RAILS ANNOUNCE CALEY 812 CLASS 0-6-0s

[Ian Hargrave]

5 hours ago, cessna152towser said:

If that's the case then I will be cancelling my order.

Nobody said anything about a coreless motor when I pre-ordered almost four years ago and I won't be going down the digital chip route ever, nor do I intend to go to the expense of a new controller to suit Bachmann's whims.

The coreless v can contest believe it or not has been with us since the last century.I first became aware of it when I purchased an HO Trix set in 1998 which contained a loco powered by a Faulhaber coreless motor. I then used a feedback controller. The retailer asked what controller I used and promptly advised me not to use it. 
 

   So I immediately reequippd with a Gaugemaster D which I have used since successfully with both types of motor and have not used the feedback since. With regards to Bachmann’s decision,it is rather unfortunate that you describe them as whims. Rather the use is decided by both current model and electrical engineering development.We are obliged to use what the factories in China make available to us.That’s a given,like it or not I’m afraid..

 

A pointed but for some a painful issue and I make no apologies for it. We spend literally shedloads of money on our little treasures but baulk at spending on a new controller such as a Gaugemaster to run it. The world turns and how many 1998 cars are currently on the road ? Do you drive one ?  How many times must I hear the plaint   “It won’t run with my controller “ ?  The word on the street should be “ upgrade “. Try eBay if you want one cheaper or grasp the nettle and contact Gaugemaster for advice ( I have no commercial interest btw ).
 

     I know it’s difficult but it’s now the third decade of the 21st C and many exquisite new models are either here or imminently expected yet we srill choose to use electronic equipment that could legitimately be described as antique to run them. Sorry but I just don’t get that. If you want to run one of these then don’t be a dinosaur.

 

 If I have caused offence in my expression then I do apologise. I make no apologies for the opinion and facts.

[Legend]

Disappointed it’s coreless  and it certainly wasn’t mentioned at the point of ordering  back in Feb 2018 . However, I had begun to think that it would be coreless when the 94xx contained one and I knew the Precedent was going to be Coreless .So I’ve taken out my electronic track cleaner , which works with all my other models to facilitate this . I have Gaugemaster DS controllers , hopefully these OK .  If it runs like a bag of spanner’s it’ll be going straight back to Rails , regardless of the fact I do want this model . Being able to run it is fundamental  and I would say the fact it wasn’t listed as coreless at the point of order is also the fundamental reason you should get a full refund if not running satisfactorily .  However here’s hoping for the best 

[cessna152towser]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

I know it’s difficult but it’s now the third decade of the 21st C and many exquisite new models are either here or imminently expected yet we srill choose to use electronic equipment that could legitimately be described as antique to run them. Sorry but I just don’t get that. If you want to run one of these then don’t be a dinosaur.

 

 If I have caused offence in my expression then I do apologise.

No offence taken, nor apology needed and you raise some valid points.   In my case though, many of my Hornby-Dublo and Tri-ang locos are over fifty years old and might not take kindly to modern control equipment.  I find the HM2000 a reasonable compromise which allows me to run some recent models alongside my classics.

Edited November 21, 2021 by cessna152towser

[Kaput]

Getting awfully close to the end of November and still no word on whether they are nearly here or not....

[AY Mod]

9 minutes ago, Kaput said:

Getting awfully close to the end of November and still no word on whether they are nearly here or not....

 

They're not far away, towards the end of their journey. However, that can be subject to last minute changes at the moment thanks to bigger issues.

[E100]

Somewhat off topic but...

...if you have an electronic track cleaner you could in theory set up a simple switch that allows for a bypass or for it to be in use depending on what's on the layout and even a small isolated section for your coreless locos to sit on.

 

Back to the topic: I do wish RoS would give us some advanced warning of when they are taking the money as I have 2 on order! I'm yet to be convinced that the tender and cab supports are the deal breakers they are for some - though I do empathise.

Edited November 22, 2021 by E100

[Ian Hargrave]

12 hours ago, Legend said:

Disappointed it’s coreless  and it certainly wasn’t mentioned at the point of ordering  back in Feb 2018 . However, I had begun to think that it would be coreless when the 94xx contained one and I knew the Precedent was going to be Coreless .So I’ve taken out my electronic track cleaner , which works with all my other models to facilitate this . I have Gaugemaster DS controllers , hopefully these OK .  If it runs like a bag of spanner’s it’ll be going straight back to Rails , regardless of the fact I do want this model . Being able to run it is fundamental  and I would say the fact it wasn’t listed as coreless at the point of order is also the fundamental reason you should get a full refund if not running satisfactorily .  However here’s hoping for the best 

And that’s an equally valid point.  I suggest in the first instance you contact Gaugemaster for their advice.They should be able to help you.At a guess,you should be ok with those.

