and how are their running abilities? The cab doors were almost always in the open position, as seen in this crop,and presumably can be done so. Most of the recent smaller locomotives have coreless motors. They're very good as long as you have a suitable controller. Just don't use any ancient controllers and ones with feedback. It's a bit like trying to watch a 4K Ultra HD movie on your 1950s TV. The results are going to be disappointing. Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 49 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: It's a bit like trying to watch a 4K Ultra HD movie on your 1950s TV. The results are going to be disappointing. I can't get replacement valves for my old TV either 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andytrains Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 See:- https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p704337679/h4F62F2FE#h808da843 For tender details and thinness! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted November 19, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2021 1 hour ago, andytrains said: See:- https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p704337679/h4F62F2FE#h808da843 For tender details and thinness! Quite clear from that picture that we were never going to get a tender that thin in plastic. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted November 19, 2021 Moderators Share Posted November 19, 2021 Has someone been rewinding the tape again whilst I was out? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvoryGreen456 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 does anyone know when these are due to be shipped off to the people who've ordered one? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted November 19, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2021 Last I heard, they are due into Rails at the end of this month. I understand they are now contacting people with expired cards to get their details updated in readiness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 6 hours ago, JohnR said: Quite clear from that picture that we were never going to get a tender that thin in plastic. No doubt, in plastic at least, but here is what Hornby managed with their Drummond tender. And Bachmann's offering on their C class. Both in a different league to what is present on the 812, which does not begin to meet what is the norm for current releases. 3 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 On 18/11/2021 at 22:47, Ben Alder said: I see the motor is a coreless one. These seem to have had mixed reactions - are any other recent Bachmann locos so fitted, and how are their running abilities? The cab doors were almost always in the open position, as seen in this crop,and presumably can be done so. I think I should eat a small portion of humble pie. My experience of Bachmann’s 1Ps is that they run superbly. Both are, however, sound fitted. I don’t think I would dare run a coreless motor with my existing principal controller unless I first installed a decoder. A decoder for DC running? Yes. I think I wrecked one of my DJ Austerities by running it a lot on DC. The three others have decoders installed and seem fine, although they aren’t worked hard. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold franciswilliamwebb Posted November 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2021 13 hours ago, Ben Alder said: Both in a different league to what is present on the 812, which does not begin to meet what is the norm for current releases. You're spot on, there. I'm hoping the 812 is a one-off rather than the herald of a new 'design clever' era at Barwell. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cessna152towser Posted November 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2021 21 hours ago, No Decorum said: I think I wrecked one of my DJ Austerities by running it a lot on DC. The three others have decoders installed and seem fine, although they aren’t worked hard. Surely if a loco is advertised as analogue it ought to run smoothly on analogue. If a coreless motor would only work smoothly on digital then the analogue version of the model should be fitted with a traditional motor. I run 100% analogue on an HM2000. I once bought a Bachmann D11 digital loco because it was offered cheaper than the analogue version. I left the blanking plate in place and donated the chip to a fellow modeller who had gone digital. The D11 needed a lot of power before it would move, then it would suddenly race away at unrealistic speed. I assumed this was because it was designed for digital and I resold it fairly quickly. I would hate to think that the analogue 812 which I have ordered would suffer the same problems. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, cessna152towser said: Surely if a loco is advertised as analogue it ought to run smoothly on analogue. If a coreless motor would only work smoothly on digital then the analogue version of the model should be fitted with a traditional motor. I run 100% analogue on an HM2000. I once bought a Bachmann D11 digital loco because it was offered cheaper than the analogue version. I left the blanking plate in place and donated the chip to a fellow modeller who had gone digital. The D11 needed a lot of power before it would move, then it would suddenly race away at unrealistic speed. I assumed this was because it was designed for digital and I resold it fairly quickly. I would hate to think that the analogue 812 which I have ordered would suffer the same problems. One would think that. We are warned that coreless motors should not be used with feedback controllers or electronic track cleaners. If the only controller you have is a feedback controller, then, as I see it, you need to buy a new controller. Alternatively, fit a decoder to your locos equipped with coreless motors. You will also need to disconnect your track cleaner or fit a switch to it and remember to use it. The reason a coreless motor is chosen is because it is small and possibly also because it is cheaper. However, Hornby has produced small locos with small conventional motors. If you want a particular model which happens to have a coreless motor, there are workarounds. It isn’t ideal but it’s what we’ve got. Perhaps it’s a little like adopting DCC. Models without decoders shouldn’t be put on DCC energised track but there are workarounds. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cessna152towser Posted November 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, No Decorum said: If the only controller you have is a feedback controller, then, as I see it, you need to buy a new controller. Alternatively, fit a decoder to your locos equipped with coreless motors. If that's the case then I will be cancelling my order. Nobody said anything about a coreless motor when I pre-ordered almost four years ago and I won't be going down the digital chip route ever, nor do I intend to go to the expense of a new controller to suit Bachmann's whims. Edited November 21, 2021 by cessna152towser 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry 84F Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Good afternoon all, Apologies if I've missed this somewhere; I can't find this info on the Rails website either. Do we know what kind of decoder it will need? Will it be 18 pin? Looking forward to mine, Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 3 hours ago, cessna152towser said: Surely if a loco is advertised as analogue it ought to run smoothly on analogue. If a coreless motor would only work smoothly on digital then the analogue version of the model should be fitted with a traditional motor. I run 100% analogue on an HM2000. I once bought a Bachmann D11 digital loco because it was offered cheaper than the analogue version. I left the blanking plate in place and donated the chip to a fellow modeller who had gone digital. The D11 needed a lot of power before it would move, then it would suddenly race away at unrealistic speed. I assumed this was because it was designed for digital and I resold it fairly quickly. I would hate to think that the analogue 812 which I have ordered would suffer the same problems. It should work perfectly on analogue. Just not ancient controllers out of the Ark* and many feedback controllers. Also don't use track cleaners. I would expect a HM2000 to be fine. Isn't that the type Hornby sell? Hornby aren't giving any warnings about coreless motors, whereas Gaugemaster and others do if they aren't compatible. Gaugemaster have been phasing feedback controllers out for some time. https://uk.Hornby.com/products/hm-2000-analogue-controller-r8012 *If you are using a 50 year old controller isn't it time you bought a new one? Your models will thank you. Jason 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 4 hours ago, No Decorum said: The reason a coreless motor is chosen is because it is small and possibly also because it is cheaper. Plus this below. It would seem that our friends in the east currently find them much easier to make than the conventional motor. As we are but a tiny part of the market I suspect that we will have to accept them. Or pay a heck of a lot more. A cost that will quickly render the cost of a new controller for many mass purchasers on here look like pocket money Bernard Why Use a Coreless Motor? The coreless or Moving Coil motor has been around since the 1930s. Advances in manufacturing made them practical and cost effective in the 1960s. No cogging torque Smooth position and speed control High efficiency Low Noise High torque Low Weight Very low rotor inertia Dynamic start-stop operation Construction The construction of a coreless DC motor eliminates the laminated iron core of the rotor. Instead, the rotor windings are wound in a skewed, or honeycomb (known as the Faulhaber winding) fashion, forming a self-supporting hollow cylinder or basket. Because there is no iron core to support the windings, they are often held together with epoxy. The stator is made of a rare earth magnet, and sits inside the basket. All of the core produces torque and smooths operation. The design also produces high acceleration rates. Advantages This design allows for a motor with low inertia and high efficiency. Coreless motors can accelerate and decelerate much more rapidly than a traditional motor. Eliminating the iron rotor also reduces torque ripple or cogging. The motor operates smoothly, even at low speeds. The lack of iron in the rotor also reduces the total mass of the motor. Reduced noise. High Efficiency: Efficiencies of up to 85% are possible with less heat produced in operation, compared to >50% for an iron core motor. Extended brush life Low time constant, meaning faster response. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Do Hornby use coreless motors? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted November 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, Ben Alder said: Do Hornby use coreless motors? In some of their models, yes. Everyone does, as far as I know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tractionman Posted November 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Henry 84F said: Good afternoon all, Apologies if I've missed this somewhere; I can't find this info on the Rails website either. Do we know what kind of decoder it will need? Will it be 18 pin? Looking forward to mine, Henry Some discussion of DC by @Jenny Emily in the vdeo above, see cheers, Keith c Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 1 hour ago, JohnR said: In some of their models, yes. Everyone does, as far as I know. Which ones? I have never seen one, even the diminutive Ruston and Rocket have a skew wound motors. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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