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RAILS ANNOUNCE CALEY 812 CLASS 0-6-0s


Andy Y
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Well I signed up for this back in Feb 2018 at Model Rail Scotland . I enquired on both Rails and Bachmann stands and was told 18 months to delivery . I chuckled at the time, aware of Bachmanns track record, thinking I hope I get it before I retire . It might just make it . 

 

Rails do seem to have a strange way of promoting this loco . For a long time it  ominously disappeared from their adverts then it reappeared and in the very latest edition of Hornby magazine , their advert makes no mention of it . A5, "Victory" The Fell GT3, Precedent , V2  many others , all there except the 812. Very strange .   Could it be they've sold out ?  Difficult to believe on the black versions . It does seem odd . I was hoping they were on a container heading this way . Looks like my LMS coaches from Hattons deferred until next summer , on the other hand I have an Accurascale Deltic  which should also be on final approach  along with Bachmann Precedent  and LMS Compound.    To be honest I've kind of given up , resigned to these models arriving when they arrive . I suppose the pandemic has helped put a different perspective on it. 

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6 hours ago, Legend said:

Well I signed up for this back in Feb 2018 at Model Rail Scotland . I enquired on both Rails and Bachmann stands and was told 18 months to delivery . I chuckled at the time, aware of Bachmanns track record, thinking I hope I get it before I retire . It might just make it . 

 

Rails do seem to have a strange way of promoting this loco . For a long time it  ominously disappeared from their adverts then it reappeared and in the very latest edition of Hornby magazine , their advert makes no mention of it . A5, "Victory" The Fell GT3, Precedent , V2  many others , all there except the 812. Very strange .   Could it be they've sold out ?  Difficult to believe on the black versions . It does seem odd . I was hoping they were on a container heading this way . Looks like my LMS coaches from Hattons deferred until next summer , on the other hand I have an Accurascale Deltic  which should also be on final approach  along with Bachmann Precedent  and LMS Compound.    To be honest I've kind of given up , resigned to these models arriving when they arrive . I suppose the pandemic has helped put a different perspective on it. 


Agreed, the marketing strategy and lack of information thereafter seems very disjointed.  Having went off with a bang at Model Rail Scotland, the update thereafter has fizzled and the latest information regarding transportation from China has come from Bachmann's own Collectors Club magazine, not from Rails themselves. 

As we move further and further towards the Deposit and Reserve method, surely those companies should feel obliged to give semi regular updates regarding the product being purchased.  As it stands, Bachmann have said in their magazine that it is on it's way from China.  When should I be expecting Rails to come knocking regarding paying the outstanding bill on my reservations?  If I weren't on this forum, I wouldn't know that the models are even in transportation.  Decency would hope that the sellers would give as much notice as possible to the client of when that final stage is approaching, especially considering the sums of money involved aren't small. 
From the side of the sellers, the current situation risks surprising the buyer and resulting in possible cancellations or requests to hold on to the model until a more convenient time to pay, affecting the cashflow expectations based off current deposits and reservations.

Edited by JonathonAG
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If it was "in transit" in early August, I would have thought a 6-8 week shipment time to the UK, and then maybe another 1-2 weeks for Rails to receive them?

 

Just wish there was some better official comms about this.

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5 hours ago, JonathonAG said:

From the side of the sellers, the current situation risks surprising the buyer and resulting in possible cancellations or requests to hold on to the model until a more convenient time to pay, affecting the cashflow expectations based off current deposits and reservations.

Personally, if I was pre-ordering a lot of items I would be putting money aside every month based on the original estimated delivery dates and what can be afforded - that way no problems when it comes time to pay and you might even have earned some pennies (literally given the 0.05% interest rates).

 

I've only got one item on order and it's already paid for (RevolutioN 128) but if I was ordering ahead and I wasn't sure I'd have the funds when needed I would start saving.

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18 hours ago, tractionman said:

 

 

I have a copy of the excellent book 'Caledonian in LMS Days' by Ferguson and Stirling which has early grouping images of CR liveried locos hauling LMS branded rolling stock, so scope for a 1923-5 theme for a layout is possible a little bit sooner, if that appeals (as it does to me!).

 

All the best,

 

Keith

 

 

 

Yep. I started buying the Caley Coaches 57 footer kits just for that reason. If I finish them in LMS livery they worked all over the LMS system after a while as many of them were just lumped into the pool of coaches.