 

Second point with regard to advance notification of motor type :  Bachmann is Chinese owned .Bachmann UK may have designed the model but may have no control or prior knowledge  over the type of motor that the factory choose to use. They may not ultimately have known and it may at a guess be that they were  at the mercy of supplies or motors either stocked or specified in China.Hence no advance notification.We have to bear in mind that the Bachmann company is structured differently from others and supplies and circumstances may have changed since tooling etc.

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Ian Hargrave
Syntax

[Ian Hargrave]

Just logged on to the Gaugemaster website. The DS is the controller I have and I’ve used it successfully with both types of motor for well over 20 years. I couldn’t check at home as I’m still in hospital so am diverting myself with RMWEB to pass the time. I think their controllers carry a lifetime warranty. 
 

  I have avoided electronic track cleaners being advised by an experienced modeller that they have a reputation for burning out motors

[Ian Hargrave]

58 minutes ago, E100 said:

Somewhat off topic but...

...if you have an electronic track cleaner you could in theory set up a simple switch that allows for a bypass or for it to be in use depending on what's on the layout and even a small isolated section for your coreless locos to sit on.

 

Back to the topic: I do wish RoS would give us some advanced warning of when they are taking the money as I have 2 on order! I'm yet to be convinced that the tender and cab supports are the deal breakers they are for some - though I do empathise.

The answer to that is RoS may not have known. See my post above.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Ian Hargrave
Accuracy

[Legend]

45 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Just logged on to the Gaugemaster website. The DS is the controller I have and I’ve used it successfully with both types of motor for well over 20 years. I couldn’t check at home as I’m still in hospital so am diverting myself with RMWEB to pass the time. I think their controllers carry a lifetime warranty. 
 

  I have avoided electronic track cleaners being advised by an experienced modeller that they have a reputation for burning out motors

 

Thanks Ian , thats reassuring .  Certainly all other models I have run succesfully with my set up , the latest was the Crimson Compound which is now very smooth . Not sure what motors in that one . The DS I have must now be 25 years old . I have been contemplating getting a Morley controller as I see in Oscar Paisleys YouTube channel that he has succesfully used one to control older Hornby/ Tri-ang models . I still run my older locos (the oldest dates from 1965) right up to present day . The Bachmann Compound and Heljan 86 are my latest locos . Never had any issues in controlling old or new . Hopefully the advent of coreless motors on my railway (got the Precedent on order too )wont change that .

 

Anyway, thanks for looking that up and posting . Hope all is going well with you in hospital . Wishing you the best.

[Black 5 Bear]

17 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Thanks Ian , thats reassuring .  Certainly all other models I have run succesfully with my set up , the latest was the Crimson Compound which is now very smooth . Not sure what motors in that one . The DS I have must now be 25 years old . I have been contemplating getting a Morley controller as I see in Oscar Paisleys YouTube channel that he has succesfully used one to control older Hornby/ Tri-ang models . I still run my older locos (the oldest dates from 1965) right up to present day . The Bachmann Compound and Heljan 86 are my latest locos . Never had any issues in controlling old or new . Hopefully the advent of coreless motors on my railway (got the Precedent on order too )wont change that .

 

Anyway, thanks for looking that up and posting . Hope all is going well with you in hospital . Wishing you the best.

Russell,

The Morley Vector is an excellent controller for the money. I've had mine for 3yrs with no issues. Good choice !

[E100]

I have a feeling we should be hearing about these very soon. Rails have just had their big Bachmann delivery. If not then it could be a fair wait.

[Legend]

1 hour ago, E100 said:

I have a feeling we should be hearing about these very soon. Rails have just had their big Bachmann delivery. If not then it could be a fair wait.

 I think that was mainstream 150s 20s and Double  Fairlies that other shops seem to be getting about now  . Still hoping I get mine before Christmas along with the Precedent 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Legend

[sparaxis]

On 21/11/2021 at 05:43, No Decorum said:

One would think that. We are warned that coreless motors should not be used with feedback controllers or electronic track cleaners. If the only controller you have is a feedback controller, then, as I see it, you need to buy a new controller. Alternatively, fit a decoder to your locos equipped with coreless motors. You will also need to disconnect your track cleaner or fit a switch to it and remember to use it.

