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RAILS ANNOUNCE CALEY 812 CLASS 0-6-0s


Andy Y
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On 02/11/2021 at 18:36, amdaley said:

I contacted Rails about the questionable details which showed up in the photos & below is the reply I received.

 

"Thank you for your email, this is only snap shots from the youtube video and not actual footage. We are hoping to release some images ourselves fairly soon.

You are welcome to cancel the preorder but as stated on the website in the terms and conditions deposits are non refundable, please let me know if you wish to go ahead with the cancellation?"

 

I will wait until I see the Rails photos before deciding whether to cancel or not.

If having seen Rails photos I am still unhappy then I will cancel.

Yes I will lose the £30 deposit but that is down to me for having trusted Rails / Bachmann to get the model right. If I do have to cancel be assured it will be the last time I will be pre ordering anything from them.

 

On a side note & to illustrate what can be done I recently purchased one of these A/001 Class  Diesel Electric locomotives from Irish Railway Models https://irishrailwaymodels.com/collections/a-class-locomotive

The level of detail & features would put other manufacturers to shame. Below I list some of the features & details.

 

Common Features:

Highly detailed OO scale model

Heavy Die-Cast metal chassis

Separately applied steel detail parts, including grab handles, steps, wipers and more

Correct height mini-tension-lock couplers with NEM socket

Five-Pole motor with two flywheels

Metal Helical Gear box for maximum performance and slow speed running

Gearing arranged so locomotive can achieve a scale top speed of 130 km/h

DCC ready with PowerPack capacitor for uninterrupted power

Two quality speakers with large sound capsules for best possible sound

Fully detailed Lighting Pack, including:

Directional lighting, DC and DCC

Marker lights can be turned off when train is coupled to loco

high beam headlight function

separately switched cab lighting and illuminated, details driver’s console

Engine bay lighting

RP25-110  OO wheels with provision for re-gauging to 21mm gauge

Rotating axlebox hubs (with alternate axlebox covers for earlier versions)

Fully sprung metal buffers

Extra fine factory-fitted pipework

Extra fine factory-fitted plastic and etched steel detail parts

Minimum Radius 438mm (2nd Radius Set-track)

Length over Buffers 203mm.

 

That was all achieved for a cost of approx £160 / €189 which shows what can be done if the will is there.

To say that the model ran like a swiss watch out of the box would be an insult to the model which I'm sure that anyone on here who has bought one will attest to.

This is the level which must be achieved if people are expected to shell out £200 with non refundable deposits.

I have no connection with this company other than a very satisfied customer.

 

 

 

I got my Deposit back on the D class so lucky there so. 

 

I've given up on mad rush of must have Pre ordering from the 'Shops' TBH. Seems to be lots of hassle...they mostly come out again at some stage... Ala APT E....

 

 

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Well I’m continuing with mine but only through gritted teeth as I really want it. But I do think it’s overpriced considering it’s a basic 0-6-0. While I’m sure Bachmann will  claim it’s an elaborate livery , it’s no more elaborate than Maude   ,Some £65 cheaper and it had `TTS ,only difference is it’s blue instead of black,

 

I understand people wanting refunds but I’ll continue with mine 

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1 hour ago, meatloaf said:

They will have to refund because Oliver Rails said you can get it refunded if the price goes up. It has so you can cancel with no panalty.

When the price was confirmed, you were asked if you wanted to 'approve the price change or cancel your pre-order'. That was the time to cancel and get the deposit back. If you approved the price change and now want to cancel, you've lost the deposit.

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I've ordered the sound fitted early BR version and managed to see it in the flesh at the Hornby show in Milton Keynes. 

 

I have to say that that the noted shortcomings were not apparent to me. I thought it looked a lovely model. It's only the close up/angled photos that show up the tender and cab issues.

 

As mine will run sideways on,  with a viewing angle of about 30 degrees above the horizontal these won't issues will not show up significantly so I'm sticking with it. 

 

On the wider issue I think this is just in keeping with the times we live in. You order things online without actually seeing them in the flesh, whether it be a loco, a hat or a pump for your pond. But I think with most things if it doesn't meet up with your expectations you send it back.

However, unlike  the GWR gas turbine loco which appears to have running issues, if the Caley loco runs properly but has a couple of design issues who decides if it's fit for purpose?

 

I think one solution could be as follows for future projects......

You place a small deposit when an item is announced, say 10%.

When the final finished prototype examples are produced the photos of these are published and, at that point, you commit to the model by paying say another 40%.

When the model is ready for dispatch  you pay the other 50%.

If you are not impressed with the prototype photos you get the 10% back.

 

I can understand companies needing commitment from potential customers but they are in business and sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate. The company only gets a refundable 10% until they get it right. But they get 50% prior to actually producing the model towards production costs.

 

Obviously if it doesn't work properly on delivery that's a different thing. 

 

....just my thoughts. 

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One query I have about the BR sound equipped version is that on Jenny’s You Tube review the loco appears to have a Westinghouse brake pump going constantly, whereas these were removed from the real engines not long after the  Grouping. It is right, of course, for the Caley blue engines. The screenshot of the instructions seems to show no way of switching this off.