 

But you would also still have a few CR liveried ones knocking about seeing as they were brand new. I'm wondering how long it took for a carriage built in 1922 to get a repaint? It wouldn't have been a priority.

 

If you build the preserved pair then you can even run them in the BR era.

 

http://www.caleycoaches.co.uk/corridor.php#

 

I don't fancy painting the CR carriage livery though.... 

 

 

Jason

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Update from Bachmann:

 

We are pleased to report that production is complete on all our exclusive models of the Caledonian 812, LNWR Precedents and LNER V2s.

 

Due to the current shipping / container issues happening in China they are simply waiting for a container for all three models to shipped to the UK. A container is booked towards the end of the month. This means that if all goes to plan we are likely to see the models arrive with us towards the end of November.

 

Further updates will follow once shipped and we should be able to share the ship tracking information so all can see the current location of the models.

 

Order books are almost full so pre-ordering is highly recommended. A big thank you to everyone who has ordered so far.

 

Oliver

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Oliver Rails said:

Update from Bachmann:

Due to the current shipping / container issues happening in China they are simply waiting for a container for all three models to shipped to the UK. A container is booked towards the end of the month. This means that if all goes to plan we are likely to see the models arrive with us towards the end of November.

 

Thanks for the update Oliver. 

 

Quote

Order books are almost full so pre-ordering is highly recommended. A big thank you to everyone who has ordered so far.

 

I'm thinking of adding one to my order, so I guess I better do it soon! Just got to juggle the cards. 

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18 hours ago, Oliver Rails said:

Update from Bachmann:

 

We are pleased to report that production is complete on all our exclusive models of the Caledonian 812, LNWR Precedents and LNER V2s.

 

Due to the current shipping / container issues happening in China they are simply waiting for a container for all three models to shipped to the UK. A container is booked towards the end of the month. This means that if all goes to plan we are likely to see the models arrive with us towards the end of November.

 

Further updates will follow once shipped and we should be able to share the ship tracking information so all can see the current location of the models.

 

Order books are almost full so pre-ordering is highly recommended. A big thank you to everyone who has ordered so far.

 

Oliver

 

 

The thing is, when three buses arrive at once, we don’t have to pay three tickets. (No jibes about not having to buy all three locos, please!) If I recall correctly, Bachmann used to try to avoid releasing too much at once.

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43 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

The thing is, when three buses arrive at once, we don’t have to pay three tickets. (No jibes about not having to buy all three locos, please!) If I recall correctly, Bachmann used to try to avoid releasing too much at once.

 

Over the last 10 years they certainly succeeded !

 

Its just unfortunate , I think really exascerbated by the container shortage / shipping issues .  In addition to Precedent and 812 I'm also expecting a Crimson Compound  which I think was in the summer announcment and due imminently . Not sure whats happened to that , again probably affected by Container availability .    Theres also going to be an Accurascale Deltic arriving  shortly I hope . 4 new toys to play with !

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1 minute ago, Legend said:

 

Over the last 10 years they certainly succeeded !

 

Its just unfortunate , I think really exascerbated by the container shortage / shipping issues .  In addition to Precedent and 812 I'm also expecting a Crimson Compound  which I think was in the summer announcment and due imminently . Not sure whats happened to that , again probably affected by Container availability .    Theres also going to be an Accurascale Deltic arriving  shortly I hope . 4 new toys to play with !

Oh yes, the Compound. :( I’m beginning to get over my indignation at the cancellation/suspension of Bachmann’s Parallel Scot. If the wraps are dropped and one appears, I’ll want one! In case Bachmann is reading this, here’s a reminder: 6130 The West Yorkshire Regiment. :offtopic: Sorry.

 

6130 Royal Scot “The West Yorkshire Regiment” (2).jpg

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1 hour ago, Legend said:

 

Over the last 10 years they certainly succeeded !

 

Its just unfortunate , I think really exascerbated by the container shortage / shipping issues .  In addition to Precedent and 812 I'm also expecting a Crimson Compound  which I think was in the summer announcment and due imminently . Not sure whats happened to that , again probably affected by Container availability .    Theres also going to be an Accurascale Deltic arriving  shortly I hope . 4 new toys to play with !