 

The reason a coreless motor is chosen is because it is small and possibly also because it is cheaper. However, Hornby has produced small locos with small conventional motors. If you want a particular model which happens to have a coreless motor, there are workarounds. It isn’t ideal but it’s what we’ve got.

 

Perhaps it’s a little like adopting DCC. Models without decoders shouldn’t be put on DCC energised track but there are workarounds.

Coreless motors are high efficiency, compact and without cogging. Why wouldn't you want to use them if the price is right? Most of the elderly "feedback" controllers out there were designed to deal with beasts like X04s or plastic fantastic pancake motors. There are some very good iron cored motors out there, but many of them will choke on a 40 year old controller as well. (Case in point, some of the motors in Rivarossi steam locos.)

 

Running at 12V, a modern rare-earth magnet iron cored motor may have a back emf of 10V for example, compared with 6-7V of an X04. If the controller circuitry is expecting 6-7V and gets 10V, things can get very weird.

[Als Yard]

Rails have said that they should be expecting the engines next week.

[Legend]

In the virtual exhibition Phil Parker is discussing imminent models and apparently they are due at Bachmann next week. And they are hoping we will get them by Christmas . Also applies to the Precedent 

[Ian Hargrave]

23 hours ago, Legend said:

In the virtual exhibition Phil Parker is discussing imminent models and apparently they are due at Bachmann next week. And they are hoping we will get them by Christmas . Also applies to the Precedent 

As I had a phone call earlier today asking for updated c.c. details for it that’s probably correct .All happening at once with the W1 appearing today from Hornby.We’ve wished for years for models to appear for Xmas but Bank balances all over this forum will be howling “ Be careful for what you wish “..Never mind it’s hopefully a good end to a lousy year…..well perhaps not everyone has had that…...Very much delighted they are coming soon..

[JonathonAG]

So, after a phone call over three weeks ago (like others) to ensure that current details on my account are still correct, payment has went out today.

 

No email from Rails to say today would be the intended day of payment, nor any email to say that the models have arrived and will be dispatched.  Rather odd way of working.  Whenever I've held a pre order with other establisments, I have then received a phone call when the model has been ready to dispatch and money taken then.

 

Just as a cautionary heads up for anybody who may want to check their bank account today.

 

*Edit at 1545 : Should also add that, through the pre order page on Rails of Sheffield personal account section, the balance paid has not been updated to reflect the above.

Edited December 8, 2021 by JonathonAG

[Paul_sterling]

22 minutes ago, JonathonAG said:

So, after a phone call over three weeks ago (like others) to ensure that current details on my account are still correct, payment has went out today.

 

No email from Rails to say today would be the intended day of payment, nor any email to say that the models have arrived and will be dispatched.  Rather odd way of working.  Whenever I've held a pre order with other establisments, I have then received a phone call when the model has been ready to dispatch and money taken then.

 

Just as a cautionary heads up for anybody who may want to check their bank account today.

I wonder if that's due to these being a ready committed purchase because of the £30 deposit? 

 

Either way a notification would have been nice for you. I've not heard anything either way, but it'll come when it comes. 

[E100]

Yeah, I'd much prefer an email saying payment to be taken tomorrow. If it means I get my models a day or 2 late then so be it.

 

That being said I've been able to upgrade the second of my two to sound and then combine the two deliveries into one saving £4!

[Paul_sterling]

50 minutes ago, E100 said:

Yeah, I'd much prefer an email saying payment to be taken tomorrow. If it means I get my models a day or 2 late then so be it.

 

That being said I've been able to upgrade the second of my two to sound and then combine the two deliveries into one saving £4!

If I'd known it was likely to be now, I'd have held off on an order last week and combined those for postage, better for environment ha. 

 

P

[Northmoor MPD]

17 hours ago, E100 said:

Yeah, I'd much prefer an email saying payment to be taken tomorrow. If it means I get my models a day or 2 late then so be it.

 

That being said I've been able to upgrade the second of my two to sound and then combine the two deliveries into one saving £4!

I was thinking the same! I was taken by surprise when a notification came through telling me the £173.50 had been taken without any prior warning. I’d of quite liked to have seen the finished model images we were promised to before committing the rest of the cash! Not to worry if it’s not up to spec it’ll just mean the postie man has two trips to do! 

[JohnR]

Just checked my credit card - no payment out yet..... 

[amdaley]

Due to arrive in the next day or two according to Rails. 

[GNR Dave]

My Paypal payment for the balance (blue as built) was taken yesterday afternoon.