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1 hour ago, Nunc said:

One query I have about the BR sound equipped version is that on Jenny’s You Tube review the loco appears to have a Westinghouse brake pump going constantly, whereas these were removed from the real engines not long after the  Grouping. It is right, of course, for the Caley blue engines. The screenshot of the instructions seems to show no way of switching this off.


Not so. Here’s a picture of the modelled loco with a Westinghouse pump in BR days:

 

https://davidheyscollection-static.myshopblocks.com/images/cm/174130c85036924dd0226a1258a9dbbe.jpg

 

OK, the model doesn’t have a pump, and I agree the screenshot doesn’t show how, but I would expect the pump sound could be turned off. (The screenshot doesn’t seem to be of the complete instructions.)

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On 07/11/2021 at 09:26, terry.ecmr said:

I can understand companies needing commitment from potential customers but they are in business and sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate.

 

That does assume that customers accept that the company that speculates is allowed to get a return on that investment. However, the number of posts on here in various threads explaining why it's important for companies to make a profit, suggests that there are plenty who don't.

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2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

That does assume that customers accept that the company that speculates is allowed to get a return on that investment. However, the number of posts on here in various threads explaining why it's important for companies to make a profit, suggests that there are plenty who don't.

Absolutely Phil. 

I'm trying to look at this from both sides.

The producer will not get much return if a high percentage of products are returned for refunds, whether or not the deposit is refunded. 

I've also floated the idea that,  once the manufacturer produces an pre production example the customer pays a further 40% to help fund the production. 

 

I know there probably isn't a solution that satisfies everyone but at the moment there appears to be a bit of an unsatisfactory situation. 

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1 hour ago, terry.ecmr said:

 

I know there probably isn't a solution that satisfies everyone but at the moment there appears to be a bit of an unsatisfactory situation. 

 

The solution is no more preorders. A model comes out and people buy or not. Of course this would dramatically slow the rate new models appear at as you'd want the income from Model A before investing in Model B, but the monthly arrival of new models is a relatively new thing and the hobby survived with 2 or 3 new announcements each year. 

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The model looks stunning, despite the compromises. Recently on another forum about a different model which had come in for some nit picking criticism, I suggested that if one was such a connoisseur that the compromises necessary in its manufacture offended then one should already have taken the time and trouble to equip oneself with the skills and attitude to remedy the perceived flaws. I think the same holds true here. I'd bet a pound to a penny, that when seen on a layout it won't be the loco that lets the show down.

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9 minutes ago, Neil said:

 I'd bet a pound to a penny, that when seen on a layout it won't be the loco that lets the show down.

 

My view entirely. If you dont mind the rails being too close together (and I dont), then you wont mind something like this.

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Seems so good and to repay the faith in it from the word go. A return  Saturday afternoon spin from Aviemore  two years ago behind her in a rake of ex BR Mk 2is fondly remembered.

      This morning I’m having an opportunity to catch up with much of the forum that I’ve been missing over the last few weeks,being stuck in the cardio unit of  the N.Staffs.after open heart valve surgery…..currently with just one feeding tube……looking at the above images is a sight to gladden the eyes.Well done  Rails who seem on a roll atm and of course our friends down the road at Barwell.

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8 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Seems so good and to repay the faith in it from the word go. A return  Saturday afternoon spin from Aviemore  two years ago behind her in a rake of ex BR Mk 2is fondly remembered.

      This morning I’m having an opportunity to catch up with much of the forum that I’ve been missing over the last few weeks,being stuck in the cardio unit of  the N.Staffs.after open heart valve surgery…..currently with just one feeding tube……looking at the above images is a sight to gladden the eyes.Well done  Rails who seem on a roll atm and of course our friends down the road at Barwell.

Kind of puts 2mm thick tender valances in perspective .  Wishing you well

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On 07/11/2021 at 09:26, terry.ecmr said:

I've ordered the sound fitted early BR version and managed to see it in the flesh at the Hornby show in Milton Keynes. 

 

I have to say that that the noted shortcomings were not apparent to me. I thought it looked a lovely model. It's only the close up/angled photos that show up the tender and cab issues.

 

As mine will run sideways on,  with a viewing angle of about 30 degrees above the horizontal these won't issues will not show up significantly so I'm sticking with it. 

 

On the wider issue I think this is just in keeping with the times we live in. You order things online without actually seeing them in the flesh, whether it be a loco, a hat or a pump for your pond. But I think with most things if it doesn't meet up with your expectations you send it back.

However, unlike  the GWR gas turbine loco which appears to have running issues, if the Caley loco runs properly but has a couple of design issues who decides if it's fit for purpose?

 

I think one solution could be as follows for future projects......

You place a small deposit when an item is announced, say 10%.

When the final finished prototype examples are produced the photos of these are published and, at that point, you commit to the model by paying say another 40%.

When the model is ready for dispatch  you pay the other 50%.

If you are not impressed with the prototype photos you get the 10% back.

 

I can understand companies needing commitment from potential customers but they are in business and sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate. The company only gets a refundable 10% until they get it right. But they get 50% prior to actually producing the model towards production costs.

 

Obviously if it doesn't work properly on delivery that's a different thing. 

 

....just my thoughts. 


T o which I will add the relevant questions of complexities of cost and operation of this . 

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