As I am given to understand,the container issue is crucial to supply.Firstly with availability and secondly with ever spiralling costs which obviously is having a knock on effect and is likely not to improve.More rending of sackcloth and ashes .:(

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1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

Oh yes, the Compound. :( I’m beginning to get over my indignation at the cancellation/suspension of Bachmann’s Parallel Scot. If the wraps are dropped and one appears, I’ll want one! In case Bachmann is reading this, here’s a reminder: 6130 The West Yorkshire Regiment. :offtopic: Sorry.

 

6130 Royal Scot “The West Yorkshire Regiment” (2).jpg


A very nice thought indeed. Which examples made it into BR green ?  I know 46148 did ( spotted Colwyn Bay August 1952 ) and that 46137 was the last to receive the Stanier boiler not long after.

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On 09/09/2021 at 11:46, Ian Hargrave said:


A very nice thought indeed. Which examples made it into BR green ?  I know 46148 did ( spotted Colwyn Bay August 1952 ) and that 46137 was the last to receive the Stanier boiler not long after.

 

46137 in a finish which rather shames Hornby’s later models of Rebuilt Scots.

 

46137.jpg

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On 09/09/2021 at 10:07, No Decorum said:

Oh yes, the Compound. :( I’m beginning to get over my indignation at the cancellation/suspension of Bachmann’s Parallel Scot. If the wraps are dropped and one appears, I’ll want one! In case Bachmann is reading this, here’s a reminder: 6130 The West Yorkshire Regiment. :offtopic: Sorry.

 

6130 Royal Scot “The West Yorkshire Regiment” (2).jpg

IMGP4158.JPG.88205c5e1d2d444f95dd6de214ed4814.JPG

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42 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Change of identity?

Nope, can't remember whether it was standard Bachmann issue, or a retailers commission. I might have changed the tender as most Bachmann models came with the small tender, but by late 30s nearly all had larger ones (swapped with jubilees). I also got pigged off with Bachmann's shelving of the new models, so changed the chassis’ on all my 8 red ones.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 06/09/2021 at 13:58, Als Yard said:

Well there goes hope for that, I guess the only coaches I can run with my 812 is the old 4 wheeled Hornby Caledonian coaches or old Triang Caledonian coaches. If I get desperate I might just paint the newer Hornby 4 wheeled coaches in a Caledonian livery.

image.png.d7b2f9671d83cb505890ad1b7b596f5d.png

 

Lucky me was able to get "The Caledonian" train pack with the Caledonian single and coaches, guess I don't have to worry about it anymore.image.png.65105899b3f63790f2900b5c0a58ae2a.png

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2 minutes ago, Als Yard said:

Lucky me was able to get "The Caledonian" train pack with the Caledonian single and coaches, guess I don't have to worry about it anymore.image.png.65105899b3f63790f2900b5c0a58ae2a.png

Sorry to rain on your parade, but the coaches sold in ‘The Caledonian’ train pack are the Triang Mk1 with ‘Grampian(esque)’ sides with a better paint job than the original release. It’s doubtful that Caledonian ‘No123’ ever hauled a rake ‘Grampian’ coaches. Racing single wheelers and heavyweight 12 wheelers don’t really go together.
The so called ‘Caledonian 4 wheel coach’ is an S&DJR body on a crude brake van underframe.

At least Hattons Genesis coaches are honest in not claiming to be actual models of anything, just nice  ‘period coaches’ with excellently executed paintwork. They’ll look OK behind an ‘812 Class’.

A fitted express freight or a rake of 45’ Caledonian coaches would be the most realistic type of train for a Caledonian liveried ‘812 Class’.

 

Brian.

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The sides of the Tri-ang Caledonian coaches are exceptionally accurate for ready to run models of their era - it is the roofs and the ends that leave a lot (to put it mildly) to be desired, due to Tri-ang economising by using existing products, in this case BR Mark I parts.  I'm pretty certain too that Tri-ang intended the coaches not to represent the Grampian stock, but rather the 57 foot 8 wheel coaches that 123 was seen hauling on rail tours in the 1960s.  If you are prepared to overlook the extra scale 8 feet in length, and the inaccurate ends and roof, a combination as above is a good representation of 123 as preserved in the 1960s.

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4 hours ago, Wolseley said:

The sides of the Tri-ang Caledonian coaches are exceptionally accurate for ready to run models of their era - it is the roofs and the ends that leave a lot (to put it mildly) to be desired, due to Tri-ang economising by using existing products, in this case BR Mark I parts.  I'm pretty certain too that Tri-ang intended the coaches not to represent the Grampian stock, but rather the 57 foot 8 wheel coaches that 123 was seen hauling on rail tours in the 1960s.  If you are prepared to overlook the extra scale 8 feet in length, and the inaccurate ends and roof, a combination as above is a good representation of 123 as preserved in the 1960s.

It’s not just the roofs and ends that leave a lot to be desired, the underframe, bogies, vehicle height and no interior make for an underwhelming coach that neither looks like a Grampian or a 57 foot coach, even the bogie centres and are wrong for a Mk1. The sides and chassis are a good starting point for scratch building a Grampian coach, as I have done. 

The easiest and most realistic rake for the 00 gauge ‘812 Class’ is the Peco  Parkside (Ratio) LMS wooden bodied  bogie iron ore wagon. Although only one was built in the end, the Caley had originally ordered 100 and built the first 20 ‘812 Class’ with air brakes as they envisaged them hauling rakes of fully fitted bogie mineral wagons (they were well ahead of there time!). The official photo of the first built ‘812 Class’ has it coupled to the only wooden bodied bogie iron ore wagon.

 

Brian.

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32222E10-8DE0-4F10-8C79-1795D4E320F4.jpeg

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Yes, after i posted my earlier comments, I did think of the inaccuracy of the underframe and, if it had occurred to me at the time I posted that, I would have mentioned it.  It does come down to how many compromises you are intending to make, and I had in mind the photograph of the Caley Single with these coaches behind it in the earlier post and, if you are going to run Tri-ang/Hornby locomotives whose tooling goes back a few decades, then you are going to be making compromises, such as the daylight (or lack of it) under the boiler and so on.  Yes, the coaches are not accurate models by present day standards, but then neither is the locomotive hauling them.  If you want a near perfect scale model, you would replace the locomotive with a London Road Models kit and the coaches with kits from Caley Coaches.

 

As for me, I'm afraid that I left the underframes and ends of my Tri-ang/Hornby Caledonian coaches as is (I may go back and change the ends at some point, but I have plenty of other projects to finish first) but I did repaint them, as the colours varied quite a bit, and I did remove the detail from the roofs and fit new rainstrips and Havoc ventilators - yes, I know that the last few of Pickersgill's version of the 57' coaches had torpedo ventilators but, to me, the Havoc ventilators look more Caledonian and, as I was replacing the ventilators, I would rather replace them with something that is not likely to draw too much attention to other inaccuracies.  They should look the part behind my GEM Cardean, which sits on a Tri-ang B12 chassis.

 

I must admit that, probably because most of what I run is vintage equipment from the 1950s, I hadn't even given a thought to the lack of interiors.

 

It will be interesting to see how much longer it will be before the 812 model arrives.  I pre-ordered one just after they were announced and it has been rather a long time.  I haven't given a thought to what I'll put behind it though but, as I ordered a blue model, it may end up hauling passenger rather than goods stock.

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Personally I don’t think any of the Caledonian(esque) rtr rolling stock from the past will be good enough without some serious work done to it to look OK next to the forthcoming ‘812  Class’ release. Hopefully the Hattons ‘Genesis’ Caledonian coaches will look OK with an as built No.828 even if not exactly prototypical. All the later liveried versions have various choices of rtr rolling stock.

More damage to my wallet!

 

Brian.

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7 hours ago, turbos said:

It’s not just the roofs and ends that leave a lot to be desired, the underframe, bogies, vehicle height and no interior make for an underwhelming coach that neither looks like a Grampian or a 57 foot coach, even the bogie centres and are wrong for a Mk1. The sides and chassis are a good starting point for scratch building a Grampian coach, as I have done. 

The easiest and most realistic rake for the 00 gauge ‘812 Class’ is the Peco  Parkside (Ratio) LMS wooden bodied  bogie iron ore wagon. Although only one was built in the end, the Caley had originally ordered 100 and built the first 20 ‘812 Class’ with air brakes as they envisaged them hauling rakes of fully fitted bogie mineral wagons (they were well ahead of there time!). The official photo of the first built ‘812 Class’ has it coupled to the only wooden bodied bogie iron ore wagon.

 

Brian.

 

 

 

So not realistic then? That's more of a "what if" scenario than modelling something that happened.

 

I don't even think the wagon is accurate as it came from a drawing in the Roche book and ISTR has errors.

 

 

Jason

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